I Still Hate My Tractor

[Bluegill2]

I've been running tractors over 30 years and never had one drop 1100 rpm unload, or loaded. 2-3 hundred rpm is the most ever had one drop and it usually takes a good load to do that...

Something is wrong with the tractor!

 

[Bluegill2]

Dealer said they dyno every tractor that is sold new.

Fred

They need to check yours and find out why the rpm drops so much when hydraulics are used...

 

[Bluegill2]

I don't think we are getting the full story. He said the dealer dynoed it and it made within 5% of advertised power.

Sent from my GT-P3113 using TractorByNet

Something is definitely missing here!

 

[The Fred]

Highly unlikely Aaron, remember I already tried a fueling increase of 1/2 turn. It smoked badly under load. It was 80 degrees that day and I had my 8 foot road grader on the hitch (IN THE AIR mind you) not engaged in the dirt. Medium range (not high for hill like early posted to p I s s those who thought I had no idea what I was doing off) low on the hydro lever; the thing smoked like all getout. I could smell the overfueling in the cab with the A/C on. I still feel more air will do wonders for this thing.

The hydraulics never run hot but like earlier stated if you are pulling a slight load and hit the FEL lever the Rs drop like a rock. I DO have the pressure up to 3000 on the hydraulics, removing that .050" shim is a 5 minute job.

Whoops looks like I voided the turbo warranty too. Wish me luck.
Fred



How many of you had a boat that you wasted way too much money on? Or snowmobiles, bikes, uneeded junk. This is my boat.
Kubota.....an orange hole in the dirt where I throw my money

 

[ovrszd]

This HP discussion is so hard to have logically with guys scattered all over the States and ideas of what's normal scattered all over the HP scale.

With that said, when I use my Brother's L3240 I get aggravated very quickly. For example, if I'm on any kind of uphill incline, running 2K RPM or more, in mid range or above, and use any hydraulics it immediately loses power and slows ground speed. First instinct is to jab the HST pedal to the floor. That will stall it completely if you don't have the anti-stall engaged.

So, next instinct is to pull the hand throttle wide open. You get no response whatsoever and if no other conditions are changed you will continue down the road to engine stall.

So, next instinct is to come off the HST pedal and relieve the load on the engine by stopping hydraulic use or whatever else you were doing to stall it in the first place.

By this time I am swearing outloud and praising my M9540.

I thought it was just me. I watched my Brother use the tractor. Aaaahhhhh,,,, one huge difference here. He uses the auto throttle feature. I don't. I don't need some stupid throttle linkage mechanism to tell me how many rpms the engine needs to turn!!!!

Hmmmmm..... Maybe I do need that mechanism..... Brother never stalls..... I fight this tractor all the time and want to steal Fred's name he uses for his tractor, "Gutless Wonder".

The Auto Throttle feature accelerates the engine slightly before it engages the HST. More HST pedal equals more throttle. When it's used the engine is at half throttle or above as soon as it starts moving. Push the HST pedal halfway down and the engine is running full throttle. :thumbsup:

Aggravates the snot outta me. I'm an idle around type guy. Rarely run my M9540 above 1500 rpm.

I think the problem here is the HST takes a TREMENDOUS amount of HP. Add to that the fact that this chassis sized tractor should be 40HP or above and you've created a pooch that won't get out of it's own way unless it's running wide open.

My Brother loves his little tractor. I tolerate it. Everyone's content. Nothing mechanically wrong with the tractor other than it's weight to HP ratio is wayyyyyy off.

I see myself in Fred. Aggravates the heck out of me. Difference here is Fred is a gearhead and is gonna fix this problem if it's the last thing he does. I'm a lesser gearhead and would have traded it off by now. I'm anxious to see the end result here. I'm getting very bored with everyone saying there's something wrong with the tractor. It's only problem is that ratio I mentioned above.

