Injector trouble

[RobJ]

poor mans way of testing the injectors is the remove 1 injector. the hook it back up to the fuel line and crank it over 15-20 seconds. you should get a fine spray coming out every couple engine turns. personally don't think injectors are the problem. i don't favor starting fluid (at all) but if you can keep it running on starting fluid then you may have a fuel or compression problem. don't pour diesel in the intake. to much in the combustion chamber and it won't compress and the engine would hit the lock.

make sure you have good cranking speed and fire that sucker up!!

 

[dqdave1]

Since you had no fuel till you freed the injector springs; I would start there.
Injector pump should be removed and cleaned , They may make an overhaul kit. Your local dealer may be able to test it. Dealer may be able to test injectors also.
You know it will run when it gets fuel.
You know fuel is getting to injector.
You get low fuel out of pump.
Injector pump weak or dirty? You stated tank was bad; pump could be also.

I would be cleaning, disassembling pump and looking at injectors now.

Keep battery charger on battery.
Do not use starting fluid.

 

[john_bud]

Others may disagree, but I would disconnect the input line to the pump (plug it so it doesn't leak!) and run a temporary line from a can of diesel injector cleaner. If you have a fuel filter with a bowl, fill it with the injector cleaner. Stanadyne Jr, marvel mystery oil, sea foam, Howes and others. Crank it until you get enough out of the temp can so that the pump and injectors are full of it. Then let it sit for a day. Hook the real tank back up and see if it is any better.

jb

 

[john_bud]

Others may disagree, but I would disconnect the input line to the pump (plug it so it doesn't leak!) and run a temporary line from a can of diesel injector cleaner. If you have a fuel filter with a bowl, fill it with the injector cleaner. Stanadyne Jr, marvel mystery oil, sea foam, Howes and others. Crank it until you get enough out of the temp can so that the pump and injectors are full of it. Then let it sit for a day. Hook the real tank back up and see if it is any better.

jb

 

[FULLPULL]

I will have to agree with you john_bud . To remove the injector pump would be the last straw .Some pumps are timed by turning them in there mounting. I dont know about this kubota but the timing shouldn't be moved.It could be checked according to spec's in a repair manual.

 

[DennisStahley]

Others may disagree, but I would disconnect the input line to the pump (plug it so it doesn't leak!) and run a temporary line from a can of diesel injector cleaner. If you have a fuel filter with a bowl, fill it with the injector cleaner. Stanadyne Jr, marvel mystery oil, sea foam, Howes and others. Crank it until you get enough out of the temp can so that the pump and injectors are full of it. Then let it sit for a day. Hook the real tank back up and see if it is any better.

jb

Hi John Bud
Well I will give this a try and see if it helps, I am thinking(haha)it might be the injectors? I guess I could take them out and have them tested to see if they are all right? I don't know if this the next best thing to try what do you think?? I sure don't want to get into the pump as manual say's it has to be timed etc. if you remove it so don't want to go there as I am dumb enough without going there. Thank's for the tip.
Dennis

 

[RobJ]

I will have to agree with you john_bud . To remove the injector pump would be the last straw .Some pumps are timed by turning them in there mounting. I dont know about this kubota but the timing shouldn't be moved.It could be checked according to spec's in a repair manual.

You are correct, technically not turned but slid. If the mounting flanges have slots you can slide the pump to advance/******. If no slots (like the picture I posted), it's just up and down with shims. The 2 kubotas I work on use shims. Some of the Deutz diesels I worked on used slotted flanges.

I think the pump is fine(IMO), it's also the last thing I'd pull if some fuel is comming out.

Dennis, another check of the pump is to pull ths shut off lever, it the fuel stops spirting out the rack is not stuck. Also the chance of all 3 injectors going bad at once is slim(IMO).

Keep plugging, you'll get it!! Rob

 

[BTDT]

Is the engine spinning over fast enough? Make sure battery is good and hot, and if possible I would hook up a tow vehicle and see if I could pull it in a high gear while working the throttle, to see if it tried to fire off, smoked a little or not at all.

