Improving your welding?

[skylarkguy]

I have followed this thread with great interest. It was intriguing up until the last few posts. I tend to linger on the welding subject because I'm pretty new to it. Primarily what I have a problem with is the basic terminology. In my estimation a "professional" is only a person who got paid. I'm sure we have all had jobs performed by a professional that were dissatisfying at a minimum or perhaps required a lawsuit or rebuild for complete satisfaction. I think we tend to use the word professional as a surrogate for "expert". Perhaps "Master" is a better term. The terms are not necessarily interchangeable.

There are clearly very skilled weldors (perhaps we can call them masters) that contribute to this site. Arc weld, Shield Arc, CNCDan, Mark@Everlast come to mind. I value their contribution, and have learned a bunch. There are clearly a large number of other contributors that provide a great contribution as well (perhaps not masters but very skilled). The point is regardless of our relative expertise we can likely contribute to the conversation provided we do it in a thoughtful, calm, rational manner.

Discussions about technique, process, consumables, weld prep, are way more interesting for me then brand discussions or why x machine is better than y machine. The beauty of this forum is that we can log off and move on as needed.

 

[downsizingnow48]

I am following the thread in hopes of learning something about small MIG machines. Trying to decide what to buy. I don't much like having to wade through all the distracting personal insults to get to the genuinely useful information that the contributors have to offer.

 

[Sodo]

I have followed this thread with great interest. It was intriguing up until the last few posts. I tend to linger on the welding subject because I'm pretty new to it.
<snip>
Discussions about technique, process, consumables, weld prep, are way more interesting for me then brand discussions or why x machine is better than y machine. The beauty of this forum is that we can log off and move on as needed.

The beauty of any forum is when the experienced members let loose with HOW you CAN do it more often than telling you how you CAN'T. I have quite a lot of experience on the "CAN" side, and will share it willingly, but am coming up against a lot of CAN'T. I feel that's unnecessary.

Skylark you shouldn't have to "move on". There are plenty of members who will help with tricks and tips. If the Arcs (and etc) would HELP with tricks tips and enable the discussion rather than shut it down, that would be nice. They know many ways to mitigate an underpowered machine. Any experienced welder learns ways to do that on the upper end too, but they're unwilling to let loose with these tricks for the 120v machines because they have no experience on the lower end.

They won't give it up for some strange reason, probably because they would have to actually USE a 120v MIG and then admit that it's useful. Don't kid yourself these guys can make a 120v MIG sing! But for the moment they have no experience and no NEED, yet offer their null-advice regardless. They want to talk everybody out of 120v MIGs because they don't know much about it. But lots of members have this NEED, and 120v MIGs are the perfect entry-level welder for welding in the garage or driveway. For those with 220v in their shop and the space and the few extra dollars, get a 120v/220v, or a 220v.

I suspect its due to years and years of advising newbies that a stick-welder is better. But 120v MIG is "easy" and accessible and economical, and the new welder can make a nice looking weld rather quickly with a MIG. Even quicker with help. While a stick takes practice practice practice, (before you go ruin your first project with birdpoop!) which can be disappointing - and then you start to envy the skill of a stick welder. But you may not envy the time it takes to acquire that skill while the MIG welders are churning out nice welds with ease. I think stick welders often resent a MIG weldOR, who's "getting it for free".

 

[skylarkguy]

Well I think a lot of folks on this site "let loose" with information.

I for one am learning on a 220v Thunderbolt AC/DC stick welder. When I first fired it up with 6011 rod, on AC, it was hard...what I learned on the forum was that DC starts a bit more easily. So I tried that. Turns out it worked for me. Yesterday I discovered the joys of welding clean metal vs rusty angle iron that takes half a day to prep. I like practicing with my stick welder, because when i finally do put down a bead that shows good penetration i feel i have accomplished something.

Point is, we take the information that we need at the time we need it. I feel no need to convince others my way is the right way, or my machine is the best. What I do value is contributors providing me their stories about what worked for them, pictures of high quality welds, suggestions on how to prep repairs or virgin projects. I'm a gleaner, and having all these guys input their experience into the database provides me a huge resource. "moving on" only means I can take or leave it, no harm, no foul. So to the OP...keep posting.

 

[Fifelaker]

The tips have all been said. Bevel the joint, pre-heat, use 100% Co2. Multi pass does not do anything if there is no penetration and can make things worse. Like I said earlier if the metal is over 1/8" I use the stick/Tig or the Oxy/ acetylene . The only mig I own is the Lincoln 135sp.

 

[Sodo]

Well said, but for the record I never said one welding method is better than another. They are all useful, and the most useful could be the welder that you HAVE. All I've ever said is that a 120v MIG can be a very useful machine for a lot of projects, against the experience on this forum which (currently) says you're wasting your time with 120v.

If I ever use the stick-welder again I suppose I could glean some help from posting pics of my attempts. Currently I have no 220v but if that changes I will fire up the stick welder, at least just to convince myself I remember how to do it. Or weld dirty metal or weld outside in the wind.

 

[roadhunter]

Arc, that's not what I meant. You advise newbies to choose a machine like a pro welder. The Pro welders agree, because it applies to them. The wannabe pros agree because it makes them feel better. But its useless info to a newbie, and frankly 90% of the rest. The pro welder already knew it, didn't need any help, so how did your advice help the forum? Either zilch, or perhaps negatively.