 

[sd455dan]

I'll admit I like everything I own to work perfectly and strive to make it like that. I should have tried before buying but didn't. I jumped on this because there were no more larger 40 series tractors around, they are gone. Took 2 hours this morning and set up a degree wheel to the front pulley becuae the loader frame covers the timing port in the clutch housing. Sidenote: I would bet real money that no dealers check the timing and tear thse things apart. What a PITA.

Anyway here's my notes from this morning:
12-7-2013

Compression (cranking) 400 psi. all 4 cylinders (factory spec 520-580). WSM discrepancy?
Wrong manual for the tractor? WTFKnows
Checked Snap-On gauge against Nitrogen tank regulator gauge and both match closely.
Fuel Timing check #1 cylinder 17 degrees BTDC.
Leakdown test : #1 cyl. - 2%, #3 cyl.-3%, #4 cyl.-6%, #2 cyl.- 3%. NO leakage through valves.
Valve adjustment varied from .003"(#1 cylinder) to .007" (most others).
Adjusted all valves to .008".
Checked installed camshaft position, with overlap split degree wheel right on TDC #1 cylinder.
All valves checked at .050" lift.
Intake valve opens @13 degrees ATDC. Closes @170 degrees BTDC.
Exhaust valve opens @147 ATDC, Closes at 19 BTDC.
Intake and exhaust valve lift is .305".

View attachment 349026View attachment 349030View attachment 349031

Any other things I could check? Fresh out of ideas. Other than the timing being of MAYBE 2 degrees retarded and the tight valve adjustment I see nothing wrong with this. Tractor has 50 odd hours running time. Air filter minder hasn't moved. It just acts like more air is needed.

Thanks, Fred

Fred you said your intake opens @ 13* AFTER TDC I don't have a Kubota but My Rhino 55 hp tractor has the intake opening @ 8* BEFORE TDC and closing @48* after BDC

Is that intake opening spec correct, or should the intake be opening @ 13* BEFORE TDC....


Just a guess but sounds like the cam may be 26* late on the intake opening

-and late cam timing will result in the power band being shifted up and loss of low end torque.... and reduced cranking compression??

 

[The Fred]

For example, if I'm on any kind of uphill incline, running 2K RPM or more, in mid range or above, and use any hydraulics it immediately loses power and slows ground speed.

BINGO! I know enough NOT to push the HST pedal any deeper, I let off. In my opinion the auto HDS and anti-stall, auto throttle are all just workarounds for a poorly matched powerplant. I can't believe you're the first one to see the point I have been trying to make. The engine doesn't need more throttle it needs more torque.

I made flanges for the turbo this afternoon. The worst part of the whole install is getting the placement correct the first time. Lot of head scratching goin on.

Fred you said your intake opens @ 13* AFTER TDC I don't have a kubota but My Rhino 55 hp tractor has the intake opening @ 8* BEFORE TDC and closing @48* after BDC

Is that factory intake opening spec correct, or should the intake be opening @ 13* BEFORE TDC....


Just a guess but sounds like the cam may be 26* late on the intake opening

-and late cam timing will result in the power band being shifted up and loss of low end torque.... ???

My specs are with the valves open .050" then measuring the duration. It's the way most camshaft manufacturers measure their lobes. I am no expert on cams and certainly don't know how Kubota measures their duration. Valve cover is set back on temporary I can check the duration without going the full .050" (both ends) later on.

On the overlap cycle when both valves are equally level (because they are both open a bit at the same time) the piston is at TDC. This is kind of a layman's way of checking installed position.

I'd love to tear the front cover off the motor but it looks like a total PITA, messing up paint, needing gaskets etc ect.

The other thing that bothers me is the 400psi compression, yes the engine is stone cold and Kub's specs are with a warm engine. YEah right we're gonna check the compression warm, glow plugs or injectors come out first by that time the engine is cold. I almost wonder if the manual is fubar or maybe these latest V-2003 have lower compression pistons for lesser emissions. MY engine hold 7.2 quarts of oil NOT 8.7 like the book says. Strange; but really as long as there is no major cylinder sealing loss the lower compression is better for a turbocharger install.