 

[DennisStahley]

You are correct, technically not turned but slid. If the mounting flanges have slots you can slide the pump to advance/******. If no slots (like the picture I posted), it's just up and down with shims. The 2 kubotas I work on use shims. Some of the Deutz diesels I worked on used slotted flanges.

I think the pump is fine(IMO), it's also the last thing I'd pull if some fuel is comming out.

Dennis, another check of the pump is to pull ths shut off lever, it the fuel stops spirting out the rack is not stuck. Also the chance of all 3 injectors going bad at once is slim(IMO).

Keep plugging, you'll get it!! Rob

Hi Rob.
I will give this a try, I really don't want to get involved with the pump in taking it off if I don't have to. I ordered a compression tester for diesel to see if it has good comp. it should be here this week I hope. Says I can check it in the glow plug holes? So maybe this will give us some info. as to the compression check. I know with all your help we will get this thing running if it don't kill us first(haha) I will let ya know what is happening next. I do have my battery starter(charger) hooked up when I try and start it so it spins over real good and fast, I know its something with the fuel, I forgot to mention I took one at a time the injectors out and cleaned them I don't think I screwed anything up when I did this as I put them together as they were?? What do you think on this?? I know a dumb thing to do when never worked on them before but I figured it was not running as it was so I couldn't screw it up any more. Of course I probably am wrong on this one?? Let me know your opnion on these injectors if ya think I screwed them up?
Dennis

 

[DennisStahley]

Is the engine spinning over fast enough? Make sure battery is good and hot, and if possible I would hook up a tow vehicle and see if I could pull it in a high gear while working the throttle, to see if it tried to fire off, smoked a little or not at all.

Hi BTDT
Yes the battery is good and I put my charger/starter on it when trying to start so it sping quite fast. Another question I have I put new key and starter switch on and it won't turn over motor so I have a jumper wire from starter switch to the startes silonid and it will turn over fine, so the question is is that a problem?? There is nothing electrical that would not make the engine start is there? I know it has a voltage regulator but I assume(u know what that means) that has nothing to do with the running or starting of the engine I would think that is for charging and running lights Etc. (IMO) If you have any idea as to this might be why the engine is not starting let me know but they say no electric is needed for diesel to start so I think that is not a problem?? Let me know.
Dennis

 

[dqdave1]

How do you shut down the tractor when it is running? If you turn the key off and it quits; your key switch activates a solinoid in the injector pump.

 

[DennisStahley]

How do you shut down the tractor when it is running? If you turn the key off and it quits; your key switch activates a solinoid in the injector pump.

Hi.

I don't know how to shut off as I never had it running, but if there is a solinoid in the injector pump that is not being activated this very well could be the problem I am having. I will check this out, there must be a wire running to the injector pump I would think? So I will run this down and let you know what I find out, Again thanks for all the help.

Dennis

 

[gemini5362]

dennis if you are getting diesel out of your lines going to the injectors you do not have a solenoid turned off. If it is an older tractor it might not have an electrical solenoid. I would higly recomend calling a dealer of your tractor and asking them how to shut it off before you get it started. It will probably have a mechanical shutoff somewhere. This will be a knob attatched to a cable like an old time mechanical choke cable.

 

[john_bud]

Dennis,

I think you just gave us the missing clue. Yes, there should be a solenoid that shuts off the fuel flow from the pump.

I would start from scratch with the starter switch and make sure you wired it up correctly. Double check functionality of the switch with an ohm meter. You do have the wiring diagram right?

jb

 

[gemini5362]

I would not reccomend that he tears the injector pump apart. Some of us especially me do not have the tools or the required skills to tear an injector pump apart and put it back together again. If I tried that it would be an expensive visit to the shop before that injector pump worked again.

I dont think he has any problems other than air. I am not a diesel mechanic but since my old massey ferguson did not have a fuel gauge I am an expert at running out of diesel. A couple of times when it did I thought something was broken because I could not get it to bleed enough to start. The way he talks about having air bubbles come out sounds like air in the sytem and the way the diesel kind of squirts out sounds exactly like what I saw when I had the lines off. Diesel woukd kind of squirt out a bit but nothing major. If he is seeing it shoot an inch that is more than I saw. Here is what I would recomend if he has the ability to do it.

