Inexpensive Welding Solution?????

[AlanB]

Pat, I do not understand all the dynamics of TIG and wave forms, but I believe that you have to have the "other side" of the wave with TIG to do the aluminum to get the cleaning action needed to break the oxide surface up. So did you get actually to both sides of the line with the sine wave or did it always stay on the one side? I am probably just not understanding, but it sounds like pulsed DC, and to the best of my knowledge, that will not work. What you described, ie, not seeing the change, in the material sounded an awful lot like welding Al with DC which is what made me make the comment. I would have told you to slide the wave balance on my machine to more cleaning action till you saw the puddle change.

Could be way off base, and I certainly do not fully understand the whole thing, but that would be my belief.

As too the Alu MIG, that is why they invented spoolguns. The problem with running Alu on a "standard" larger mig, is the normal length of the gun. Again, back to my spaghetti, you are lengthining the straw. Some production applications use a very short lead Mig, but most either go too a spool gun, or high volume folks go to what is called a "push pull" set up, where the machine pushes the wire forward, and the gun has another set of powered rollers pulling it forward as well.

I have done it in a pinch several times with a baby mig (lincoln 100, Hobart whatever, and a Miller 130) If you are going to do it, get another liner just for the alu wire. But sometimes when it starts going wrong and you are cleaning out the 3rd birdsnest of the evening, it can drive you flat out nuts.

Gem, the cast is usaully a bit harder, as again, the crust or oxide layer is usually tougher. One thing that may help you is to literally stir the base metal with you fill rod to break that crust, sometimes cast can be truly miserable, because it is very rare that you truly KNOW what base metal composition you are working with. Sometimes on cast you just keep going in, grinding out, and building back.

 

[thingy]

Well,I ain't worked with much aluminum,,,its a whole nother ball game,,aluminum has a greyish oxide on it that you gotta clean off first,cause its got a higher melting temp than the aluminum,,and your wires gotta be clean,,that alone can cause you big problems,,mig and tig,,,when using tig you gotta use ac current,argon gas and you don't grind your tungsten to a sharp point like for steel,,you make it pointy but kinda round at the end a little,you really need a machine with high frequency too,
mig,dcep and argon and spool gun,or somekinda gun that pulls the wire and is made for this,,also,,your not short circuiting with aluminum,,you want a spray type mode[as most of you are when mig welding steel,well,all of you]edit here,that was confusing even for me,,,you are short circuiting on steel,,,,believe you want spray mode with aluminum,,which means higher amps,and or smaller wire generally speaking,,edit done,well, for now,,,,
Its not all that hard to weld it,if you got the right equipement ,and got all the little things worked out,,but,,,,and you can multipass it too!! had to throw that in,,,,thingy

 

[AlanB]

Good one thing...

 

[patrick_g]

Pat, I do not understand all the dynamics of TIG and wave forms, but I believe that you have to have the "other side" of the wave with TIG to do the aluminum to get the cleaning action needed to break the oxide surface up. So did you get actually to both sides of the line with the sine wave or did it always stay on the one side? I am probably just not understanding, but it sounds like pulsed DC, and to the best of my knowledge, that will not work.

Yup, pulsed DC with variable pulse width and constant (high) open circuit voltage. This unit welded really well through rust and even chromed bumpers.

Pat

 

[thingy]

Pat,you do alot of that chrome bumper welding? You probably picked that up in your experimental battery welding days or something? Gotta watch those fumes from them chrome bumpers now. thingy

 

[patrick_g]

Pat,you do alot of that chrome bumper welding? You probably picked that up in your experimental battery welding days or something? Gotta watch those fumes from them chrome bumpers now. thingy

Actually I never welded with a battery for a power source but I did use a battery to power "cut rod."

The previous posts were discussing battery operated welders for stick and a combo unit for stick or TIG. One model had a 120VAC outlet on the side and the heat control varied the power out of the outlet. Many power tools are AD/DC so the heat control became a speed control for power tools. Handy for using a grinder when no AC was available.

