Infiniti G37 dead battery again.

[N80]

I have a 2009 Infiniti G37 coupe with a manual transmission (a dinosaur by today's standards) that I love. Got it used about 4 years ago. It is my wife's car. Low miles when I got it and we still don't put a lot of miles on it but it gets driven almost every day.

For the last two years it has been ruining batteries. Cheap batteries. Posted a while back about terminal clamps not fitting properly. Got a new, cheap, battery. Worked fine for about 6 months then crapped out. Got a middle of the road battery, started to fail immediately, took car to Nissan dealership. They said it was the wrong kind of battery (???). The place where we bought it acknowledged this and gave us a new, correct battery. Now that its cold, it is failing. Had to jump it yesterday.

Car functions properly otherwise. No warning lights. No codes. Wife, who has to deal with all this, called local Nissan dealership that we have dealt with a lot. They said they could run an expensive diagnostic and would still not likely find the problem and said not to waste our money and that we needed to take it to an Inifiniti dealership (an hour away). ?????

Battery takes a jump and charged fully off my trickle charger.

So......questions..........how does one go about finding what is draining the batteries in this car........very slowly and over long periods of time? Seems impossible to me. Second question, would buying a high end, high amp (or whatever spec) battery be likely to change anything or would I just be ruining a more expensive battery? Any thoughts welcome. We love this car and would hate to have to sell it...................you can't find them with manuals anymore.

 

[aczlan]

Disconnect one battery terminal (key off and out), turn off the dome light(s), connect an ammeter between the battery and the terminal and see how many milliamps are being drawn. If its more than 40-80 milliamps, start pulling fuses to see what circuit is causing the problem.
I would also have the alternator checked to make sure it doesn't have a diode going bad which can fry a battery (put a meter set to AC Volts across the battery terminals with the engine running and see how many volts it reads, should be under 2 volts).

Aaron Z

 

[N80]

Okay, that is a plan I can get my head around. But, as I've stated before, I am marginally intelligent and a serious DIY'er but I'm a bona fide idiot when it comes to electricity. Do you have a recommendation for a reasonably priced ammeter and where is a good place to get one, is this testing done with the engine on or off, is it done with whatever the fuse is running on or off (radio, AC, heat warmer, etc)?

Thanks!

 

[RNeumann]

Not trying to be a jack wagon- but if the above (correct way) doesn’t make enough sense to you causing you to question whether or not to do this with a running vehicle or not (vehicle off) I’d suggest taking it to a shop that can do the above test.

If you are still thinking this is something you want to tackle I’d suggest starting with the basics of DC current in a vehicle (chassis ground) and work your way up from there. I’m guessing after 4-8 hours of YouTube you will understand enough to tackle your issue.
Btw- a reputable shop with a good tech should be able to isolate your issue in well under an hour. The time to make the fix will depend on the issue. It’s not some expensive test as your dealer/stealer is suggesting.

 

[N80]

Not trying to be a jack wagon- but if the above (correct way) doesn’t make enough sense to you causing you to question whether or not to do this with a running vehicle or not (vehicle off) I’d suggest taking it to a shop that can do the above test.

I don't mind hiring out what I don't understand, and I'm sure my question exposes my lack of understanding, but the procedure he described is simple enough if I know the specifics (whether I understand them or not.)

If you are still thinking this is something you want to tackle I’d suggest starting with the basics of DC current in a vehicle (chassis ground) and work your way up from there.

I do have some basic understanding. Have wired winch into pick-up truck, with proper fuse, ground, all that. Cookbook type stuff. I can follow a recipe.

Btw- a reputable shop with a good tech should be able to isolate your issue in well under an hour. The time to make the fix will depend on the issue. It’s not some expensive test as your dealer/stealer is suggesting.

Well, not a knock on all dealerships but I find the level of competence in many of them to be sub par and this guy clearly did not want the job. And I understand the test may not be expensive but in my experience I'd guess this dealership, although generally honest, would take two hours. Two hours of moderately competent labor at a dealership already expecting not to be able to handle the problem would probably be a waste of several hundred bucks that they don't refund if they can't find the problem.

I do have a reputable, honest and competent general mechanic that I can take it to to do the testing you guys describe but he is not into the high tech stuff, so if it is something in the GPS or engine management he would not be able to fix it.

I'm game to do the job and probably need an ammeter having as many vehicles as I do and a general inclination to work on them myself.

Thanks again.

 

[N80]

Okay, re-read. Now understand process. Was at work when I posted this. All of this sounds easy enough for me to do at least to get pointed in the right direction.

Now another question, theoretical: If I do both tests aczlan recommended, and they are both within normal limits, is there any chance that a beefier battery would help. The reason I'm asking, and this may be nonsense, but this car has always been harder to start than my other similar cars....but not by much. In other words, with my 350Z you hear the starter spin and immediately it fires up. The G37 always seems to take a fraction of a second or maybe an additional spin or two of the starter to turn over. Most people probably wouldn't notice it at all but it is clearly different. Granted, my 350z and previous two Infinitis were 3.5 liter engines and that may be the only reason there is a difference. But the G37 takes longer to start even than my pickup trucks. It is also worse on cold days.

