Ideas for cannon ball extraction?

[Richard]

Ok, so today's (non-update)

Perhaps a scenario/question first.....

I am rather OCD about trying to be safe on things. I have, do and will take chances, perhaps even push my luck a bit but, because I'm so OCD I (like to think) that I've analyzed all the outcomes (note: I did not see TWO, possibly three balls, so what does that tell you about my thinking process.....sigh.)

Anyway, I'm pretty firm in my belief that if gunpowder gets not wet, but SOAKED, it's not going to ignite. If this is true, then I've never had a worry with this. If this is NOT true, then I've been playing with danger (if in fact, it has gunpowder in it which I can't swear to either way)

Seeing how this is developing, I do NOT see my father dropping a ball in there to show someone how it works. With the advent of two balls, possibly three..... with nine more to go.... well.....yes. I COULD see him scratching his head thinking where the heck do I put all these balls????? Meh...I'll just drop them down the barrel so they're out of sight/mind.

I worked in it for about 6-10 minutes, ball didn't seem to be budging so I got the drill back out and had at it. The bit was buried and I got an idea.

How can I extract it using a threaded rod when what I have buried in it is a hex head with no threads?

I think I'll make a lever! I don't know if I can describe this very well (haven't taken any pictures yet) Grabbed a 24" 2x4. Drilled a hole near the end in the middle of it. Removed right angle drill from extension, slipped this piece of wood over the extension, put drill back on. NOW I've got a backstop that will keep the drill from moving forward. Prior to trying that though, I thought I might be simply able to use the lever against the drill chuck which will then pull the extension which will then (hopefully) pull the ball.

Nope. Simply pulled the bit out of the ball. This bit isn't buried as firmly as the first one. So, put all back together again, let the drill proceed deeper into the ball but, since the head of the drill was butting up against the 2x4, it wouldn't give and with the lead being soft, it DID give and reamed the bit right back out of the ball.

Clouds came in and it started to rain so I shut it all down. The current situation is, the ball hasn't budged nor rotated a bit. I might just drill to the end (presuming another ball) and once a hole is in the middle, start another one offset to one side, then the other side. Just drill the ball(s?) to weakness and either break/bend them into submission.

Looking ahead, (as I'm typing this, I just thought of something) a lever (think crowbar) might be helpful when the time comes to work in there on the balls. I don't have something like that and this might be a great reason to go get one that might be long enough.

Actually, THAT now has another thought in the back of my head.... I'm thinking out loud, but will ask.

Do they make a chisel that is 24-30 inches long to fit an air chisel or, just to beat on with a hammer? That might be a nice way to section the ball once I get the hole complete.

 

[Root Cause]

you need an oversized corkscrew. best of luck

 

[Richard]

That might harken back to...what was it called... a ball worm? Cannon Worm?

 

[Root Cause]

I am not there and you have the expertise now but I did wonder about making a slide hammer/drill bit combo IF the bit bites good enough. You could just add the hammer before drilling? anyway, you have a good grip on it and good luck.

 

[Carl_NH]

Do they make a chisel that is 24-30 inches long to fit an air chisel or, just to beat on with a hammer? That might be a nice way to section the ball once I get the hole complete.

I have a 36" 3/4" Bosch SDS hammer drill bit, and they make a SDS chisel bit 18" BUT, IMO a hammer drill and a 3/4" bit may provide the hammer effect to loosen it up. https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-HC2129...locphy=9002459&hvtargid=pla-523861698414&th=1

 

[ponytug]

Ok, so today's (non-update)

Perhaps a scenario/question first.....

I am rather OCD about trying to be safe on things. I have, do and will take chances, perhaps even push my luck a bit but, because I'm so OCD I (like to think) that I've analyzed all the outcomes (note: I did not see TWO, possibly three balls, so what does that tell you about my thinking process.....sigh.)

Anyway, I'm pretty firm in my belief that if gunpowder gets not wet, but SOAKED, it's not going to ignite. If this is true, then I've never had a worry with this. If this is NOT true, then I've been playing with danger (if in fact, it has gunpowder in it which I can't swear to either way)

Seeing how this is developing, I do NOT see my father dropping a ball in there to show someone how it works. With the advent of two balls, possibly three..... with nine more to go.... well.....yes. I COULD see him scratching his head thinking where the heck do I put all these balls????? Meh...I'll just drop them down the barrel so they're out of sight/mind.

I worked in it for about 6-10 minutes, ball didn't seem to be budging so I got the drill back out and had at it. The bit was buried and I got an idea.

How can I extract it using a threaded rod when what I have buried in it is a hex head with no threads?

I think I'll make a lever! I don't know if I can describe this very well (haven't taken any pictures yet) Grabbed a 24" 2x4. Drilled a hole near the end in the middle of it. Removed right angle drill from extension, slipped this piece of wood over the extension, put drill back on. NOW I've got a backstop that will keep the drill from moving forward. Prior to trying that though, I thought I might be simply able to use the lever against the drill chuck which will then pull the extension which will then (hopefully) pull the ball.

Nope. Simply pulled the bit out of the ball. This bit isn't buried as firmly as the first one. So, put all back together again, let the drill proceed deeper into the ball but, since the head of the drill was butting up against the 2x4, it wouldn't give and with the lead being soft, it DID give and reamed the bit right back out of the ball.

Clouds came in and it started to rain so I shut it all down. The current situation is, the ball hasn't budged nor rotated a bit. I might just drill to the end (presuming another ball) and once a hole is in the middle, start another one offset to one side, then the other side. Just drill the ball(s?) to weakness and either break/bend them into submission.

Looking ahead, (as I'm typing this, I just thought of something) a lever (think crowbar) might be helpful when the time comes to work in there on the balls. I don't have something like that and this might be a great reason to go get one that might be long enough.

Actually, THAT now has another thought in the back of my head.... I'm thinking out loud, but will ask.

Do they make a chisel that is 24-30 inches long to fit an air chisel or, just to beat on with a hammer? That might be a nice way to section the ball once I get the hole complete.

Fascinating thread.

I keep having flashes of what could happen if there is residual powder in there, so if it were me, I wouldn't want to be generating heat or friction without the breech flooded with water. Black powder that gets wet and dries is more powerful than powder that hasn't been through the process. ("Corning")

You could always drill a hole in the ball, thread it, and use threaded rod through a plate at the muzzle end as a home made gear puller. I wonder though if getting the barrel ground/honed bored might not pay dividends once the ball is loosened, as the ball would promptly transition to a low friction area of the barrel once it was partially dislodged. However, I would grind/hone/bore with the muzzle significantly lower than the breech to have any grit or debris wash out during the process.

And, yes, I think your cop/machinist/armorer is a very good guy to get to know, especially if he is super keen on black powder.

All the best,

Peter

 

[groundcover]

A tractor site and no one, not one person has suggested hooking it up to the PTO and swinging it around by its tail like a dead cat to let centrifugal force work it's magic ! May need to back up to a loading dock to get proper clearance, and don't forget to use a counter weight or it could be dangerous!

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Just checked: there are 341,539 members now. I wonder how many of those members have a problem with a stuck cannonball, or have a cannon but don't yet know if there is a ball inside.

I've learned that if I find that I have a cannon, there may be a ball or two inside.

Maybe this thread will be brought back every years or two by someone with a stuck cannonball.

Good entertainment!



Bruce

Imagine how much fun a pallet can be.

 

[bcp]

A tractor site and no one, not one person has suggested hooking it up to the PTO and swinging it around by its tail like a dead cat to let centrifugal force work it's magic ! May need to back up to a loading dock to get proper clearance, and don't forget to use a counter weight or it could be dangerous!

Drill and tap the flash hole for a small pipe, screw on a fitting, then divert one of your hydraulic lines to it.

It is now a single action hydraulic cylinder with a free piston.



Bruce

 

[airbiscuit]

That might harken back to...what was it called... a ball worm? Cannon Worm?

 

[flyerdan]

I didn't catch the drill size, but if it's not too big, I'd make an ez out with a big lag screw and a chunk of 1/2-13 all thread. Weld the lag to the thread, get a chunk of flat bar with a hole in the middle to pull against, put that on, then a nut behind it, then weld another nut on the end so you can get on it with a socket. When the lag has a good bite, run the nut down to where the bar is in contact with the bore and then keep turning. It should pull it out with any luck.

 

[Mud2Money]

Clean the oils out. Clean the barrel with at least a wire brush. Apply some jb weld to a rod and stick that sucker onto the ball. You could probably pull it out then. If it rolled deeper than I’m guessing it will pull out with out to much trouble.

 

[Richard]

A tractor site and no one, not one person has suggested hooking it up to the PTO and swinging it around by its tail like a dead cat to let centrifugal force work it's magic ! May need to back up to a loading dock to get proper clearance, and don't forget to use a counter weight or it could be dangerous!

Too funny. I have both, should I use the 1000 or 540?

 

[Richard]

I have a 36" 3/4" Bosch SDS hammer drill bit, and they make a SDS chisel bit 18" BUT, IMO a hammer drill and a 3/4" bit may provide the hammer effect to loosen it up. https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-HC2129...locphy=9002459&hvtargid=pla-523861698414&th=1

I never thought about a bit like that. I might already have one too.
I like the idea, especially with the bit being smaller, I can maybe be more precise with it's location

(Am working today and tomorrow, 100 miles from home so will take a couple days to be sure)

 

[JethroB]

Drill and tap the flash hole for a small pipe, screw on a fitting, then divert one of your hydraulic lines to it.

It is now a single action hydraulic cylinder with a free piston.



Bruce

Or a big ‘squirt’ gun.

 

[JethroB]

Richard’s very entertaining saga is going to be memorable. It reminds me of this LONG but hilarious and very well described story:

We have the standard 6 ft. fence in the backyard, and a few months ago, I heard about burglaries increasing dramatically in the entire city. To make sure this never happened to me, I got an electric fence and ran a single wire along the top of the fence. Actually, I got the biggest cattle charger Tractor Supply had made for 26 miles of fence. I then used an 8 ft. long ground rod, and drove it 7.5 feet into the ground. The ground rod is the key, with the more you have in the ground, the better the fence works. One day I'm mowing the back yard with my cheapo Wal-Mart 6 hp big wheel push mower. The hot wire is broken and laying out in the yard. I knew for a fact that I unplugged the charger. I pushed the mower around the wire and reached down to grab it, to throw it out of the way. It seems as though I hadn't remembered to unplug it after all. Now I'm standing there, I've got the running lawnmower in my right hand and the 1.7 giga-volt fence wire in the other hand. Keep in mind the charger is about the size of a marine battery and has a picture of an upside down cow on fire on the cover. Time stood still. The first thing I notice is my pecker trying to climb up the front side of my body. My ears curled downwards and I could feel the lawnmower ignition firing in the backside of my brain. Every time that Briggs & Stratton rolled over, I could feel the spark in my head. I was literally at one with the engine. It seems as though the fence charger and the piece of **** lawnmower were fighting over who would control my electrical impulses. Science says you cannot crap, pee, and vomit at the same time. I beg to differ. Not only did I do all three at once, but my bowels emptied 3 different times in less than half of a second. It was a Matrix kind of bowel movement, where time is creeping along and you're all leaned back and BAM BAM BAM you just crap your pants 3 times. It seemed like there were minutes in between but in reality it was so close together it was like exhaust pulses from a big block Chevy turning 8 grand. At this point I'm about 30 minutes (maybe 2 seconds) into holding onto the fence wire. My hand is wrapped around the wire palm down so I can't let go. I grew up on a farm so I know all about electric fences ... but Dad always had those piece of **** chargers made by International or whoever that were like 9 volts and just kinda tickled. This one I could not let go of. The 8 foot long ground rod is now accepting signals from me through the permadamp Ark-La-Tex river bottom soil. At this point I'm thinking I'm going to have to just man up and take it, until the lawnmower runs out of gas. 'Damn!,' I think, as I remember I just filled the tank! Now the lawnmower is starting to run rough. It has settled into a loping run pattern as if it had some kind of big lawnmower race cam in it. Covered in poop, pee, and with my vomit on my chest I think 'Oh God please let me die .... Pleeeeaze . But nooooo, it settles into the rough lumpy cam idle nicely and remains there, like a big bore roller cam EFI motor waiting for the go command from its owner's right foot. So here I am in the middle of July, 104 degrees, 80% humidity, standing in my own backyard, begging God to kill me. God did not take me that day .... he left me there covered in my own fluids to writhe in the misery my own stupidity had created. I honestly don't know how I got loose from the wire .... I woke up laying on the ground hours later. The lawnmower was beside me, out of gas. It was later on in the day and I was sunburned. There were two large dead grass spots where I had been standing, and then another long skinny dead spot where the wire had laid while I was on the ground still holding on to it. I assume I finally had a seizure and in the resulting thrashing had somehow let go of the wire. Upon waking from my electrically induced sleep I realized a few things: 1 - Three of my teeth seem to have melted. 2 - I now have cramps in the bottoms of my feet and my right butt cheek (not the left, just the right). 3 - Poop, pee, and vomit when all mixed together, do not smell as bad as you might think. 4 - My left eye will not open. 5 - My right eye will not close. 6 - The lawnmower runs like a sumbitch now. Seriously! I think our little session cleared out some carbon fouling or something, because it was better than new after that. 7 - My nuts are still smaller than average yet they are almost a foot long. 8 - I can turn on the TV in the game room by farting while thinking of the number 4 (still don't understand this???). That day changed my life. I now have a newfound respect for things. I appreciate the little things more, and now I always triple check to make sure the fence is unplugged before I mow. The good news, is that if a burglar does try to come over the fence, I can clearly visualize what my security system will do to him, and THAT gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling all over, which also reminds me to triple check before I mow.

And now back to Richard and the regular scheduled programming ……..

 

[kirkawilson]

Don't know if this has been suggested, but maybe load it with dry ice to shrink the cannon ball and loosen it? Might need to insert a pvc pipe section inside the barrell in contact with the ball and then load the dry ice inside the pvc pipe so the dry ice doesn't touch the barrell and shrink it too. Could even heat the barrell to expand it while the dry ice shrinks the ball?