The basic unit weighed 23 lbs (without any batts) They typically were operated from a pair of 100 AH 12 volt batts. We had an arrangement where they would be charged in parallel but power the welder in series.

Part of this project was an outgrowth of the Army's interest in a man pack welder.

I didn't do much chrome bumper welding except for demos to show how well it worked.

Pat

 

[thingy]

Well good,just was worried for you is all,thingy

 

[patrick_g]

Well good,just was worried for you is all,thingy

Yeah, breathing the fumes from lots of different welding processes is NOT GOOD. I still weld galvanized but try to avoid the fumes with a fan, a breeze, or due to my years of diving experience I can hold my breath longer than the average bear.

Pat

 

[gemini5362]

Yeah, breathing the fumes from lots of different welding processes is NOT GOOD. I still weld galvanized but try to avoid the fumes with a fan, a breeze, or due to my years of diving experience I can hold my breath longer than the average bear.

Pat

I am going to assume you are talking about freediving since we all know that you dont hold your breathe when you use scuba gear

 

[patrick_g]

I am going to assume you are talking about freediving since we all know that you dont hold your breathe when you use scuba gear

I was quite an accomplished free diver (snorkeler) before getting into SCUBA. It didn't take me long to learn to breathe underwater instead of holding my breath. Little things like a free ascent from 100 ft plus require you to not hold your breath. I do practice a form of breath control but it does not include long term breath holding. This extends your dive time over just breathing naturally which for beginners especially, wastes a lot of air.

Before my wife got her open ocean dive certificate a friend with a SCUBA rig on let her use his regulator while he was wearing the tank. He told her to just keep breathing and everything would be all right. Well, she saw something interesting and headed down to see it. He held his breath (didn't have a safety second) and went along. Eventually he had to force her to the surface so he could breathe. Later we all had a good laugh.

Pat

 

[cp1969]

"The least expensive welding solution" would be a friend's welder that you can borrow.

In the long run, an inexpensive (fill in the blank) solution is usually not the cheapest thing you can buy. I have learned this the hard way, far too many times.

FWIW, you can put WTB ads on Craig's List as well.

 

[Egon]

I have found that the cheapest welder is one that belongs to a fellow that knows what he's doing and doesnt charge you an arm and a leg. That way you are pretty well assured you have a good weld.

Now I know this will offend a lot of people that have their own welders and have learned on their own but facts is facts. A lot of them home grown welds just may not be that sturdy.

 

[Tom_Veatch]

...Now I know this will offend a lot of people that have their own welders and have learned on their own but facts is facts. A lot of them home grown welds just may not be that sturdy.

Well now, Egon, I have two welders, stick and mig, and most of what I know about welding comes from my own trial and error. So, I guess I'm one of those people you expect to offend. But, am I offended? Absolutely not! I'd be foolish to trust my welds where there is significant risk to life or limb.

 

[river rat]

Boy, I guess I'm gonna be a pariah if I state my opinion on here, the way it's going, but here goes, anyhow! I bought an old used Lincoln "buzz-box" 40+ years ago, and learned on it and used it for twenty years. My Mom (who had learned how to O/A weld on jerry cans during the war) taught me how to gas weld, and I built my first boat trailer that way out of steel I'd salvaged from the old city dump. A cousin taught me one evening how to arc weld, and I found and bought the old Lincoln. Since then, I've repaired my trucks, built trailers (which I still use), designed furniture for the house & patio, and built and installed hi-rise signs all over Missouri and surrounding states. We have graduated from the old buzzbox (sold it years ago, still in good working order); we now have two Miller bobcats on the sign cranes, a large Lincoln wire-feed in the shop, and a couple of Hypertherm plasmas. My son (Mcfly) and I have built trailers, tractor implements, or anything else we need. We have signs 80 feet in the air that weigh as much as the family car, which were put there by a crane than is held together in part by our uneducated, self-taught welds. I don't remember ever having a welded part break.
All that drivel to say that if you wanna learn to weld, buy a decent piece of equipment, cabbage onto every piece of scrap steel you can, ask for advice when you need to, and GO FOR IT!
There's a whole world of things out there waiting for someone to weld them up ... don't listen to the naysayers! There's nothing wrong with learning for yourself.

