I'm NOT testing MY oil!!!

[Henro]

Re: I\'m NOT testing MY oil!!!

Sorry about the GSRX1000 GSXR1100... /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif Still working on getting names like Bill and John right... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Let's take the point about oil in the engine. Does it get progressively poorer in performance as time goes by? If so, how could keeping used oil in the engine and sending out a sample for testing be better for the engine than draining out the degraded oil and putting fresh oil in?

All else being equal, wouldn’t fresh oil be at least ever so slightly better for the engine (and certainly not worse) than leaving the old oil in there?

 

[gsxr1100]

Re: I\'m NOT testing MY oil!!!

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Let's take the point about oil in the engine. Does it get progressively poorer in performance as time goes by? If so, how could keeping used oil in the engine and sending out a sample for testing be better for the engine than draining out the degraded oil and putting fresh oil in? )</font>

Sure, but a good oil will deplete at a much slower rate of change. It also depends on what kind of oil being used. If using a good group 4/5 it will deplete very slow after XXX hours. Why test at 100 hours and then drain when the oils life still has over 50% left? A dino oil will deplete faster and both depletions are non-linear. So you can not tell me at 50 hours results will be 2X that at 100 hours.

Again, the oil test is also for preventive maintance as I have posted many times. There is more to it them oil longevity here.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( All else being equal, wouldn’t fresh oil be at least ever so slightly better for the engine (and certainly not worse) than leaving the old oil in there? )</font>.

First off, all things are not equal. If the original oil still has, for example a ZDDP not even used over 10%, a TBN over 9 still, and wear results are perfect why drain oil? There is no need to. The new oil will have high ZDDP but you have not even utilized the original oils ZDDP package yet. That is like replacing tires on a car when they are only used 30 to 50%, or drink half a case of beer and throwing rest out. That is called non-production wasting of funds.

 

[SkyPup]

Re: I\'m NOT testing MY oil!!!

When I did my oil testing on my VW TDIs (purchased both brand new and plan to keep them for 20+ years), I first changed the OEM Castrol Synthetic that came in the crankcase to Amsoil 10W-40 Group 4 Full Synthetic and then waited for 10,000 miles (which is the OEM recommended oil change out using their OEM Synthetic oil).

At 10,000 miles, I sampled the crankcase and sampled a new container of Amsoil 10W-40 and sent them both off for oil analysis so that I could compare the original composition to the 10,000 mile composition. Results were that the 10,000 mile oil was basically the same as the unused new oil except for minor oxidation and nitration (way below acceptable limits), the TBN was down a couple of units, and the soot concentration rose.

At 20,000 miles resampled the Amsoil 10W-40 in the crankcase and found same results, basically the oil was still 100% useable, however the soot content had now risen to about 3%.

After learning these facts, I could have either installed a larger oil filter with more capacity and smaller orifices to take out the aggregates of carbonized soot or changed the oil.

Decided to continue to use the OEM oil filter and change out @ 10,000 mile intervals since there is virtually no decrease in oil performance whatsoever at that point. Could have doubled this easily except for the increase in soot concentration which is the only parameter that needed attention.


To date neither diesel engine consumes any measurable oil whatsoever inbetween 10,000 mile change outs. This is simply amazing as NO enigne I have ever operated prior to this could even go 5,000 miles without losing a quart or oil or more. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Henro]

Re: I\'m NOT testing MY oil!!!

<font color="blue"> That is like... or drink half a case of beer and throwing rest out. That is called non-production wasting of funds. </font>

Now we're getting into an area I can relate to! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif But I think it is more like buying cheap beer and paying someone to taste it and tell you it is beer, rather than just keeping the portion you paid the tester and buying good beer to begin with. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Granted changing oil well before it is "necessary" is for the most part a waste of funds. But it should at least help a tiny bit. Not changing oil and sending out a sample from one's personal baby, whoops I mean tractor, only to get information that says "all is OK" doesn't help the engine even a tiny bit.

So in the end, I choose the practice that at least has hope of helping my engine a tiny bit! Rather than the one that really is likely to offer no help at all... all while maintaining about the same out-of-pocket costs regardless of which option I would choose.

 

[gsxr1100]

Re: I\'m NOT testing MY oil!!!

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Now we're getting into an area I can relate to! But I think it is more like buying cheap beer and paying someone to taste it and tell you it is beer, rather than just keeping the portion you paid the tester and buying good beer to begin with. )</font>

No, they are telling you the properties of the fluid and any contaminates in the oil. Very very nice to know.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Granted changing oil well before it is "necessary" is for the most part a waste of funds. But it should at least help a tiny bit. Not changing oil and sending out a sample from one's personal baby, whoops I mean tractor, only to get information that says "all is OK" doesn't help the engine even a tiny bit. )</font>

It does not help at all if the original oil is still protection perfect. It does help since that tells the story of what is going on in the engine; Again more then just oil here.