So my thinking (which may be backward) is that maybe with each start there is too much strain on an underpowered/cheap-o battery and that is wearing them out faster? Not sure it would since it gets recharged while the vehicle is running. Just a thought.

 

[RNeumann]

Ok I like the fight! Any good auto parts store or hardware store will have good “multimeters”. These will check AC and DC voltage, amps and ohms. Digital meters are generally considered better however some lower end units may not display quick and or little spikes. With that if you want a $10-$20 unit I’d be tempted to get an analog needle style. If you want to spend a bit more (and you do!) get a digital meter. With a little love the tool will last more than a lifetime. I still have and use the one I got when I was a teenager. If you are a top of the line guy Fluke makes nice stuff. They do make meters that will do a lot more but rarely does one run into a situation that would warrant the extra cost.
Any diagnosis should be done with a systematic approach. Write down the results as you go along.
Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[RNeumann]

Okay, re-read. Now understand process. Was at work when I posted this. All of this sounds easy enough for me to do at least to get pointed in the right direction.

Now another question, theoretical: If I do both tests aczlan recommended, and they are both within normal limits, is there any chance that a beefier battery would help. The reason I'm asking, and this may be nonsense, but this car has always been harder to start than my other similar cars....but not by much. In other words, with my 350Z you hear the starter spin and immediately it fires up. The G37 always seems to take a fraction of a second or maybe an additional spin or two of the starter to turn over. Most people probably wouldn't notice it at all but it is clearly different. Granted, my 350z and previous two Infinitis were 3.5 liter engines and that may be the only reason there is a difference. But the G37 takes longer to start even than my pickup trucks. It is also worse on cold days.

So my thinking (which may be backward) is that maybe with each start there is too much strain on an underpowered/cheap-o battery and that is wearing them out faster? Not sure it would since it gets recharged while the vehicle is running. Just a thought.

No chance....u r scaring me again.....haha
Keep asking the questions and the TBN peanut gallery will come through

 

[N80]

No chance....u r scaring me again.....haha
Keep asking the questions and the TBN peanut gallery will come through

So an underpowered battery will last as long as a higher powered one? It might be true but certainly isn't intuitive.

Anyway, any reason this item would not be sufficient for my infrequent use?

Amazon.com: INNOVA 332 Auto-Ranging Digital Multimeter: Automotive

As an aside, my Kubota L4400 is still on its original battery. It is 10 years old and goes weeks without use. Go figure.

Edit: I looked at the Flukes. Good stuff. More than I can afford. This Innova brand makes a more full featured unit for $75 but I have no idea what I'd be getting for the extra $50.

 

[RNeumann]

So an underpowered battery will last as long as a higher powered one? It might be true but certainly isn't intuitive.

Anyway, any reason this item would not be sufficient for my infrequent use?

Amazon.com: INNOVA 332 Auto-Ranging Digital Multimeter: Automotive

As an aside, my Kubota L4400 is still on its original battery. It is 10 years old and goes weeks without use. Go figure.

Edit: I looked at the Flukes. Good stuff. More than I can afford. This Innova brand makes a more full featured unit for $75 but I have no idea what I'd be getting for the extra $50.

Your little motor uses a gear reduction starter that doesn’t pull that much when compared to standard starters and or larger motors. You have a short that is killing the battery- it’s not the battery size. The only thing a bigger battery will do is take a bit longer to kill and cost you more money.

With regards to the meter- save the extra $50. The links shows a meter that will do what you need and is highly rated.

 

[LittleBill21]

the meter you linked is prolly even over kill, 99% of most testing can be done with a 10 dollar meter

have any of these bad battery's been tested? killed means alot of different things

also what is a cheap battery?

generally only the alternator can kill a battery that quickly, its either overcharging or undercharging, does the battery still have water in it when its dead?

alot of ways to go before throwing another battery at it

 

[N80]

the meter you linked is prolly even over kill, 99% of most testing can be done with a 10 dollar meter

have any of these bad battery's been tested? killed means alot of different things

also what is a cheap battery?

generally only the alternator can kill a battery that quickly, its either overcharging or undercharging, does the battery still have water in it when its dead?

alot of ways to go before throwing another battery at it

Cheap batteries is what I've been getting from AutoZone or Advance, I don't recall. (Its a whole other story, just realized after several years that these had to be replaced more often than supposedly higher quality in various other vehicles. Neither of the cheap ones were completely dead but just wouldn't keep a full charge and would require a jump more often and then wouldn't jump at all. They'd eventually take a full charge with the trickle charger but it wouldn't last. I still use one of them for a portable chainsaw sharpener.

Plenty of water in them. But remember, these are not dying quickly per se. The current one is 8 months old.

I'll test as azclan recommended and get back to you guys once I get a multi tester.

I'm also going to get one of those emergency starter batteries to keep in the trunk. It has only stranded my wife once but that is too much.

