If it's cold where you live, what are you heating with and what is it costing?

[deserteagle71]

Geothermal heat....Nevada has many hot springs bubbling out boiling water and I wish I lived near enough to one to use that hot water to heat the house!

 

[jjeff]

I got my spray foam on a new build, did a bit of research and consulted a few more experienced folks before I committed to hiring a spray foam contractor. Noticable gassing was over in a few days and nonexistent when I finished everything and got my occupancy permit about a year later. I used open cell on the 2x6 walls and closed cell on the roof rafters. I can say after paying the extra to hire someone to do it vs diy and other less expensive options I'll always advocate spray foam and both my wife and I have recommended it to anyone that asks. Just today my wife freaked when she saw a dead mouse in our home downstate, our spray foam insulated cabin that's only occupied 3-4 months throughout the year has yet to have any mice or rodents. We do keep our living quarters clean however those of you that have little people know it can be a losing battle lol.

 

[LD1]

Right on. You make a logical point and I understand what you are saying. For you, firewood is basically a commodity that can just as easily be sold as it can be burned yourself - so it's quite silly to ignore the market value of it.

But for me, I wouldn't even know where to begin selling it. I mean, I could make a craigslist post and probably find buyers, but that would mean a lot of additional time and effort by ME, to get it sold, and probably delivered since I don't want randos at my house. And really, I have no interest in doing that at this time given the small scale of my production, not even close to worth it (I may have to engage in this in the future if I get fed up with my engineering day job from cubicle land... lol).

Around here a facecord of nice dried hardwood is generally $100 all day long, and all the way up. I could probably get a minor bargain by ordering in quantity, so I probably burn about $1000 a winter of it for heat. $1000 for 5 months of heat = $200 a month of value (at ~40 hours of work to do annually, I guess my time is $25/hr or so to do it.... not great).

"Worthless smoke"? No way! It's a beautiful, warm, radiating heat that easily keeps my entire 1650 sq ft home around 70f +/- 5°, with minimal hassle. Thankfully my wife loves to make and stoke the fire, so my only real work in the winter time is to reload the rack in the screen porch once or twice a month, which I try to go do when the sun is shining for some vitamin D. Oh an btw, the leftover ashes make excellent soil amendment, compost additive, or icy driveway traction.

But really, from my perspective, I just don't want to sell the wood. Don't want to deal with that extra complication and hassle, and like I said earlier, I do this work in my spare time, somewhat randomly. So I can't commit to delivering to other people on time, etc. As such I just don't see it as a monetary thing - it's just a chore I have to do, that I knew I'd have to do for life when we built the house. So far I love it. If I get injured or disabled, I guess I spend a $1000 a winter, or maybe a bit more to keep it reliable and get it delivered/stacked for us. Still a win. Our house has no furnace or ducting to bedrooms, no natural gas service (our choice upon building) so I guess my only alternative is to run the expensive electric heat, or get a propane tank and figure out what kind of appliance to cram into the house. Yuck, no thanks.

It was 20°f this morning. No fire in the woodstove since Sunday night, was down to 63 inside so the family was complaining. I fired up the mini split just for kicks. It flashed "dF" - needed to run a quick defrost mode for a few mins before it started pumping out some nice strong heat. I was pretty impressed, but it was probably also sucking down 2000 watts or more to do it. Wifey can just make a fire after dropping off the kiddos, so I shut it down after 15 minutes haha.

Like I said, selling is not for everyone. But its largely unfounded fears you have. A few posts on facebook or word of mouth would sell more than you burn. And its not a hassle at all. Someone calls, says they want a load of wood, and you schedule a time. 99.99% of the time its cash up front then you toss it off.

But when you say:

And really, I have no interest in doing that at this time given the small scale of my production, not even close to worth it

My counter argument would be....why is it worth it to burn vs just spend $1000 and buy heat.


You are investing 40hrs of your time to produce $1000 of product to convert it to heat via burning it. But its not worth it to spend the same 40hrs to earn $1000 and simply buy your heat? And if anything, Its LESS work to simply sell the wood. I handle it less, and no mess or chimney cleaning or ash pan cleaning or ever doing anything other than making sure the t-stat is on. If the time you invest to sell $1000 worth of wood is "not worth it", then neither is burning it for heating IMO.

