Implement/Attachment Wish list...

[spruce Deere]

What do I want, cant speak for the rest of TBN, but here is some examples

A good top quality aftermarket manufacture for compact tractors, American made of course, of implements often found for larger ag application such as implements like chisle plows, culti-packers, implements like allen in texas mentioned and such, but sized down for compacts.....

Dealers need to be in every other town in every state with excellent support and parts supply to boot.

Not like the used car sales dives selling brand new brands of here today gone tomorrow tractor brands with implements...

And a company should not be as so proud as to charge what some "popular colored" companies charge for there implement products... If it is really there product to start with...

The way the everything has been lately, there has been a serious growth in local produce production for local stores and farmers markets, most of wich operate on small one to ten acre operations...

Lots of old iron getting used 'recycled' again from when a 20-30hp tractor was king.... Well, what iron is left after scrap iron prices got high

Think compact tractor with a eye towards big tillage tools and apply those ideas to something in 15 too 30hp range.....with affordability

I dont mind paying for what I need, but some things are just plain robbery with different name brand implements. Most of wich just use label a different manufactures product under there name and color to sell it for thousands more.

 

[Reg]

OK, I'll shelve the biz aspect comments for now.

Here are few things that MIGHT work for you, I see them as holes in the market.

A Power rake that is in a different price class to what is currently available.
Harley, Woods & Land Pride are the price setters - somewhere around $8K according to size.
I believe there is little more to these than what is in a roto-tiller, comparable width tillers retail for as low as 20% of power rake prices.
You should be able to find some space in there, as long as you can also find some space in the patents (-:

Replacement and alternative tine sets for roto-tillers.
I would REALLY like a set of straight "blades" for mine so I could slice lawns up without turning them over or ruining the sod.
Simple flat strips of steel with two holes near one end, minimal design and tooling costs.
I suspect that many of us would like different tines for our particular soil conditions.

{Yes, I've been churnin' up the dirt this week, so tillers and power rakes are on my mind}

I had something else......
Anyway, I second the idea that the self build forum could provide you with some stimulus.
Just reading WHY some of the folks there decided on a self build might help you decide to
make a new and improved version of whatever it was that they couldn't/didn't buy.

 

[allen in texas]

implements like allen in texas mentioned more.

I wondered if anyone thought I was being serious.
I was even if I did put a smiley face.

Although a product like the plows I linked to might have a very narrow market, I would love to have one.
My old 60 model is really getting hard to get parts for.
There are numerous manufacturers overseas who make plows (ploughs?) like this for smaller tractors.
To small in fact for mine but what the hey, somebody does it and we can't get them here.

 

[ZLineFabrication]

Allen, the problem with complicated equipment like this is the time it takes to cut all the steel, assemble, paint, get parts (as most dont make small parts in house), assemble some more, and then Ship the equipment. this is the reason most of the larger "farm" implements cost what they do, its the overhead that drives the cost through the roof. you can go to any farm show in the country and say,"i could build that for less", and be right. but, you'll never be able to build it as easily as the guys that already do.

now this is just my observation so take it for what its worth. as i said earlier, theres always someone willing to do it for LESS profit. but it still may cost him the same.

i will look into this idea, just the same. i need one anyway.

 

[spruce Deere]

I was dead serious allen in texas

But what the hey, someone does it and we can get them here.....

Thats exactly right.... more manufacturing here the better. I think we could cure ALOT of THIS countries problems if we did more "in-house" work. More products, more choices less of a monopoly. GO Zlinefabrication:thumbsup:

Reg had a good points also, like the price of power rakes, would love to own one also, but the price of them if there not completely worn out, and sometimes even then, cause a great deal of laughter.... Yea, there is a LITTLE note big letters, bit more to a power rake compared to a like size tiller but at 80% more cost of a tiller.... WTF

Or just simple mods like different tiller tine shapes for different apps. So simple, You would think someone would have done this already.... Out a little time swapping tines or just torque tube on some models, but cheaper than a power rake in my figgering....

 

[CompactTractorFan]

This is probably way out of your range, but what would be really nice would be a lawn vacuum like this scaled down for a CUT:

ProLine Turf Leaf and Debris Sweeper Vac

Like that but scaled down and without the $30k price tag...

