I need to automate my bale handling

[Renze]

And thanks for the link, I always enjoy chatting with you as you bring an entirely different perspective to our discussions.

that's exactly the reason i frequently visit this site: Becaue the North American perspective is so differen to ours !!

And I do follow the European farm practices quite a bit as you guys are always looking to make things more efficient which is something the OEMs here in the US have failed to do. They like to keep the same old practices and just make things bigger.

I do not fully agree with you: ploughless tillage, minimal tillage and direct drilling, are techniques that have flied over from the USA !

I think the biggest difference in the approach, is that Europe is focused on 3pt hitch implements, for shorter headlands, better weight transfer to the driven tractorwheels, etcetera.

 

[JKNY]

Hi Robert, I thought i'd throw my 2cents worth in as your situation has some similarities to mine. I also make small square baled hay for sale - in Central NY. I have been haying 33 years- since i was a kid. Another similarity- 10 years ago this time I was delivering a load of hay when the bales I was standingg on shifted and I fell head first to the ground from the height of the top of a kicker wagon. The fall broke 1 vertebrae in my neck and 3 consecutive ones in the middle of my back (which were "fragmented") .It took me most of the rest of the year to heal up ( no surgery)- couldnt cut any second cutting etc. so I sympathize with your back problem. Back to your question- I have a close neighbor who used a small NH bale wagon - it had the single bale unload and he would run the bales onto an elevator with it. He still had to guide most of them on the elevator. When tipping a loaded bale wagon off inside a bulding, you need a high (14'?) clearance. You will still have room for 4-5 tiers of hay on top after the stack is tipped off - so you will still be putting some hay in the hard way - or you will be wasting alot of space/ need a much bigger building . Stack wagons require a tight,firm, uniform bale. And of course you will still be loading out the bales by hand . I dont have firsthand experience with a grapple/accumulator system but if I was to go away from kicker wagons That is probably what I'd do. The drawback to them I see is - like the NH wagon, you still have to go back and load the hay off the ground, to be efficeint you may need 2 loader tractors with grapples ( one to load in field, one to unload)if you want to do alot all at once - and have help. The advantage is you can use the grapple to load hay out of the barn too. If you can get a grapple to work with a NH Stackwagon stack, you might have the best of both worlds. I hope your back keeps coming along - good luck with your haying. I finished up baling first cut -all but a small piece last Sat - just beat the rain and its been raining every day since!

 

[Robert_in_NY]

that's exactly the reason i frequently visit this site: Becaue the North American perspective is so differen to ours !!




I do not fully agree with you: ploughless tillage, minimal tillage and direct drilling, are techniques that have flied over from the USA !

I think the biggest difference in the approach, is that Europe is focused on 3pt hitch implements, for shorter headlands, better weight transfer to the driven tractorwheels, etcetera.

The approach is my main thing. A front 3pt and pto seems like a no brainer but it is only now becoming an option on larger tractors. I was spraying the vineyard yesterday thinking how nice it would be to have my new tractor equiped with a front 3pt and pto so I could mow the vineyard as I spray. The tractor would have the power so I would be saving a trip thru the vineyard. Plus it would be a lot easier to see where I have been as the row would be mowed. However, only one vineyard tractor has the front 3pt and pto option here that I know of so far and that is a New Holland TN95FA. I like blue tractors but my current relationship with my local dealer isn't the best so I would have to buy elsewhere making any warranty work a hassle. And to my knowledge, I can't get the front 3pt and pto option on the Case-IH JX1095N which is the same tractor (minus supersteer). So I kind of understand it as they would have to design a new system for the Case-IH version but still, it is worth it.