And when I said "worthless smoke", I was trying to level the playing field so to speak. Yes, your $1000 of wood heats your house.....but so does $1000 via another heat source. So at the end of the year, you either spend $1000 and have a warm house, or you burn $1000 and have a warm house and a couple pails of ashes and worthless smoke.

Dont get me wrong, Im not looking to change anyones mind or convince anyone to give up wood burning or start a firewood business. As I have said all along, my beef is with the comments from people who tout how much money they save by burning. Im simply pointing out that the savings isnt as great as people claim, because what you are burning DOES have value to many others. And THAT value must be deducted from the "claimed" savings.

 

[NoTrespassing]

Like I said, selling is not for everyone. But its largely unfounded fears you have. A few posts on facebook or word of mouth would sell more than you burn. And its not a hassle at all. Someone calls, says they want a load of wood, and you schedule a time. 99.99% of the time its cash up front then you toss it off.

But when you say:


My counter argument would be....why is it worth it to burn vs just spend $1000 and buy heat.


You are investing 40hrs of your time to produce $1000 of product to convert it to heat via burning it. But its not worth it to spend the same 40hrs to earn $1000 and simply buy your heat? And if anything, Its LESS work to simply sell the wood. I handle it less, and no mess or chimney cleaning or ash pan cleaning or ever doing anything other than making sure the t-stat is on. If the time you invest to sell $1000 worth of wood is "not worth it", then neither is burning it for heating IMO.

And when I said "worthless smoke", I was trying to level the playing field so to speak. Yes, your $1000 of wood heats your house.....but so does $1000 via another heat source. So at the end of the year, you either spend $1000 and have a warm house, or you burn $1000 and have a warm house and a couple pails of ashes and worthless smoke.

Dont get me wrong, Im not looking to change anyones mind or convince anyone to give up wood burning or start a firewood business. As I have said all along, my beef is with the comments from people who tout how much money they save by burning. Im simply pointing out that the savings isnt as great as people claim, because what you are burning DOES have value to many others. And THAT value must be deducted from the "claimed" savings.

He doesn't want to sell wood. I completely understand that. I hate selling anything, especially if it would require someone coming to my property. I gave wood away one time, the poor guy got poison oak rash all over from it. Luckily he didn't burn it and get it in his lungs.

 

[deezler]

My counter argument would be....why is it worth it to burn vs just spend $1000 and buy heat.

You are investing 40hrs of your time to produce $1000 of product to convert it to heat via burning it. But its not worth it to spend the same 40hrs to earn $1000 and simply buy your heat?

I mean, for me it's kinda moot. I have no other option, as the intentional byproduct of our home's design. I cannot buy $1000 of other heat. Yes we have electric backup heat, but I doubt it would truly suffice during an extended stretch of zero degree, cloudy weather. I don't particularly want to find out.

Also, my job is salary. I have no other income stream, at this time. They make me show up at least 35 hours a week and lead my group, and I do. Outside of that is my time to diddle around as I see fit. I don't want to trade my cushy job with benefits for my family, for $25/hr firewood production - and I earn 1k in a lot less than 40 hours in the cubicle. But I also do enjoy saving some money by using my spare time to produce my home's heat source. Like many other folks here say, I truly enjoy the process of making it and helping to justify my tool and equipment collection at home. It's a deliberate choice, as part of a developing mindset we have towards being totally independant and off-grid someday by choice, or when TSHTF.

I knew my original post would find someone that wanted to debate how "free" my firewood is. But I'll shut up now.

 

[ovrszd]

Thats disappointing to hear. Regardless of what insulation type you choose, a new built house should be built with pride and made nice and tight. The notion that if you don't use spray foam insulation, then your walls will be leaky enough to properly ventilate the house... I mean, thats just garbage. It truly blows my mind how many sh!tty homes are still being built today in 2022. These subdivision cookie cutter stick houses will be total trash in 100 years or less, and/or simply uneconomical to heat properly if an energy crisis arises.

In reality the air in many people's home is a toxic stew. All the chinese plastic goods, all the laminated furniture, the burnt cooking smoke from the kitchen, the chemicals under the sink and in the bathroom, heck even the intentional "air fresheners" - it's all off-gassing stuff into the air inside your house that you shouldn't ever breathe. Not to mention the decreased oxygen and elevated CO/CO2 that most people deal with inside without even realizing. We have a weather station and the indoor modules measure CO2. If I shut my ventilation off... it goes up quick! Have a few extra humans over to hang out or have a meal and you see the air quality go down in real time. Nothing to lose sleep over if your house feels comfy today - but if you build something new, for the sake of your family, ventilate it properly. A good ERV/HRV is only $1000-2000 and some small ducting.

I don't agree with any of your theories regarding house ventilation. I also don't agree with your idea of not putting a monetary value on your firewood.

But I'm glad you are happy.

 

[deezler]

They're not..... my theories, man. Easy enough to research.

But thanks and I hope you are happy with your buildings too.

 

[ovrszd]

Like I said, selling is not for everyone. But its largely unfounded fears you have. A few posts on facebook or word of mouth would sell more than you burn. And its not a hassle at all. Someone calls, says they want a load of wood, and you schedule a time. 99.99% of the time its cash up front then you toss it off.

But when you say:


My counter argument would be....why is it worth it to burn vs just spend $1000 and buy heat.


You are investing 40hrs of your time to produce $1000 of product to convert it to heat via burning it. But its not worth it to spend the same 40hrs to earn $1000 and simply buy your heat? And if anything, Its LESS work to simply sell the wood. I handle it less, and no mess or chimney cleaning or ash pan cleaning or ever doing anything other than making sure the t-stat is on. If the time you invest to sell $1000 worth of wood is "not worth it", then neither is burning it for heating IMO.

And when I said "worthless smoke", I was trying to level the playing field so to speak. Yes, your $1000 of wood heats your house.....but so does $1000 via another heat source. So at the end of the year, you either spend $1000 and have a warm house, or you burn $1000 and have a warm house and a couple pails of ashes and worthless smoke.

Dont get me wrong, Im not looking to change anyones mind or convince anyone to give up wood burning or start a firewood business. As I have said all along, my beef is with the comments from people who tout how much money they save by burning. Im simply pointing out that the savings isnt as great as people claim, because what you are burning DOES have value to many others. And THAT value must be deducted from the "claimed" savings.

Good post. Wish I had said it.

 

[lman]

A couple who go to our church built a house on a farm they bought close to us. Over the years they have built several houses, lived in them for a while, then sold at a profit and built another one. This was to be their retirement house and it was planned over years down to the last detail. They have an open geothermal system that works on well water instead of the pipes buried in the yard. Water goes thru the system and drains down a rock covered culvert into a pond. Don't know the figures but he says it is the most efficient, cheapest to operate system they have used. And they have used several different types of heating cooling systems over the years. They are on city water for drinking, cleaning, etc. and use the well water only for the geo system and watering the few animals they have.

Does anybody else have a system like this? My sister is planning on building next year and she is looking for info on different systems.

RSKY

My Mom has a system like that. The problem with her system is that her water quality is not so good and the filters going into the heat pump get dirty often and have to be cleaned.
I have a closed loop and have never had a problem with my loop water and it has never required adding any to the loop. My loop water gets colder than an open loop but it still heats adequately. The resistance heat has never been used even at -20 a few years back.

 

[ovrszd]

I mean, for me it's kinda moot. I have no other option, as the intentional byproduct of our home's design. I cannot buy $1000 of other heat. Yes we have electric backup heat, but I doubt it would truly suffice during an extended stretch of zero degree, cloudy weather. I don't particularly want to find out.

Also, my job is salary. I have no other income stream, at this time. They make me show up at least 35 hours a week and lead my group, and I do. Outside of that is my time to diddle around as I see fit. I don't want to trade my cushy job with benefits for my family, for $25/hr firewood production - and I earn 1k in a lot less than 40 hours in the cubicle. But I also do enjoy saving some money by using my spare time to produce my home's heat source. Like many other folks here say, I truly enjoy the process of making it and helping to justify my tool and equipment collection at home. It's a deliberate choice, as part of a developing mindset we have towards being totally independant and off-grid someday by choice, or when TSHTF.

I knew my original post would find someone that wanted to debate how "free" my firewood is. But I'll shut up now.

These discussions are always started by wood burners that claim they are saving money.

I have no problem with anyone burning wood. If it makes you happy it makes me happy. Just be thoughtful when it comes to discussing the monetary side.

LD1 has made some very valid points. Like me, he doesn't care whether you burn your wood or sell it. He's just clarifying the monetary side.