 

[Reg]

Allen, the problem with complicated equipment like this is the time it takes to cut all the steel, assemble, paint, get parts (as most dont make small parts in house), assemble some more, and then Ship the equipment. this is the reason most of the larger "farm" implements cost what they do, its the overhead that drives the cost through the roof. you can go to any farm show in the country and say,"i could build that for less", and be right. but, you'll never be able to build it as easily as the guys that already do.

now this is just my observation so take it for what its worth. as i said earlier, theres always someone willing to do it for LESS profit. but it still may cost him the same.

i will look into this idea, just the same. i need one anyway.

Basically, I don't believe that.
Although it may be part of the problem head set that has allowed (encouraged ?) manufacturing to leave the US.

Get a hold of someone who is CURRENT on manufacturing engineering, someone who knows that CAD/CAM can export files that can DIRECTLY set up and run the machinery that makes the parts.
This is PC scale design and garage shop manufacturing.
Garage shops have numerical controlled laser cutting tables, probably under $10K invested total, they specialize, there are similar welding shops.

You have to find your sources/resources, including parts manufacturing capacity.
This isn't a 2 year development cycle by any means, it WORKS for low volume.

No longer the black smith at the forge, not even Henry Ford's production line or post WWII manufacturing.

Option B;
High Quality
Low price
Acceptable profit

Pick any two.
Draw a line between them and when you are on that line remember that you are opposite the third one.

 

[ZLineFabrication]

Basically, I don't believe that.
Although it may be part of the problem head set that has allowed (encouraged ?) manufacturing to leave the US.

Get a hold of someone who is CURRENT on manufacturing engineering, someone who knows that CAD/CAM can export files that can DIRECTLY set up and run the machinery that makes the parts.
This is PC scale design and garage shop manufacturing.
Garage shops have numerical controlled laser cutting tables, probably under $10K invested total, they specialize, there are similar welding shops.

You have to find your sources/resources, including parts manufacturing capacity.
This isn't a 2 year development cycle by any means, it WORKS for low volume.

No longer the black smith at the forge, not even Henry Ford's production line or post WWII manufacturing.

Option B;
High Quality
Low price
Acceptable profit

Pick any two.
Draw a line between them and when you are on that line remember that you are opposite the third one.

im not sure how to correct the problem, im just trying a new approach.

we ARE currently working on low volume, but i can tell you that our primary products could go from 4 a week to 10 easily. At this point we will acually start making money.

I agree, it is a long hard road to developing the network needed to make these claims. i assure you our vendors understand that if they cannot provide under our conditions we will move on to the next on the list. this is the MOST important part of any type of manufaturing.

... Whats wrong with option b?

 

[ZLineFabrication]

This is probably way out of your range, but what would be really nice would be a lawn vacuum like this scaled down for a CUT:

ProLine Turf Leaf and Debris Sweeper Vac

Like that but scaled down and without the $30k price tag...

Really, 30k?:confused2:

and only 1 year warranty? Im really scratchin my head....

 

[boggen]

This is probably way out of your range, but what would be really nice would be a lawn vacuum like this scaled down for a CUT:

ProLine Turf Leaf and Debris Sweeper Vac

Like that but scaled down and without the $30k price tag...

other words something like this? (see link)
Cyclone Rake Lawn Vacuums: Product Lineup

been thinking about finding a 3pt hitch blower. and connecting the intake up a generic trailer or lawn trailer. with some plywood for sides and top. with some sort of screen mesh to keep the blower getting clogged up. though would prefer to use 55 or 30 gallon drums, or trash cans.

google search for "pull grass vacuum"

 

[CompactTractorFan]

other words something like this? (see link)
Cyclone Rake Lawn Vacuums: Product Lineup

been thinking about finding a 3pt hitch blower. and connecting the intake up a generic trailer or lawn trailer. with some plywood for sides and top. with some sort of screen mesh to keep the blower getting clogged up. though would prefer to use 55 or 30 gallon drums, or trash cans.

google search for "pull grass vacuum"

The thing about the Cyclone Rake or TracVac is you need to have a MMM...

 

[CompactTractorFan]

Really, 30k?:confused2:

and only 1 year warranty? Im really scratchin my head....

Yeah. They seem to run from the low $20k's to the low $30k's...Seem to be suited for golf courses...

 

[ZLineFabrication]

Yeah. They seem to run from the low $20k's to the low $30k's...Seem to be suited for golf courses...

i guess this proves "Reg's" point and the reason we are here. im thinking, that this peice of equipment is inflated based on the fact that it seems to be a very specialized piece of equipment for a seemingly narrow market. the high price could mean a few different things. either greed from a cornered market or (given the benifit of doubt) the need to recupe expenses from development?

