In a Pickle CK20hst or Bota B7610

[RedDog]

<font color="blue"> I just think that the reality is both will just as easily pull an identical box blade with no real or functional difference/advantage.</font>

I really shouldn't comment since I do not know either tractor, but since you always comment about the Kioti's, (even though you have never been around one, have you?) I feel compelled to reply. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

How can you say there would not be any "real advantage" to a heavier tractor pulling a boxblade? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I really want to hear this one!!! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

RedDog

 

[To20Chris]

Weight = traction, all other things being equal (tires, surface, etc.). About the only thing that changes that is if the darn thing is sinking in mud up to the frame, in which case the BB isn't going to work anyway.

The best choice here depends on what you want to use it for - if you're most worried about leaving tracks and willing to give up traction, get the lighter unit. If you want more traction for pulling things (like a BB) or digging with a FEL, get the heavier unit. Since this is for preparing finished lawns, light weight might be more important here, but it comes at a cost in less traction. Depends on how soft the ground is when you're preparing it. I suspect that when the ground is firm enough to use the implement, that neither tractor will be a problem with tire ruts.

As far as structure is concerned, that 660lbs goes somewhere - put them side by side and crawl around and you'll see where it is. They are both good designs, just designed for completely different uses.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

RedDog, yes I have been around a couple of them and said many times that the CK and the DK line impresses me. Further, I seriously considered buying a DK40/45 (the Cub version), and if they come out with an HST version I probably will, if they don't then I'll probably upgrade my Kubota to another one or perhaps to a NH.

What is being missed here is the BIG picture. Focusing only on weight when a primary purpose of this tractor is to run a PTO powered implement that the CK20 barely has enough power to run is a critical issue. As this guy is obviously a landscaper doing jobs commercially, it is more important to focus on TIME = MONEY rather than weight = traction. As the Rota Darian guys told him he could use the Kioti but he'd have to go REALLY SLOW because of the low PTO hp, it simply makes sense to consider that as probably one of the biggest factors.

As for the weight issue, the B7610 is a ladder frame design, by its very nature it is a light weight, yet strong structure. The weight is not in the engine housing, it is designed out of that housing and supported by the frame.

As to your real question about how I can say that the weight is not a real advantage, that is pretty easy to answer with practical use. Neither tractor is capable of efficiently & effectively operating a 5' box blade in a commercial operation where TIME = MONEY. Both are capable of operating a 4' box blade. As both are HEAVY ENOUGH to run only the 48" box blade, there is no REAL weight advantage. Since their practical limits are the same, from the standpoint of the capabilities with a box blade, they are equals. Go back and read all my comments, I pointed out where the CK20 was superior to the B7610. I, however, focused on the issue of PTO hp as that seems to be the most critical issue the original poster has to deal with, and you'll also see where I recommended and he dismissed the LK series (didn't go slow enough). He also is very concerned about size so when people brought up the CK25/CK30 to get the critical PTO hp they also suggested a size he could not use. I went back to the B7610 as being the same size as the CK20 but giving him the critical PTO hp.

This can be argued all day long. There are a lot of tractors that will generate the HP he needs, in the size he is looking for, with the HST transmission he needs. And as long as they can pull a 4' box blade effectively, they are heavy enough. I focused on the 2 brands he asked about.

 

[RedDog]

<font color="blue"> the CK and the DK line impresses me </font>
I can agree with the DK line. I've never been on a CK, but by the specs and nice way they look, they do impress me!


<font color="blue"> RedDog, yes I have been around a couple of them </font>

I've been "around" Kubota's too. Never driven or sat on one that I can recall. I do not comment on them because I really do not know anything about them. It sounds to me like your relationship to Kioti is about the same as mine to Kubota. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif And it ain't very much. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif


If both tractors are pulling the same size boxblade and snag a root or rock, I believe the over 500lbs difference is going to make a difference!

RedDog

 

[JayC]

<font color="red"> Yup, but don't say that too loudly, because I've been chastised for saying that same thing. </font>

hehe I know. I saw the threads. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I debated if I should say it, but the fact of the matter is, it is just my opinion and as such nobody is forced to agree with it.

 

[Bob_Skurka]

OK, I've test driven the DKs. I've said that before. I've seen the CK20 and CK30 in action but have not had the pleasure of operating one in real working conditions. I've played with them (running) in non-working conditions. Believe I've said that before too. I've also said the CK20 is probably the best 21hp tractor available today. I have also played with the B7610.

As for the observation that the CK20's added weight if you hit a root would be an advantage, yes, I will agree with you. It does have a slight advantage. I'd even be willing to say that the CK20 might be able to use a 4.25' box blade while the B7610 would be limited to a 4' unit, but as box blades come in 12" increments, the real world operation is again both can use a 4' unit.

That does not negate the disadvantage of the lower PTO hp for the CK when operating the Rota Darion which is a primary concern.

The box blade/traction issue will very likely not slow down his work with the B7610. The PTO hp issue will, as he stated earlier in the thread, slow down his work with the CK20. Again, TIME = MONEY.

Now if you want to really get into a good debate, why not pick a heavier small frame tractor with mid-20's hp and chat with me? Lets look at the 26hp N.H. it has a loader statistically equal to the CK20's, in a frame size that is the same, with more PTO hp than the B7610, and as for weight it fits right down the middle between the two. About 300# lighter than the CK and about 300# heavier than the B. Or we could look at the little Mahindras, they have plenty of weight, hp and are still relatively small, and have HST available too. Like I said, there are lots of choices. Every one is going to have to be some sort of a statistical compromise, the best thing to do is to offer some objectivity to the poster to show the pros and cons and let him decide.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

I never realized that he was talking about a turf renovator. We have many, many guys who run these and I would never dream of doing it commercialy at the bottom end of the HP range. I would investigate some other options, even if they tell you 16.5hp will suffice I would question that. IMO, the TZ26 will be perfect providing that it fits onto 3pt properly. Weight is of no advantage for these, the tractor only pulls the renovator forward, since 3pt hitches don't have down force the weight of the renovator is whats doing the work.

 

[Dewser45]

I wanted to thank everybody for their input, after many hours on the phone yesterday with the attachment people and a few dealers I think I have decided to go ahead with the Kioti CK20, I looked at the NH TZ's and they just don't have enough 3pt lift capacity as the Rotadairon weighs 650, its a hefty boy. I even talked to a gentleman that was running oneon a smaller Bota and he said he has no trouble and if he does he just slows down a bit. It also does a better job the slower you can go. So with 1 mph being the max speed if I can do .5 I will be very happy. The price I have found on the CK20 was 13800 with the r4's and a FEL. I am really looking forward to getting it in the dirt. Be a few before it is all here but I will post some pics when I get it all together. Again thanks to everyone, what a great wealth of info here... I will be reading everyday or a couple time a day here...

Don

 

[GerardC]

Good luck and definitely keep us posted. Gerard

 

[JayC]

Yes, keep us posted. Also, be sure to post photos of the CK20 using that attachment. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif