Ideas for cannon ball extraction?

[Slowpoke Slim]

OCD question....do you mean "grain" as in a "spec" of powder or do you mean it as a unit of weight? "39 grams" for example.

I've been told by my new, never met yet cop friend that roughly 2 ounces should work for a bang and some smoke. If I want to launch a projectile, I should NOT go over around 4 ounces. The guy at the ammo store, gave same guidelines without knowing I had already been told that.

How does two ounces for example, translate to grains? (unless you meant grams?)

Anyway, the bore is right at 2.22 inches so I'm calling it 2 1/4". This was measured at the very tip of the bore.

I've been told I can get some frozen orange juice cans and load them with concrete to fire them, instead of the lead ball. I'm intrigued by that...but figured I'd need it to be maybe a 2" diameter as I'm guessing (without knowing) that you don't want it "TIGHT" against the bore as it might jam. Then again, maybe it's the opposite.... putting a 2" slug into a 2 1/4" bore might allow it to jack sideways and jam.

Thoughts?

(I'll probably just stick to rags but a slug DOES intrigue the mischievous part of me)

Richard,

The old (english) unit of measure for powder is a "grain". Unless you're speaking of shotguns, which would then be a "dram".

Anyway,

The standard pound of gunpowder is equal to 7000 grains of powder. It's not "per granule" (as in each individual flake or speck of powder), but "grains" of powder. Just one of the unique hold-over measurements that's still in use today from old English times.

So, if one pound of gunpowder = 7000 grains, and one pound of gunpowder is = to 16 ounces, then each "ounce" of powder is = to 437.5 grains of powder.

2 ounces of gunpowder would = 875 grains of powder.

I would want that cannon checked out first. That's a pretty good charge. If the gun survives it, that ball is going to travel quite a ways. I'm thinking if you're really serious about firing it, I would get it checked for cracks first. Also we get into things like carriage weight and anchors, and does the gun need to be chained down first.

Many years ago one of the guys brought a cannon to Winter Range (annual cowboy action championships) in Phoenix, to fire it as a side show. He forgot to bring the anchor and chains for the carriage, and fired one shot without it. The cannon leapt up in the air on firing (carriage and all), and changed the trajectory of the projectile to a much higher angle of departure, causing the projectile to sail completely over the mountain backstop we were shooting into. Luckily it was open desert behind the mountain (at the time), so no harm was done. But that projectile went for a couple of miles. He didn't shoot it again that year. The next year he brought the proper anchor and chains to tie it down.

So there are other aspects to consider before you start launching lead.

This:

Blackpowder Mortar & Cannon by Seacoast Artillery

Used to be a good source of information. I haven't been on there in years, but some of those guys are the "real deal" and own, shoot, and some even make their own cannons. Should be plenty of information there to peruse.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

This is a situation where I would personally want some real advice from some one who actually shoots a black powder canon. Has this thing ever been fired or was it just a display canon?

There's a guy who comes to local July 4th events to fire his canon. The thing throws red hot sparks 20-30'. I could see it starting a fire in dry conditions. No telling how much $ has literally gone up in smoke.

Real blackpowder does shoot flame out of the barrel on firing. One of the "cool factors" about using The-One-And-True-Holy-Black-Powder. Yes fires have been set. Even out of shoulder fired shotguns, shooting "Holy Black" have set grass and brush on fire.

A substitute blackpowder (like Pyrodex) does not really do this. Even though it is manufactured to mimic the combustion rate of Holy Black, it is made from modern materials, so it doesn't have the sulfur and charcoal content in it that Holy Black Powder has.

Pyrodex will still smoke when fired, but there is almost no fire or embers out of the muzzle.

Kind of a let down, really.

 

[olvvvoo]

Well, it will be difficult here, what kind of ball is that? For golf? Baseball?

 

[Richard]

Today's update but first, comments about prior comments.

This cannon HAS been used a number of times. I specifically witnessed its use when I was maybe 10'ish. If/as it was fired later in my fathers life (who lived out of state, relative to us) I can't speak.

Good lesson on grains, thank you!!

Regarding kickback/other.... "when I was a kid" we had it on the back concrete patio. I do not recall it EVER moving of any substance. (maybe we always used smaller charges, I don't know) It has a 'wedge' that I always thought went under the rear of the barrel and was used to raise/lower the aim of the projectile. I don't know if that's accurate or not.....I can see where it could also have been used as a backstop for the wheels to help prevent it from rolling back instead of lower the barrel.

Either way.... Dad's wife can't find the wedgie so I don't have it. This would/will be fired in a field so I'm not worried too much about it rolling backwards too far, if at all. (if it didn't do it on concrete, I'd not expect it to do it much on a grassy field)

shrugs shoulders....

Put borescope down, sent picture to my yet to meet, cop/cannon buddy. He said it appeared to be good to go. (I hope I gave a good image for him)

I'm debating on doing a trial fire today. Wife looked at me and said "why don't you just test fire it on the 4th???"