Now, if we were to build this. i would want to come in below 10k for commercial uses. this would mean a homeowner version at around 5k. this is a simple design, somewhat similar to a "straw blower" used in errosion control (it just sucks instead).

Thoughts?

 

[CompactTractorFan]

Actually, they use "fingers" to pick up the debris. Here is another unit made by a different company: Agrimetal - Leader in golf and debris equipment

They do make a smaller unit, but it is pretty small, not PTO powered, and runs $5k-$7k...

Agrimetal - Leader in golf and debris equipment

 

[Jimbo16720]

to be honest- I am not sure what you are really looking for to do here.

Currently many implements can be had at the local tractor dealers and TSC.

There is only 2 implements I can think of that I cannot find locally.

An small pto overseeder for to work on tractors of 17 hp PTO or less that doesnt cost thousands.
An dump cart that will last for 50 years. My father still has his lawn cart from nearly 40 years ago from massey ferguson, the design and metal thickness CANNOT be matched by anyone I know of. Its either you make your own or deal with cheapos.

Everything is made in China now days....thats why it's cheap.

 

[ZLineFabrication]

Actually, they use "fingers" to pick up the debris. Here is another unit made by a different company: Agrimetal - Leader in golf and debris equipment

They do make a smaller unit, but it is pretty small, not PTO powered, and runs $5k-$7k...

Agrimetal - Leader in golf and debris equipment

The "fingers" are a great idea. this is basically a "beater bar" like in a standard household vacuum. it would help pick up larger debri.

sorry:double tap

 

[ZLineFabrication]

Ok, a couple of ideas. shoot me your thoughts.

1. large lawn roller 48"+ that doesnt cost $1k
2. large dethatcher 48"+
3. heavy duty lawn cart 3' x 5'?
4. Arena Groomers 5' + 3pt and pull type?
5. Ballast box w/ built in tool box.
6. i like the idea about a sprayer "kit"

Just want to keep this moving...

 

[Reg]

Ok, a couple of ideas. shoot me your thoughts.

1. large lawn roller 48"+ that doesnt cost $1k
2. large dethatcher 48"+
3. heavy duty lawn cart 3' x 5'?
4. Arena Groomers 5' + 3pt and pull type?
5. Ballast box w/ built in tool box.
6. i like the idea about a sprayer "kit"

Just want to keep this moving...

I can't see ANY need for a 5ft arena groomer.
GENERALLY you want as much width as you can get and horse arenas are already flat (slightly crowned if outdoors) and you need to KEEP that.
A narrow groomer is just going to encourage track development.
As with many 'finishing' implements ANY groomer needs to be wider than the tractor's tires.
Similar comment on a 4 ft roller, how do you get it out to the fence line ?
Other stuff on your list puts you right up against TSC and/or Agri-Supply.

Here's something I came across recently;
The GB Line range - GB Line ploughs - Reversible disc plough GBL DPH - Gregoire Besson - worldwide SOIL WORKING EQUIPMENTS specialist
It shouldn't be THAT HARD to develop a 2 disc version of this - maybe one that can convert to a 3 disc version with a "kit".
For very low volume - simplify, i.e. avoid the fancy special forgings/castings, use flat stock wherever possible, etc.

They don't export to USA, they compete with similar products from surrounding countries, there are MANY such manufacturers and there seems to be room for all of them.

 

[ZLineFabrication]

true...i hadnt looked at it that way. another tsc brand is not whats needed. they cover the "economy" market very well. we have built 6' rollers with good results, customers seemed happy at least.

the groomer idea has been in discussed with several farm owners and they all seem to want a more manageable option so that the hands can make a pass or two without too much trouble. we were thinking 72"84"96". again these are all "ideas".

the cart would be heavy duty, as requested. in different sizes.

im missing something... keep the feedback coming


Critisism is the breading ground of INNOVATION.

 

[spruce Deere]

A reverse rotation tiller that priced more COMPETITIVELY with standard rotation tillers... Cannot tell me it cost around a grand more to change position of the pinion in the gear box, a very minor modification.

Another item is the power rake or 'harley rake' basically a naked tiller... but 8 times as much in average price in like sizes when compared.... Thats not right

Figger out how to make simple mods or simple implements as mentioned above without having the obvious manufacturing greed that goes on.

For an example, king kutter tillers have become very well known and respected. Good product at a good price, its that simple.