 

[ponytug]

Personally, I would be concerned that since lead is a soft, soft metal that any amount of hammering on the ball will cause the ball to mushroom out in width, further cementing it to the barrel.

They used to sell concrete anchors based on the same principle and they were wonderful anchors.

Just kibitzing from the arm chair...

All the best,

Peter

 

[alexpops]

JethroB --

You should post your story to the Groan thread. Absolutely hiilarious.

 

[LS Tractor Owner]

Richard’s very entertaining saga is going to be memorable. It reminds me of this LONG but hilarious and very well described story:

​

We have the standard 6 ft. fence in the backyard, and a few months ago, I heard about burglaries increasing dramatically in the entire city. To make sure this never happened to me, I got an electric fence and ran a single wire along the top of the fence. Actually, I got the biggest cattle charger Tractor Supply had made for 26 miles of fence. I then used an 8 ft. long ground rod, and drove it 7.5 feet into the ground. The ground rod is the key, with the more you have in the ground, the better the fence works. One day I'm mowing the back yard with my cheapo Wal-Mart 6 hp big wheel push mower. The hot wire is broken and laying out in the yard. I knew for a fact that I unplugged the charger. I pushed the mower around the wire and reached down to grab it, to throw it out of the way. It seems as though I hadn't remembered to unplug it after all. Now I'm standing there, I've got the running lawnmower in my right hand and the 1.7 giga-volt fence wire in the other hand. Keep in mind the charger is about the size of a marine battery and has a picture of an upside down cow on fire on the cover. Time stood still. The first thing I notice is my pecker trying to climb up the front side of my body. My ears curled downwards and I could feel the lawnmower ignition firing in the backside of my brain. Every time that Briggs & Stratton rolled over, I could feel the spark in my head. I was literally at one with the engine. It seems as though the fence charger and the piece of **** lawnmower were fighting over who would control my electrical impulses. Science says you cannot crap, pee, and vomit at the same time. I beg to differ. Not only did I do all three at once, but my bowels emptied 3 different times in less than half of a second. It was a Matrix kind of bowel movement, where time is creeping along and you're all leaned back and BAM BAM BAM you just crap your pants 3 times. It seemed like there were minutes in between but in reality it was so close together it was like exhaust pulses from a big block Chevy turning 8 grand. At this point I'm about 30 minutes (maybe 2 seconds) into holding onto the fence wire. My hand is wrapped around the wire palm down so I can't let go. I grew up on a farm so I know all about electric fences ... but Dad always had those piece of **** chargers made by International or whoever that were like 9 volts and just kinda tickled. This one I could not let go of. The 8 foot long ground rod is now accepting signals from me through the permadamp Ark-La-Tex river bottom soil. At this point I'm thinking I'm going to have to just man up and take it, until the lawnmower runs out of gas. 'Damn!,' I think, as I remember I just filled the tank! Now the lawnmower is starting to run rough. It has settled into a loping run pattern as if it had some kind of big lawnmower race cam in it. Covered in poop, pee, and with my vomit on my chest I think 'Oh God please let me die .... Pleeeeaze . But nooooo, it settles into the rough lumpy cam idle nicely and remains there, like a big bore roller cam EFI motor waiting for the go command from its owner's right foot. So here I am in the middle of July, 104 degrees, 80% humidity, standing in my own backyard, begging God to kill me. God did not take me that day .... he left me there covered in my own fluids to writhe in the misery my own stupidity had created. I honestly don't know how I got loose from the wire .... I woke up laying on the ground hours later. The lawnmower was beside me, out of gas. It was later on in the day and I was sunburned. There were two large dead grass spots where I had been standing, and then another long skinny dead spot where the wire had laid while I was on the ground still holding on to it. I assume I finally had a seizure and in the resulting thrashing had somehow let go of the wire. Upon waking from my electrically induced sleep I realized a few things: 1 - Three of my teeth seem to have melted. 2 - I now have cramps in the bottoms of my feet and my right butt cheek (not the left, just the right). 3 - Poop, pee, and vomit when all mixed together, do not smell as bad as you might think. 4 - My left eye will not open. 5 - My right eye will not close. 6 - The lawnmower runs like a sumbitch now. Seriously! I think our little session cleared out some carbon fouling or something, because it was better than new after that. 7 - My nuts are still smaller than average yet they are almost a foot long. 8 - I can turn on the TV in the game room by farting while thinking of the number 4 (still don't understand this???). That day changed my life. I now have a newfound respect for things. I appreciate the little things more, and now I always triple check to make sure the fence is unplugged before I mow. The good news, is that if a burglar does try to come over the fence, I can clearly visualize what my security system will do to him, and THAT gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling all over, which also reminds me to triple check before I mow.

And now back to Richard and the regular scheduled programming ……..

I have read this before somewhere, but it's still as hysterical as ever!