Most of our implements and practices are a one step at a time process where as you guys have embraced front 3pt's so you can use multiple implements and accomplish twice as much with every pass. I love the pics of the plow setups there with the plow on one end and a crumbler on the other to start breaking down the plowed ground. So hopefully in another 15 years we will have more options here to become more efficient.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Hi Robert, I thought i'd throw my 2cents worth in as your situation has some similarities to mine. I also make small square baled hay for sale - in Central NY. I have been haying 33 years- since i was a kid. Another similarity- 10 years ago this time I was delivering a load of hay when the bales I was standingg on shifted and I fell head first to the ground from the height of the top of a kicker wagon. The fall broke 1 vertebrae in my neck and 3 consecutive ones in the middle of my back (which were "fragmented") .It took me most of the rest of the year to heal up ( no surgery)- couldnt cut any second cutting etc. so I sympathize with your back problem. Back to your question- I have a close neighbor who used a small NH bale wagon - it had the single bale unload and he would run the bales onto an elevator with it. He still had to guide most of them on the elevator. When tipping a loaded bale wagon off inside a bulding, you need a high (14'?) clearance. You will still have room for 4-5 tiers of hay on top after the stack is tipped off - so you will still be putting some hay in the hard way - or you will be wasting alot of space/ need a much bigger building . Stack wagons require a tight,firm, uniform bale. And of course you will still be loading out the bales by hand . I dont have firsthand experience with a grapple/accumulator system but if I was to go away from kicker wagons That is probably what I'd do. The drawback to them I see is - like the NH wagon, you still have to go back and load the hay off the ground, to be efficeint you may need 2 loader tractors with grapples ( one to load in field, one to unload)if you want to do alot all at once - and have help. The advantage is you can use the grapple to load hay out of the barn too. If you can get a grapple to work with a NH Stackwagon stack, you might have the best of both worlds. I hope your back keeps coming along - good luck with your haying. I finished up baling first cut -all but a small piece last Sat - just beat the rain and its been raining every day since!

There are grapples made for the NH stack wagons. You just need to buy the one for the size stack your stack wagon makes. So then you can use the grapple to fill in the top of the barn as well as load out customers trailers. The only real downside I see to a stack wagon is that they are more complicated then an accumulator. Not that they are too complicated but more parts equals more maintenance and the greater possiblity of a break down.

I am glad to hear you are doing ok after your injury. I always worry about the kids who work for me as some of them do not think when they are working around these wagons. I try to explain things to them but they don't want to listen. I use to get upset but now I don't worry as much. The one thing they refuse to listen to me about is if I am hand stacking a kicker wagon. I use the thrower to put the bale close to them and they just stack the wagon a few layers at a time (no sense fighting gravity when the thrower will put the bale anywhere I want). So I tell them, stay on the upwind side of the wagon. I will adjust the thrower away from them so they are not getting covered with hay chaff when the bale is ejected. Do you think they will listen? They actually stay down wind of the thrower. Changing sides so they keep getting covered every pass

 

[Renze]

I can't get the front 3pt and pto option on the Case-IH JX1095N which is the same tractor (minus supersteer).

try looking at the worldwide specialist (from Holland, off course) www.zuidberg.nl
These guys are the fore runner in front 3pt hitches, and sell OEM to many big brands. If they dont have it, nobody has

I love the pics of the plow setups there with the plow on one end and a crumbler on the other to start breaking down the plowed ground. So hopefully in another 15 years we will have more options here to become more efficient.

Hmm... The setup you describe (rear mounted reversible plough - front mounted packer, on a swing arm) is far from ideal:
When i was at a local contractor (i can rent their machine shop for a crate of beer at friday night ) i saw a home built swing arm rusting behind the shop. I asked why it was there, built but unused:

They told me that they saw the idea at another agricultural contractor, and decided they wanted that too, and started the build. But before they had finished theirs, they heard that the tractor of that other contractor, had broken in half because it couldnt withstand the lateral forces !
As soon as they heard that, they threw it in the back of the yard and didnt look at it again....

Front mounted ploughs isnt the way to go either: again, this causes lateral forces that many tractors cant take.

The front 3pt hitch comes out best with a (steered) packer, or a harrow, when the seeder is on the back of the tractor.
Also popular among contractors, is the combination of front and rear mowers. It is very manoueverable for the smaller fields in my region (with lots of tree fencerows) whilst maintaining a high work output because of the 6 meter working width.

