tbarber55
Bronze Member
If you went to Kahn tractor, ask for Brian. Tell him Tom with the Ford 1220 sent you. Also check out the Boomers.
Tom
Tom
Internet Tractor Purchase
- Thread starter WillingtonPizza
- Start date
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glennmac
Veteran Member
Here is a re-post of my 12/18 message on another thread:
"I bought at Ruwet-Sibley in New Milford at 12% of Kubota's list prices. I am very happy that I did, even though I could have gotten a slightly better price by buying in New York to save the sales tax.
I would like to strongly emphasize the importance of having a good and responsive dealer close to you. The initial tractor purchase is just the beginning of a long-term relationship. There are posters here who will advise you to buy wherever you can to save the last $50. I am not one of them. A good dealer is worth a lot over the long term.
My own experience is detailed at length in the Post-Purchase Depression thread. Essentially, I bought a BX and very quickly realized I had bought the wrong machine for my needs. My dealer took the BX back for a $14 per hour usage charge and sold me a 2910. What would I have done if I had bought by internet from North Carolina or from far away from some remote dealer! I'd still be sitting here with the BX -- unhappy. Then, I damaged my 72" mower deck the first day I used it. The dealer is 4 miles away. He picked it up and fixed it immediately for no charge.
We have now settled into an understanding that I will get 20% off on Woods products and at least 10% off on just about anything else. That is good enough for me. There is no hassle, I trust him, and I dont care about saving a few extra dollars from some more remote source. I just bought a Woods backblade from him and some more Freedom Hitches.
I also know Robert Wolf in Woodbury. He is one man operation, but should give you excellent prices as well as good service if you are geograhically near him.
If you have a dealer in your area who has a good reputation and whom you like, you should be able to negotiate a similar deal with him as with anyone. If you can, deal with him. I would say the dealer is more important than the brand. If the closer/better dealer had been the New Holland guy, I would now own blue."
I shopped internet dealers when I bought my BX. After the exorbitant shipping charge they add on -- $1200 to $1600 -- I concluded that the price difference was too minimal to sacrifice the benefits of a local dealer. Get a final quote from Carver and compare. Then you'll know what your options are.
Glenn
"I bought at Ruwet-Sibley in New Milford at 12% of Kubota's list prices. I am very happy that I did, even though I could have gotten a slightly better price by buying in New York to save the sales tax.
I would like to strongly emphasize the importance of having a good and responsive dealer close to you. The initial tractor purchase is just the beginning of a long-term relationship. There are posters here who will advise you to buy wherever you can to save the last $50. I am not one of them. A good dealer is worth a lot over the long term.
My own experience is detailed at length in the Post-Purchase Depression thread. Essentially, I bought a BX and very quickly realized I had bought the wrong machine for my needs. My dealer took the BX back for a $14 per hour usage charge and sold me a 2910. What would I have done if I had bought by internet from North Carolina or from far away from some remote dealer! I'd still be sitting here with the BX -- unhappy. Then, I damaged my 72" mower deck the first day I used it. The dealer is 4 miles away. He picked it up and fixed it immediately for no charge.
We have now settled into an understanding that I will get 20% off on Woods products and at least 10% off on just about anything else. That is good enough for me. There is no hassle, I trust him, and I dont care about saving a few extra dollars from some more remote source. I just bought a Woods backblade from him and some more Freedom Hitches.
I also know Robert Wolf in Woodbury. He is one man operation, but should give you excellent prices as well as good service if you are geograhically near him.
If you have a dealer in your area who has a good reputation and whom you like, you should be able to negotiate a similar deal with him as with anyone. If you can, deal with him. I would say the dealer is more important than the brand. If the closer/better dealer had been the New Holland guy, I would now own blue."
I shopped internet dealers when I bought my BX. After the exorbitant shipping charge they add on -- $1200 to $1600 -- I concluded that the price difference was too minimal to sacrifice the benefits of a local dealer. Get a final quote from Carver and compare. Then you'll know what your options are.
Glenn
Anonymous Poster
Epic Contributor
- Joined
- Sep 27, 2005
- Messages
- 29,678
WHEN I WENT LOOKING FOR A 2710, I WENT TO RUWET-SIBLEY AND AKED THEM FOR THEIR BEST PRICE SINCE I WON'T GO BACK AND FORTH TRYING TO BEAT THEM DOWN FOR AN EXTRA 20 BUCKS. HE QUOTED ME LIST PRICE! I WENT TO ROBERT WOLFF (203.266.4845) WOODBURY, CT AND HE GAVE ME A PRICE LOWER THAN CARVER.
SINCE ROBERT STARTED SELLING KUBOTA R-S HAS HAD TO ADJUST THEIR PRICING BECAUSE THEY WERE MISSING ALOT OF SALES.I UNDERSTAND THEY CALLED KUTOTA TO STIR UP SOME SH-T FOR ROBERT.I WOULD THINK R-S DISCOUNTING IS A DIRECT RESULT OF A NEW KID ON THE BLOCK.
FRED
SINCE ROBERT STARTED SELLING KUBOTA R-S HAS HAD TO ADJUST THEIR PRICING BECAUSE THEY WERE MISSING ALOT OF SALES.I UNDERSTAND THEY CALLED KUTOTA TO STIR UP SOME SH-T FOR ROBERT.I WOULD THINK R-S DISCOUNTING IS A DIRECT RESULT OF A NEW KID ON THE BLOCK.
FRED
glennmac
Veteran Member
Fred,
I didnt get a good price the first time I went to R&S either. Looking at it from a dealer's perspective, I wouldn't give my best price until I knew the buyer was serious. Anyway, I got internet quotes and then used them to get a good price, in writing, from a NY dealer who agreed to deliver and not collect any sales tax. I then used that quote, which was tax free, in a take it or leave it negotiation with Hy Ruwett. He LEFT IT, saying he could not match the tax-less price. I actually respected that. He came close, though, and I went with him for the service and convenience reasons. And, as I report, I am very glad I did.
I did not meet Wolff until after I had purchased. My understanding is that he is not a Kubota dealer, but gets them from a dealer in Pa. Not that that necessarily should matter to the buyer. I think he is of the low-quote-from- the-outset philosophy, since he is trying to compete with Carver. I have no reason to believe he is not reputable. He also has good prices on Bush Hog stuff. He used to post as Tractorman.
I didnt get a good price the first time I went to R&S either. Looking at it from a dealer's perspective, I wouldn't give my best price until I knew the buyer was serious. Anyway, I got internet quotes and then used them to get a good price, in writing, from a NY dealer who agreed to deliver and not collect any sales tax. I then used that quote, which was tax free, in a take it or leave it negotiation with Hy Ruwett. He LEFT IT, saying he could not match the tax-less price. I actually respected that. He came close, though, and I went with him for the service and convenience reasons. And, as I report, I am very glad I did.
I did not meet Wolff until after I had purchased. My understanding is that he is not a Kubota dealer, but gets them from a dealer in Pa. Not that that necessarily should matter to the buyer. I think he is of the low-quote-from- the-outset philosophy, since he is trying to compete with Carver. I have no reason to believe he is not reputable. He also has good prices on Bush Hog stuff. He used to post as Tractorman.
<font color=blue>...exorbitant shipping charge they add on -- $1200 to $1600...</font color=blue>
From where?? Even on a B2910, $1,200-$1,600 would get your tractor from east to west coast... and that is fair, not exorbitant. Were you getting prices from west coast dealers?
From where?? Even on a B2910, $1,200-$1,600 would get your tractor from east to west coast... and that is fair, not exorbitant. Were you getting prices from west coast dealers?
Ejb,
In reference to the non-disclosure agreement...
Not trying to stand up for Carver, but I have heard from other buyers who have bought from them that Carver Equipment asked them to sigh such an agreement to disclose the final price of the tractor. I have not heard that they require you to sign or agree to not disclose prices before you purchase from them... maybe they changed their policy or something.