Budweezer time, Fred

 

[Bluegill2]

This HP discussion is so hard to have logically with guys scattered all over the States and ideas of what's normal scattered all over the HP scale.

With that said, when I use my Brother's L3240 I get aggravated very quickly. For example, if I'm on any kind of uphill incline, running 2K RPM or more, in mid range or above, and use any hydraulics it immediately loses power and slows ground speed. First instinct is to jab the HST pedal to the floor. That will stall it completely if you don't have the anti-stall engaged.

So, next instinct is to pull the hand throttle wide open. You get no response whatsoever and if no other conditions are changed you will continue down the road to engine stall.

So, next instinct is to come off the HST pedal and relieve the load on the engine by stopping hydraulic use or whatever else you were doing to stall it in the first place.

By this time I am swearing outloud and praising my M9540.

I thought it was just me. I watched my Brother use the tractor. Aaaahhhhh,,,, one huge difference here. He uses the auto throttle feature. I don't. I don't need some stupid throttle linkage mechanism to tell me how many rpms the engine needs to turn!!!!

Hmmmmm..... Maybe I do need that mechanism..... Brother never stalls..... I fight this tractor all the time and want to steal Fred's name he uses for his tractor, "Gutless Wonder".

The Auto Throttle feature accelerates the engine slightly before it engages the HST. More HST pedal equals more throttle. When it's used the engine is at half throttle or above as soon as it starts moving. Push the HST pedal halfway down and the engine is running full throttle. :thumbsup:

Aggravates the snot outta me. I'm an idle around type guy. Rarely run my M9540 above 1500 rpm.

I think the problem here is the HST takes a TREMENDOUS amount of HP. Add to that the fact that this chassis sized tractor should be 40HP or above and you've created a pooch that won't get out of it's own way unless it's running wide open.

My Brother loves his little tractor. I tolerate it. Everyone's content. Nothing mechanically wrong with the tractor other than it's weight to HP ratio is wayyyyyy off.

I see myself in Fred. Aggravates the heck out of me. Difference here is Fred is a gearhead and is gonna fix this problem if it's the last thing he does. I'm a lesser gearhead and would have traded it off by now. I'm anxious to see the end result here. I'm getting very bored with everyone saying there's something wrong with the tractor. It's only problem is that ratio I mentioned above.

I don't own a HST and will not own a HST, so this could be why I don't understand Fred's problem, as I've never run out of power with three 24-45 hp Kubota's.

Like you, I never run our L3750 over 1500 rpm and rarely run the L3800 over 2000...

Well written and good explanation, Richard!

 

[Bluegill2]

The other thing that bothers me is the 400psi compression, yes the engine is stone cold and Kub's specs are with a warm engine. YEah right we're gonna check the compression warm, glow plugs or injectors come out first by that time the engine is cold. I almost wonder if the manual is fubar or maybe these latest V-2003 have lower compression pistons for lesser emissions. MY engine hold 7.2 quarts of oil NOT 8.7 like the book says. Strange; but really as long as there is no major cylinder sealing loss the lower compression is better for a turbocharger install.

Budweezer time, Fred

The low comp would worry me to and could be part of the problem. But like you said, it'll work out better for the turbo. Maybe it isn't broken it ? How many hours?

 

[TripleR]

I don't own a HST and will not own a HST, so this could be why I don't understand Fred's problem, as I've never run out of power with three 24-45 hp Kubota's.

Like you, I never run our L3750 over 1500 rpm and rarely run the L3800 over 2000...

Well written and good explanation, Richard!

Well, I run several HST and gear from 22 to 85HP and I still don't understand the "problem" nor does Phillip8N who owns the same tractor. I seriously considered a 3940, but decided it would be underpowered for me, so I went bigger.

I'm not saying there isn't a "problem", I just don't understand it yet.