</font><font color="blue" class="small">( So in the end, I choose the practice that at least has hope of helping my engine a tiny bit! Rather than the one that really is likely to offer no help at all... all while maintaining about the same out-of-pocket costs regardless of which option I would choose. )</font>

Utilizing both a dino and a nice group 4/5 oil is not the same cost “out-of-pocket” in the end. The real synthetic will payoff in the end by showing less wear, better protection (TAN, TBN, ZDDP, etc) & less $$$$$ then the dino. All still protecting better and have extended drains then any group 3 or below.

 

[_RaT_]

Re: I\'m NOT testing MY oil!!!

Mike, here's a question. I would take it that you probably don't plan to have your Lexus much beyond say 200K maybe 300K miles. Even that is not the typical mileage that folks trade in or sell their car, it's much less then that. Why would someone care if a standard oil is used in a vehicle as per the manufactuers specs vs something like a synthetic? I would say that in my experience, my vehilces have exhibited very little wear even at 150K. I make that as a guess simply based on some observations such as smog tests to actually plasti gauging the rods and bearings on an old Datsun truck I had. In other words, why go through the expense of synthetic and it's benefits if one of the primary payoffs is longevity due to less wear? I would understand it if you buy a car for life, I suspect you don't fall into that category. Certainly it cannot be for the concern of the future owner. Curious minds....

 

[gsxr1100]

Re: I\'m NOT testing MY oil!!!

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Mike, here's a question. I would take it that you probably don't plan to have your Lexus much beyond say 200K maybe 300K miles. Even that is not the typical mileage that folks trade in or sell their car, it's much less then that. Why would someone care if a standard oil is used in a vehicle as per the manufactuers specs vs something like a synthetic? )</font>

Most people do not care about the oil used. Most look at the car and drive it and make “a call”. Only a select few ask about synthetics. When buying a used car I would always ask about oil testing since that tells the true story, 100%. And I will be keeping the car for several more years.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I would say that in my experience, my vehilces have exhibited very little wear even at 150K. )</font>

Unless you have oil tests to show this, I do not know this and @ what interval.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I make that as a guess simply based on some observations such as smog tests to actually plasti gauging the rods and bearings on an old Datsun truck I had. In other words, why go through the expense of synthetic and it's benefits if one of the primary payoffs is longevity due to less wear? )</font>

Because I do less oil changes (less $$$), hence less used oil, time etc, and still protect the same as a dino oil with a shorter drain. Hence, not sacrificing anything but saving me time, money, wear etc. Also notice you said, “benefits if one of the primary payoffs”. That is just one…

 

[SkyPup]

Re: I\'m NOT testing MY oil!!!

Don't forget, Diesels normally get alot more hours on them than gasoline automobiles.

Also, many who purchase a tractor for home or farm-ranch use keep them until they die and pass them on to their heirs.

 

[gsxr1100]

Re: I\'m NOT testing MY oil!!!

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Don't forget, Diesels normally get alot more hours on them than gasoline automobiles. )</font>

And?????The oil does not care.


</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Also, many who purchase a tractor for home or farm-ranch use keep them until they die and pass them on to their heirs. )</font>

Yup…Again, the oil does not care. Still the HUGE, amazingly high-cost of the oil test, $15, is priceless to find out the real true story on any motor.

 

[MadDog]

Re: I\'m NOT testing MY oil!!!

Mike, I've been following this thread with great interest and it has raised a question that perhaps only demonstrates my ignorance: I think that I understand the potential value of oil testing from the point of view of determining whether, at a particular point, the oil still has retained its lubricating properties so that changing is not yet needed. What I do not understand is how valuable an oil test is from the point of preventive maintenance (recognizing developing problems at an early stage) to a non-knowledgeable person like me.

Do oil testing results just tell you what trace metals are found in the oil in what proportions, and do you then have to know what parts of the engine those trace metals come from, whether their proportions are beyond what is normal, and what the significance of that is??? or do the oil test results contain this information?

A test result that just told me things like "you have .2ppm nickel in your oil" would, I confess, be meaningless to me unless I then took it to an engineer and paid another $??? to tell me what it meant.

You are obviously pretty knowledgeable about oil test reports and the significance of what they show. Would they be as informative to an automotive ignoramus like me?? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif