Interesting article about oil change interval

gsxr1100 · Mar 6, 2005

Dean,
the hat is a “special one”. No lube needed! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif The fur has special oils that are impregnated for life! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I am not an oil guru at all. Always learning. Same thing at work, people think just because I have been designing aerospace for XX years that I am a guru. Still learning. The problem with some info is by the time you read it and are able to understand it, it is obsoleted.

gsxr1100 · Mar 6, 2005

I use Amsoil 15w-40 and change once per year in my bx22. Going to try their Series 3000 5w30 and then compare to there 15w40. I kind of have an idea on what the outcome will be but I need to see the data. Going to drain the 15w-40 this month and then install the 5w-30.

It, Amsoil is NOT the best oil inthe world. There are better oils but for the added benefits and what you get, I feel it is the best "bang for the doller" out there. If a better oil comes out for a cheaper $$$, I will try it.

Is Delvac good sure but for me a few more $$$ and a better oil, I will take it.

tomnky · Mar 6, 2005

Please elaborate on the statement" Once You use synthetic , You can't go back"

I need some reasoning here Mike.

Thanks
Tom

gsxr1100 · Mar 6, 2005

I never stated you can't. I posted, "The filter issue is about as good as you can't switch back to dino once you go to synthetic. "

It was myth back in the day that once you went to synthetic you can;t go back to dino. Again, old info.

tomnky · Mar 6, 2005

Must have been one of My senior moments. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

gsxr1100 · Mar 6, 2005

no moment. I was jsut "venting a tad" . I just posted that since it was as good as the "filters are not that great either".

KAB · Mar 6, 2005

( Not to hijack this thread but related.....

My wife's new truck has an on-board oil sensor that displays a % life left in the engine oil. What exactly is the sensor measuring?

Any ideas?

Brian )

If you have a GM vehicle it looks at basically 3 items: Time, Temperature (ambient/engine), and RPM (Combustion events). It does this as an ongoing process, not an average per trip. A computer has calculations built into it to start a 100% and slowly decrease to 10%. At 10% you will be notified to change the oil. Recommended to be changed within 600 miles. They also recommend that it be changed a minimum of once a year or 10 - 12,000 max (depending on vehicle). GM acutally estimates the ave. vehicle will come on between 5-6000 miles. My eco-tech (4-cyl) highway driving 7500 miles and my wifes 4.2 6cyl about 9000 miles of combined city/highway.

The biggest problem I have when explaining this to others is the old 3months/3000mile belief. We (as people) have a hard time of accepting change and this is a big change, but we have accepted change in all other kinds of technology. Most people do not check their oil with every tank of gas (adding as needed), enjoy fuel injection (over carburated), have engines that last longer (with less maintenance), nolonger need to change oil at least twice a year (multi viscosity oil), better quality oil, more additives in oil so it last longer, synthetic oils, etc..

I have been reading all of the oil discussions today (there have been many) and from reading the post and from personal experience there is no right or wrong for oil beliefs - To each his own - for those that don't mind the old way of doing things - Keep it up - For those of us who choose to try the new way - Good Luck .

Kurt

JoeR · Mar 6, 2005

Kurt,

You forgot to add that people forgot about putting snow tires on their car in the winter too, and we used to jack the car up from the bumper. Remember the notch on each side of the bumper where the jack would go? And the high beam switch was a push button on the floor on the left side. Don't forget to double clutch with the shifter on the column!

Sorry about that, when you mentioned carburetor, and checking the oil every time you filled the tank I had flashbacks to my mother's 64 chevy bel-air. Burned at least a quart every two weeks!

Joe

getut · Mar 7, 2005

(
Fe- 5, 11
Cr- 0, 0
Ni-0. 10
Al- 2 ,3
Pb- 6, 10
Cu- 2, 11
Sn- 1, 1
Ag- 0, 0
Ti -0, 0
Si -16, 17
B -125, 27
Na- 6,12
Mo- 44, 1
P- 668, 1161
Zn- 757, 1175
Ca- 2991, 2643
Barium- 0, 0
Mg- 13, 797
TBN- 4.5, 3.3
)

Mike.. I've been meaning to ask this one for a long time. I'm already an Amsoil user so you're not having to win me over.. just asking out of curiosity.