For example a pro welder who has everything cut & fit & tacked by lower-skilled assistants, and all he has to do is weld at a level commensurate with his payscale. He plans the welds to accommodate his machine's duty cycle so he doesn't get stopped in the wrong place. All he has to do, is produce a weld that gets passed by the weld inspector, which is not an insignificant task - and EVERY TIME! This stuff has a curiosity component but is no help for a newbie to choose (or avoid) a new welding machine for hobby/maintenance on a tractor forum.

I do learn from your posts, but have figured out there is often horsepucky in them. I find easy to throw that stuff out but when I see the newbies spouting it off, it tends to bug me. Not only as proof they are not getting the information they need but that you can't see the effect you are having in lording over this forum. I don't believe this would happen in real life (like Shield Arc helping someone in person, vs. his internet persona) I think it's only because of the internet.

Here's my assessment of the dynamic. Everybody's in the same room, so you advise newbies as if they are pros. Because there are a few pro welders in the room you have to choose between keeping up your reputation, and actually helping the newbies get going. You are concerned that your pro-welder associates might think you're "washed up", so always include a bunch of pro-level detail that is completely unnecessary, and does not apply to the situation, then feel compelled to defend it. That can happen on the internet. I don't believe it reflects real life.

A hobby/maintenance guy might be able to enhance this forum, but you chase them out. Leaving only yourself and a very short list of other pro welders to use the forum to give and get a pat on the back. IMHO that's leaving big holes in what's needed on a hobby/maintenance forum. Just look how careful everyone is, there's almost NO weld pics (other than test-plates) and everybody has to compose long disclaimers, trying to anticipate every attack.

IMHO, of course.

It is humbling to have a thread started in my honor that hit 9 pages before I even discovered it. Does that mean I've made an impression? If yes, then my only hope is for this forum to have more contributors and less "Lording over".

This. The "pro" welders on TBN are a double edged sword. On one side they offer all sorts of great advice and can offer help for just about any situation but on the other their constant ego stroking and insults toward non "pro" welders does not contribute anything positive whatsoever. IMO these fellas can do more harm than good when they get stuck in a rut (insulting 110v welders and people who use them) like they are currently. You can look at some of these folks and see that all they know is welding, all they want to talk about all day is welding and how great they are at it. They want to tell you every welding machine they have ever run, How they have built so many things they can't even remember them all and how even just 1 hour with them would change your life. And how you couldn't pass a weld test or even work at the welding department at home depot. It's really pathetic when you get right down to it.

It is obvious that you have really gotten to them after reading their comments. The fact that so many of their posts are about you and 110 volt welders is quite funny. Basically you burned them on the 110v welder topic and they are doing everything they can to keep telling us how 110v welders are worthless even though we all know how useful these 110v welders can be. I remember when this all started and some "pro" welder idiot was telling a 70 year old woman interested in doing small welding projects at home how she needed a big 220v machine to avoid duty cycle problems. Talk about stupid advice. Guy completely made a fool of himself on that one and has been trying to get back at you ever since but all he is doing is showing off his personality problems on the internet.

 

[ThomasH]

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It is obvious that you have really gotten to them after reading their comments. The fact that so many of their posts are about you and 110 volt welders is quite funny. Basically you burned them on the 110v welder topic and they are doing everything they can to keep telling us how 110v welders are worthless even though we all know how useful these 110v welders can be. I remember when this all started and some "pro" welder idiot was telling a 70 year old woman interested in doing small welding projects at home how she needed a big 220v machine to avoid duty cycle problems. Talk about stupid advice. Guy completely made a fool of himself on that one and has been trying to get back at you ever since but all he is doing is showing off his personality problems on the internet.

IMHO it is really low class to come on a forum and make personal attacks. If you want to actually help someone, please do. Otherwise you help no one and run people off with this kind of trash.

Don't bother replying, I am through trying to ask people to be helpful ...

 

[Scooby074]

You cant use amps you didnt pay for.

With a 120v machine you have less amperage capacity at the receptacle than a 220v machine which means less heat is available to put into the weld. Fact of life.

Yes you can cheat with a 120v mig and weld thicker than specs. Beveling and preheat and wiresize can help get "more" than you paid for out of the unit. For non-critical welds, like tractor impliments, this is a non issue. However if your welded contraption interacts with the public in any way, this becomes a pretty severe safety issue (think cold but pretty welds on a trailer hitch).

Before I had a big mig at home, Id tack with my mig and finish weld with a 240v stick. Best of both worlds. Easy of tacking with the mig, penetration with the stick.

Now, my 120v mig is pretty much dedicated to autobody. Its hard to beat for that purpose.

Sodo, you have a 240v machine there. Why not get a 240v setup? Once you make the switch you'll never go back to 120 unless you need portability (gen power).

 

[Sodo]

I weld in 3 places, at my work, at home in my driveway, and at my shed in the woods. I suspect I will always be welding material within tha capacity of 120v.

Someday I will have 240 in all 3 places. Which will be nice for the seldom occurrences of material thicker than 1/4". I'm not yet convinced its worth the $$$ and effort. I've had very seldom need for 240 and compensating with simple & easy methods has been more sensible than going after 240v.

Back on-topic, someday a project will require it and I'll run the 240v and/or buy a 15HP generator, and then I'll brush up on my stick too.