 

[Renze]

Robert,

I found the website of dutch small bales collector and grab specialist Meijer:

http://www.meijerholland.com/prod/index_kbsh.html

There is some interesting information on it, about stacking and loading. Just click on the individual pictures.
They advise a ground drag collector for sand and clay soils, and the hydraulic, carrying collector for peat soils.
When the rear gate of the bale wagon leans over at 30 to 45° and the bales are put against it, it automatically gives a stack with interconnecting bales (because they are stacked half over half like a brick wall)

It doesnt put bales on their side.
What people do here, is putting old fenceposts or cargo pallets under the hay stack to keep them off the ground.

 

[matt21]

The approach is my main thing. A front 3pt and pto seems like a no brainer but it is only now becoming an option on larger tractors. I was spraying the vineyard yesterday thinking how nice it would be to have my new tractor equiped with a front 3pt and pto so I could mow the vineyard as I spray. The tractor would have the power so I would be saving a trip thru the vineyard. Plus it would be a lot easier to see where I have been as the row would be mowed. However, only one vineyard tractor has the front 3pt and pto option here that I know of so far and that is a New Holland TN95FA. I like blue tractors but my current relationship with my local dealer isn't the best so I would have to buy elsewhere making any warranty work a hassle. And to my knowledge, I can't get the front 3pt and pto option on the Case-IH JX1095N which is the same tractor (minus supersteer). So I kind of understand it as they would have to design a new system for the Case-IH version but still, it is worth it.

Most of our implements and practices are a one step at a time process where as you guys have embraced front 3pt's so you can use multiple implements and accomplish twice as much with every pass. I love the pics of the plow setups there with the plow on one end and a crumbler on the other to start breaking down the plowed ground. So hopefully in another 15 years we will have more options here to become more efficient.

Do you have any Deutz tractor dealers in your area? There's a dealer within 10 miles of me that sells a few. They can come with a front 3-pt and pto as an option. They are some of the nicest and most durable tractors out there. A dairy farmer down the road from me owns 3 deutz tractors. He's owned quite a few of the other brands in the past, but once he got his first Deutz he never went back. That's all he will buy now. Hardly ever has a problem with any of them.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Do you have any Deutz tractor dealers in your area? There's a dealer within 10 miles of me that sells a few. They can come with a front 3-pt and pto as an option. They are some of the nicest and most durable tractors out there. A dairy farmer down the road from me owns 3 deutz tractors. He's owned quite a few of the other brands in the past, but once he got his first Deutz he never went back. That's all he will buy now. Hardly ever has a problem with any of them.

To my knowledge, Deutz does not make a vineyard/orchard tractor. I need a tractor 54" wide with at least 75 hp and cab, fwa and preferably front 3pt and pto. Deere, Claas, CNH, MF, and Same/Landini have narrow tractors designed for vineyards and orchards. I just need to research them more to see who has what currently and if any of them have front 3pts and pto besides the New Holland.

 

[tjkadar]

Check out: Laforge Front 3-Point Systems and see if they have front PTOs and Hitches for the tractor you're looking at. Zuidberg Frontline Systems - Frontlinkage and Front PTO Systems also makes front hitches and PTOs for several different makes and models.

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Check out: Laforge Front 3-Point Systems and see if they have front PTOs and Hitches for the tractor you're looking at. Zuidberg Frontline Systems - Frontlinkage and Front PTO Systems also makes front hitches and PTOs for several different makes and models.

Thanks for the link, Laforge has a front hitch and pto system for the John Deere 5025N series and it looks like a factory setup. The only front 3pt system I have seen before for a narrow tractor is a big, ugly bulky system that isn't very handy for too much (it was on a 5020N). I don't know what the Laforge hitch and pto will cost yet but it is a nice option now. Hopefully I will be able to find hitches to work with some of the other narrow tractors as well. Thanks again.