I said because you want to make sure it WORKS correctly... "OHHHH, you are WANTING to shoot it for the 4th???"

Duh...

Now she gets it.

So today was time to see if fuse still works. I have no idea how old it is. To my untrained eye, fuse appears to me to be the type that would burn under water.

Set it up....and it fell over

Now I know why there's an ignition hole on the cannon.....so it will hold the fuse vertical and it doesn't fall over!!!

Set it back up....and viola, we have smoke.

So it's looking to me like I'm verrrrrry close to being able to do a small test fire (no projectiles in it other than maybe a rag)

Right now, I'm working on her list of things she'd like to get done, debating over & over & over.... about do I throw it into loader and carry down to field and give a go..... or keep looking for anything else that I might have missed.

 

[Richard]

This would/will be fired in a field

As long as it's pointed in correct direction and people are far enough away, I'm not terribly worried about the location. Here is what I'd be shooting "into". Triple that distance and you are finally at the property line but then, you are at a lake on the back side of farm.

House is on the right so this is parallel to the house..... I call this my front lawn.

NOBODY living in that direction (at all) except for 4,6,8 legged creatures.

 

[hosspuller]

Tools ... You'll need a powder measure, rammer and bore swab. Plus a bucket of water to extinguish the grass fire after the boom..

 

[gstrom99]

Might be my ignorance. Me (not being a gun person) "gunpowder is gunpowder"

I specifically asked about that and that's when he said a number of people use this in their cannons and explained the slow burn.

Midway has the powder you need.

Goex Cannon Black Powder 1 lb

Goex Cannon Black Powder is a special granulation for optimum Cannon performance. While Goex has improved manufacturing processes and material quality,...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[2manyrocks]

I have read that there was a specific drill followed to fire a canon. One reenactor posted that he participated in a drill where they failed to swab the bore properly to extinguish all the sparks. The next charge ignited as someone was using the ram. That guy lost an arm.

 

[Buckeye Guy]

Today's update but first, comments about prior comments.

This cannon HAS been used a number of times. I specifically witnessed its use when I was maybe 10'ish. If/as it was fired later in my fathers life (who lived out of state, relative to us) I can't speak.

Good lesson on grains, thank you!!

Regarding kickback/other.... "when I was a kid" we had it on the back concrete patio. I do not recall it EVER moving of any substance. (maybe we always used smaller charges, I don't know) It has a 'wedge' that I always thought went under the rear of the barrel and was used to raise/lower the aim of the projectile. I don't know if that's accurate or not.....I can see where it could also have been used as a backstop for the wheels to help prevent it from rolling back instead of lower the barrel.

Either way.... Dad's wife can't find the wedgie so I don't have it. This would/will be fired in a field so I'm not worried too much about it rolling backwards too far, if at all. (if it didn't do it on concrete, I'd not expect it to do it much on a grassy field)

shrugs shoulders....

Put borescope down, sent picture to my yet to meet, cop/cannon buddy. He said it appeared to be good to go. (I hope I gave a good image for him)

I'm debating on doing a trial fire today. Wife looked at me and said "why don't you just test fire it on the 4th???"

I said because you want to make sure it WORKS correctly... "OHHHH, you are WANTING to shoot it for the 4th???"

Duh...

Now she gets it.

So today was time to see if fuse still works. I have no idea how old it is. To my untrained eye, fuse appears to me to be the type that would burn under water.

View attachment 752574


Set it up....and it fell over

View attachment 752575

Now I know why there's an ignition hole on the cannon.....so it will hold the fuse vertical and it doesn't fall over!!!

Set it back up....and viola, we have smoke.

View attachment 752576

So it's looking to me like I'm verrrrrry close to being able to do a small test fire (no projectiles in it other than maybe a rag)

Right now, I'm working on her list of things she'd like to get done, debating over & over & over.... about do I throw it into loader and carry down to field and give a go..... or keep looking for anything else that I might have missed.

When you go to shoot it, you can use just about any kind of wadding that you want. My dad's signal cannon was 1.5 bore and we used a plastic disk (similiar to a shotgun wad) that fit VERY snug. Compression is key. The snugger the fit, the bigger the bang. Rags will work, just roll tight into a ball and ram it in the barrel, again making sure it's snug. On my .54 cannon, I shoot lead balls wrapped in a patch with shooters lube.
As far as amount of powder, with your 2.22 bore, I would use no more than 200 grains (you can get a measuring tool at any gun retailer that handles black powder) or slightly less than half an ounce.
Post a video!

 

[Richard]

Admission: I have no clue how to post a video. Never done it. I know how to take a video on the phone and/or a short video on my digital camera.

I can post pictures left/right...but I don't think you can upload a video to the site?

Ya, ya, ya.... I know....I can extract two cannon balls... I can take a 2x4 and create a slide hammer.....but I don't know how to post a video.