The numbers above are all fine and good. But what exactly do they mean. Which chemicals in oil are bad (lower number better)? Which are good (higher numbers better)? Are they ALWAYS bad or good???? The chemicals may interact differently in one brands formulation that doesn't react that way in another.... In other words.. this particular chemical.. bad in one oil, but good in another oil. Just like the statement about additives in modern oils. It is not always a specific chemical that is bad... it may only be that chemical in conjunction with another that creates a bad situation.

gsxr1100 · Mar 7, 2005

Look for the wear numbers (Fe, Ni, Cu etc). Each metal goes to something wereing out. They should be very low as can be. The Zn, P, and TBN need to be high for longer drains. The Mg is another add that is good. Same with Ca. Example, si (dirt), if it is high, get a better air cleaner. TBN is good. If you have high Nox or OXD you will have a low TBN. So if your TBN is low to start with, your NOX and OCD will go up faster.

Mobil 1 oils for the most part are low in ZDDP etc. Just looking at the numbers my ZDDP is higher after 3X as longer in service and the wear number still look good.

Here is their new and there old. For Ref.

getut · Mar 7, 2005

So you would classify it like the below... I do realize we are talking about vastly different mileages.. but here is what it looks like. I list winner/loser, but I suspect that can only truly be calculated if the starting point for each oil is known also. PLEASE correct anything that is incorrect as there will be errors in this:

Fe- 5, 11 (Wear metal, not an additive, lower = better, Winner = Mobil1)
Cr- 0, 0 (Wear metal, not an additive, lower = better)
Ni-0. 10 (Wear metal, not an additive, lower = better, Winner = Mobil1)
Al- 2 ,3 (Wear metal, not an additive, lower = better, Winner=Mobil1)
Pb- 6, 10 (Additive for lubricity??? Wear metal???)
Cu- 2, 11 (Additive??? Wear metal???)
Sn- 1, 1 (Wear metal, not an additive, lower=better)
Ag- 0, 0 (Wear metal, not an additive, lower=better)
Ti -0, 0 (Wear metal, not an additive, lower=better)
Si -16, 17 (suspended pollutant, lower=better)
B -125, 27 (Additive, higher=better, Winner=Mobil1)
Na- 6,12 (Additive???, Suspended Pollutant???)
Mo- 44, 1 (Wear metal, not an additive, lower=better, Winner=Amsoil)
P- 668, 1161 (Additive, higher=better, Winner=Amsoil)
Zn- 757, 1175 (Additive, higher=better, Winner=Amsoil)
Ca- 2991, 2643 (Additive???, Suspended Pollutant???)
Barium- 0, 0 (Additive, higher=better)
Mg- 13, 797 (Additive, higher=better, Winner=Amsoil)
TBN- 4.5, 3.3 (Total protection reference number, higher=better, Winner=Mobil1)

gsxr1100 · Mar 7, 2005

Fe- 5, 11 (Wear metal, not an additive, lower = better, Winner = Mobil1)
Cr- 0, 0 (Wear metal, not an additive, lower = better)
Ni-0. 10 (Wear metal, not an additive, lower = better, Winner = Mobil1)
Al- 2 ,3 (Wear metal, not an additive, lower = better, Winner=Mobil1)
Pb- 6, 10 (Wear metal, Winner=Mobil1)
Cu- 2, 11 (Wear metal, Winner=Mobil1)
Sn- 1, 1 (lower=better)
Ag- 0, 0 (Wear metal)
Ti -0, 0 (Wear metal)
Si -16, 17 (lower=better)
B -125, 27 (Winner=Mobil1)
Na- 6,12 (Sodium, oil add)
Mo- 44, 1 (Winner=Amsoil)
P- 668, 1161 (Winner=Amsoil)
Zn- 757, 1175 (Winner=Amsoil)
Ca- 2991, 2643 (Additive)
Barium- 0, 0 (Additive, higher=better)
Mg- 13, 797 (Additive, higher=better, Winner=Amsoil)
TBN- 4.5, 3.3 (Total Base number, higher=better, Winner=Mobil1)

The issue or point is that I have over 3X the miles and the results of both are fine and within limits (and close). The numbers on wear are VERY close even after I went over 12K miles.