Put everything back together find the bleed valves on the pump itself. If you need to call a dealer service department and ask them. Open up one bleeder valve and turn the starter over until it is solid fuel. Close that then open the other bleeder valve and turn the engine over until it is solid fuel take one line loose at the injector. Leave it hooked up just loosen it until diesel fuel can squirt out of it Get someone with a pickup to tow you. Put the tractor in high range and the lowest gear of that range push in the clutch until the tractor gets moving then let out the clutch. If the truck pulling you is not big enough to pull at that range then keep going up in gears until the truck can pull the tractor with the clutch out. Pull the tractor slowly. 5-10 miles an hour. Pull for about a half mile then tighten the 1st injector line and loosen the second one. during this process you should be seeing fuel shooting out of the open line while you are being pulled. It will not be like anything coming out of a car wash hose just see it squirting out some. After another half mile stop and tighten the second injector line and loosen the third. Pull the tractor again for another half mile. The half mile is just subjective i think I actually pulled mine a total of 1/2 mile for three injectors but like I said I am not very patient. This should get everything bled and it should start while the third line is loosened. There were several times with my Massey that I could not bleed it with the manual bleeder or the starter ( I am sure due to a lack of patience on my part) The towing it method worked every time. My massey was a 4 cylinder and usually it started by the time I took the third line off so yours might start after you get the second line bleeding. If it does then just stop the tractor and let it bleed for a couple of seconds then loosen the third line and let it bleed. I would go back and do all three lines a second time and see if the tractor sounds like it is running smoother.

If you do not get fuel out of the first line then you might have something shut off but since you are getting fuel out of the injector with the lines off I dont imagine you do.

Make sure you call a dealer and ask how to shut it off. If you wind up having to shut the fuel off at the petcock you will just get air in all the lines again and you will be repeating this procedure over.

good luck

 

[flusher]

Hi.

I don't know how to shut off as I never had it running, but if there is a solinoid in the injector pump that is not being activated this very well could be the problem I am having. I will check this out, there must be a wire running to the injector pump I would think? So I will run this down and let you know what I find out, Again thanks for all the help.

Dennis

Take a look at your dashboard to see if there is a pull knob that operates a shutoff in the injector. My 1966 Massey Ferguson 135 has such a knob (pull out to start the engine with the key switch, push in to shut the engine off). My guess is that you have a key-switch-operated solenoid valve for that purpose since your Kubota is a 1970s vintage tractor. It may be stuck partially closed.

 

[diyDave]

If I recall right on these older Kubotas, the fuel shut off was manual-look for a linkage going from the pump to a point just under the dash. You should see a grey painted hook shaped, spring loaded lever. When you pull, it stops the pump, then springs back to run. If the spring is missing or damaged, that may be the problem.

 

[RobJ]

Dennis,

I think you just gave us the missing clue. Yes, there should be a solenoid that shuts off the fuel flow from the pump.

I would start from scratch with the starter switch and make sure you wired it up correctly. Double check functionality of the switch with an ohm meter. You do have the wiring diagram right?

jb

The older ones don't usually have a solenoid. Actually my 1999 model L2500 does not either. Dennis is getting fuel out of the top of the pump...where the injection lines connect.

Still say as others it's probably something simple...but it's dang hard to reach through the internet.

 

[FULLPULL]

If you have a manual shut off make shure the end conected to the injector pump is tight and hasnt slid in it mount .Most cables look like a lawn mower throttle cables and can move in there mount if loose it wont let the fuel be all the way open.Good luck again .

 

[DennisStahley]

If you have a manual shut off make shure the end conected to the injector pump is tight and hasnt slid in it mount .Most cables look like a lawn mower throttle cables and can move in there mount if loose it wont let the fuel be all the way open.Good luck again .

Hi FullPull

I went to the dealer today and talked to a tech. and he said there is no solinode in the pump and it has a manual shut off as you described, I am going to check it out tomorrow and see where I have the lever.