 

[RNeumann]

Cheap batteries is what I've been getting from AutoZone or Advance, I don't recall. (Its a whole other story, just realized after several years that these had to be replaced more often than supposedly higher quality in various other vehicles. Neither of the cheap ones were completely dead but just wouldn't keep a full charge and would require a jump more often and then wouldn't jump at all. They'd eventually take a full charge with the trickle charger but it wouldn't last. I still use one of them for a portable chainsaw sharpener.

Plenty of water in them. But remember, these are not dying quickly per se. The current one is 8 months old.

I'll test as azclan recommended and get back to you guys once I get a multi tester.

I'm also going to get one of those emergency starter batteries to keep in the trunk. It has only stranded my wife once but that is too much.

Both of those Auto Parts places should have a Midtronics tester to verify battery function.

 

[triptester]

There are a few things that can drain a battery that are often over looked. Loose glove box and trunk light switches that don't always shut off. Phone chargers left plugged in, the circuitry often uses energy even when not charging a phone.
I pulled the wife's new car out of the garage to do a project and left the key in the ignition about 8 hours later the battery was dead. Some vehicles energize circuits once the key is inserted before starting.

 

[tjkubota93]

You said it is driven every day but not many miles put on it. If you don't run the car long enough to recharge what was used starting it, the battery suffers and fails after a while. Short trips aren't good for anything on a car. I only use ac delco batterys or something of equivalent quality. Get the most cca for your application. And do the draw test and ac ripple test.

 

[aczlan]

Both of those Auto Parts places should have a Midtronics tester to verify battery function.

If you are near an Autozone, take the car there and have them test the battery and charging system. They have a tester that will check that the alternator is working as expected and they don't charge to use it (they want to sell you a battery/alternator after all).
Then you just need the amp draw test to see if it is being drained when it is off.

Aaron Z

 

[LD1]

Some very good advise given thus far.

I agree that its unlikely that your previous batteries were truly killed.

Dead and needing a jump start.....and a totally killed battery are two different things.

And as others have said....either the alternator isnt working properly....or something is drawing juice when the car is off.

Regarding a meter to test current draw......a note of caution....

You are typically testing for something in the milliamp range. And meters usually have two options for testing inline current....one is 10a fused....and the other is usually 2a fused to test milliamps.

Start on the 10a setting. Unhook battery cable.....then hook meter leads up to battery cable and battery post to complete the circuit again.

Make SURE that key is off, doors are closed, hood light unhooked, etc. Cause those will give false readings.
If nothing registers....or is below 2.....go to the milliamp setting. 50mA or less is considered normal. anything more.....start with accessory fuses and pull them one by one. Like interior lighting, cigarette lighter, trunk lighting, etc.

 

[N80]

Thanks for the continued good advice guys. We have had the battery tested at AutoZone (or Advance, I don't remember). Both times they indicated that the battery needed to be replaced. On one of those they pro-rated the price since the battery was still under warranty. I have no idea if they tested the alternator.

I ordered the multimeter. It should be here in a few days and will test as you guys have described. May also take it back over to AutoZone and see what they say about the alternator. The problem is that it is usually my wife who has to do this so I'm never there.

With the initial diagnostic steps that you guys have described I'm not sure why the dealership didn't want to do the work. It is a Nissan dealership and the car is an Infiniti but Infiniti is just a Nissan brand and share many if not all major components.

Another possibly stupid question: Wouldn't an alternator issue throw a code? I have a code reader and it is clear.

 

[zzvyb6]

A battery needing to be replaced means to me that there is something wrong with the charging system: alternator, voltage regulator (usually self contained). Here's what I do:

Park car in a garage and wait for complete darkness. That's where you can see the single mirror light on by mistake. Same for other lights: under-hood, trunk, glove box, driving lights.

Then start the car and disconnect one battery terminal. Car runs OK or not?

The connect the ammeter across the disconnected cable, key off and measure any residual current. When cable is reconnected, and motor running, measure charging voltage (should be over 13v.

Anything plugged into the lighter socket (Garmin, camera, phone charger ?) On my truck, the socket is always hot. On one of my cars, the socket is dead with key off, on the other the socket is also hot all the time.

Any builtin radio sources present (On-Star, etc?) On my truck, On-Star is always reporting mileage and service needs whether truck is running or not. Kills my battery after a month of non-use. My insurance company (State Farm) is also always checking mileage because I'm getting a low mileage premium 'discount'. I think they check Average Speed per miles interval, too (Yes On-Star can do that), plus many other secret features (like turn on the microphone to listen for sounds: we used to use this feature at work (GM) to locate snow covered cars in storage lots. We blow our horn and On-Star tells us when we are close to the vehicle we are looking for).

I also recommend pulling the key out after use. When I leave the key in (switch 'Off', my battery will be down after a week. Something's enabled with the key fully inserted. Same for our car. Now we pull the keys and no more problems (except for the On-Star snitch).

 

[N80]

Thanks ZZ. Good idea about checking for lights in the dark. This car has push button ignition. Lighter sockets are off when ignition is off. (In my F150 lighter socket is always hot).