We can say winner/loser but I would have hoped for better numbers for the price of Mobil with that little miles on the oil. I would have hate to see if the guy went the full 7,500 miles.

getut · Mar 7, 2005

I agree fully... winner/loser are not really relevant given the mileage differences. I was curious as to the highher/lower for each chemical though.. and maybe the percentage of change in each oil in this test would really give a lot more information.

AutoUnionTypeC · Mar 7, 2005

( I would have hate to see if the guy went the full 7,500 miles.)

My maintenance costs speak for themselves 203,000+ miles and the only non-wear item repair was a rear O2 sensor. Curiously I've had to replace the rear O2 sensor on three different cars within 3000 miles of making the switch from dino to synthetic. The first was on my wife’s now retired 245, the second was on my Jetta and the third was on my wife’s "new to us" 850. All three times it was with Mobil#1 and all three cars run various versions of the Bosch Motronic engine management system. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Go figure.
Regards, J

gsxr1100 · Mar 7, 2005

I am not saying it is a bad oil, but based on his oil test, the oil is not holding up to well compared to Amsoil in this specific application.

Tom4310 · Mar 7, 2005

First of all, this is IMHO and just my .02 worth.

On the average, we tractor owners spend $20,000-$30,000 on our tractors and $20-$40,000+ on our vehicles and trucks. Why would anybody go to Wally World and buy oil for $.89 a quart and put it in your $30,000 tractor or $40,000 car or truck?

How much more a year would it be to get good oil? Why not get the best oil for your "best" tractor. You spent the time to do the research on the "best" tractor and spent good money on it. What is $25-$50-$100 more on an investment in the tens of thousands?

Ok, now I feel better...

gsxr1100 · Mar 8, 2005

I agree. It is almost as bad as the pople with diesels and SUV that whine and complain about the fuel prices.

You are the ones who choose to buy the auto. That is part of owning it.

My oil is cheap in the long run. $45 per year for the Lexus and $24 for the BX.

fishman · Mar 10, 2005

I used to agree that the best oil was always the best to buy. Now I am not too sure. I still buy synthetic oil for my expensive high-reving engines, but I recently changed to Supertech from Wal-mart for my car and truck (Hey, Mike looked at the numbers and said it was o.k. for short drain intervals! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif) Anyway, I can do an oil change, including filter, for both vehicles for under $20 total. After two changes, I have had zero troubles and really like saving the $ over other "branded" oils. At 3,500 to 4,000 miles per change, it will cost me, at most, $100 per year for oil changes. This is a similar cost to Mike's extended 15k drain interval and a viable alternative in my opinion.

Now, after rolling around in the gravel every two to three months for a year, I might just go buy some Amsoil! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

deereman63 · Mar 27, 2005

Im interested in the time span between oil changes. The family is not doing so many miles as it used to. So for example one car has only done 1000 miles in the last 3 months. Do you thing I could go 4 mths at this rate of would you be rigid about the 3month interval. Im a 5-30 castrol gtx man using an unmentionable but readily available filter

KAB · Mar 27, 2005

Being familiar with GM's Oil Life system and their recommendation I would see no problem waiting till you have the number of miles that you want to change to oil or 1 yr. The only reason that I say 1 yr is because that seems to be the recommended time for all of the none 3mo/3,000m change recommendation. (Regular and Synthetic Oils).

Just looked at Ford's current recommendation 5,000m no time frame listed.

Kurt