 

[Sully2]

I have found that the cheapest welder is one that belongs to a fellow that knows what he's doing and doesnt charge you an arm and a leg. That way you are pretty well assured you have a good weld.

Now I know this will offend a lot of people that have their own welders and have learned on their own but facts is facts. A lot of them home grown welds just may not be that sturdy.

Night classes for 7 weeks taking welding...taught me exactly what you say is true. It may "stick together"...but that dont mean its a "proper" weld!...

 

[Egon]

Thanks Scully.

It's not that you can't do it on your own but the big factor is that you may not know what you don't know.

 

[river rat]

That's how you learn, though .... My point is that if someone's worrying about spending $50 for a welder (I've been there) they may not be able to lay out the cash for lessons. Also, lessons aren't even an option everywhere, and IMO, that's not a good enough reason to not learn how to weld.

 

[kwolfe]

That's how you learn, though .... My point is that if someone's worrying about spending $50 for a welder (I've been there) they may not be able to lay out the cash for lessons. Also, lessons aren't even an option everywhere, and IMO, that's not a good enough reason to not learn how to weld.

Thanks rat,
Money is one thing, but with small kids at home, I don't have the time to go to welding classes. Over the years, I have found that books and the internet can provide a wealth of kowledge on almost any subject. With research and practice, I am sure that I will be able to get the hang of it. It will just take patience and practice.

 

[gemini5362]

Thanks rat,
Money is one thing, but with small kids at home, I don't have the time to go to welding classes. Over the years, I have found that books and the internet can provide a wealth of kowledge on almost any subject. With research and practice, I am sure that I will be able to get the hang of it. It will just take patience and practice.

Kwolfe I agree with you. I learned to weld by just welding. I am lucky where I work at I can go back and work with the welder all I want. I do not do welding that I think could be hazardous to others. I would not build a trailer for instance or weld something for someone else. I do small projects for myself. I build ramps for my trailer, weld some items around the house. I am sure you read the post from the person that makes signs. You can learn to weld on your own that is just a slower harder process.

 

[Sully2]

Thanks rat,
Money is one thing, but with small kids at home, I don't have the time to go to welding classes. Over the years, I have found that books and the internet can provide a wealth of kowledge on almost any subject. With research and practice, I am sure that I will be able to get the hang of it. It will just take patience and practice.

Books and the internet can ASSIST in your learning...but if you think your going to LEARN welding from reading..your flat wrong! Its the HOURS of "doing it" and seeing all your screw-ups and having someone that DOES KNOW how to weld properly explaining to you what you didnt do right ( over and over again...lol) My class set me back $385 total ( $85 for the ***** book!!) and a "farmer buddy" of mine that "welds"..told me it was a waste of my $$. I should have just bought a stick welder and practiced instead...well...after getting done with class..I realize now Id have spent $300 in ELECTRICITY to learn what I have..SO FAR!

I read back to your posts in the beginning..and you state that your wleding will be "1/4" to maybe 1/2" thick stuff"...items you will use with your BX1500..well let me tell ya this. NO WELDER that you can buy NEW for the sort of $$ you have to spend....OR...any used welder in any condition that you would even have in the garage is going to weld up 3/8 to 1/2" material for you. Im not big on "cosmetics" but "junk is junk"...and thats not to say there arent SOME good used buys "out there"...but unless some old bird has croaked...why is he going to get rid of a perfectly good welder for "chicken feed" if its in good shape??? Far too many use the phrase "Someday I'll make a ??" and just let it sit!

Ive seen you say that with "kids at home" you dont have the time to take night clases. Who's watching those kids when your on the tractor???

IMHO..your between a rock and a hard spot..and buying some "junk" welder and attempting to "learn" by your lonesome..aint going to work..Im sorry to say. You need a welder that "can do the job" ( dont have to be brand new now) and you need someone who knows what they are doing ( welding wise) to assist you when uou are welding to get the hang of it.