However, their website does list more prices of tractors than any other Kubota dealer on the web (AFIK)... and for those of you who were around about three years ago, I commented then about my great appreciation for a dealer to finally post prices of tractors on their website, after I found Carver's website... since no other dealers (at that time) had similar listings on the web.
So the issue about people discussing what Carver sells tractors for isn't really an issue, since people refer to prices from Carver all the time... but I suppose Carver just doesn't want everyone to know what you (or other buyers) paid... perhaps because of seasonal sales or discounts they give at one time but might not be able to give at another time. Just a wild guess... since I have never asked them about it.
In reference to the non-disclosure agreement...
Not trying to stand up for Carver, but I have heard from other buyers who have bought from them that Carver Equipment asked them to sigh such an agreement to disclose the final price of the tractor. I have not heard that they require you to sign or agree to not disclose prices before you purchase from them... maybe they changed their policy or something.
However, their website does list more prices of tractors than any other Kubota dealer on the web (AFIK)... and for those of you who were around about three years ago, I commented then about my great appreciation for a dealer to finally post prices of tractors on their website, after I found Carver's website... since no other dealers (at that time) had similar listings on the web.
So the issue about people discussing what Carver sells tractors for isn't really an issue, since people refer to prices from Carver all the time... but I suppose Carver just doesn't want everyone to know what you (or other buyers) paid... perhaps because of seasonal sales or discounts they give at one time but might not be able to give at another time. Just a wild guess... since I have never asked them about it.
glennmac
Veteran Member
Muhammad, no, from Carver in NC and Tractorsmart (Modern Tractor) in Tennesse. The "technique" used by these dealers is to quote a "package price", which includes shipping. They do not break out the shipping charge. Maybe they would, if asked. Since Carver used to quote prices (and maybe still does), you sort of could reconstruct the shipping charge element. I will go back to my notes, but my recollection was that it was about $1400 (calculated) to ship a BX with mower and FEL from NC or TN to CT.
Keep in mind that this shipping charge you pay to a cyberseller is really a re-shipping charge, which you do not pay if you deal with a local dealer. The internet seller must price into his machines the shipping charge from Kubota to him just as any dealer does. Then, the shipping from NC, or wherever, to CT, or wherever, is a wholly additional cost to the buyer.
Also keep in mind that the internet dealer must deal with the same costs and margins as any local dealer. He has no pricing magic; his equipment costs are the same. Hence, there should be no economic reason why you cannot negotiate the same deal, on the hardware, from a local dealer as an internet dealer. Of course, the local dealer may not be willing to deal for a low margin sale; not worth it to him unless he is hard up.
My sense is what the internet guys are doing is nothing more than the sales tax avoidance game. (I dont mean that in a legal sense at all.) They price equipment at a dicounted margin plus the re-shipment charge such that the package price just beats by a little the same hardware plus the applicable sales tax in the local dealer's state.
So, to me, the real economics of the transaction comes down to the question of whether your local sales tax is less or more than the internet guy's "re-shipping charge" embedded in the package price, regardless of whether that shipping charge is real or phony. In my case, when I worked the numbers, there was no advantage in going with the internet seller. In fact, the lowest cost solution was to buy cross-border from a dealer in a neighboring state who is willing to deliver for free and not charge any sales tax. Then, you get the best of all economic worlds. But I would still go with a reputable local dealer whose price is reasonable, as I did.
Glenn
Keep in mind that this shipping charge you pay to a cyberseller is really a re-shipping charge, which you do not pay if you deal with a local dealer. The internet seller must price into his machines the shipping charge from Kubota to him just as any dealer does. Then, the shipping from NC, or wherever, to CT, or wherever, is a wholly additional cost to the buyer.
Also keep in mind that the internet dealer must deal with the same costs and margins as any local dealer. He has no pricing magic; his equipment costs are the same. Hence, there should be no economic reason why you cannot negotiate the same deal, on the hardware, from a local dealer as an internet dealer. Of course, the local dealer may not be willing to deal for a low margin sale; not worth it to him unless he is hard up.
My sense is what the internet guys are doing is nothing more than the sales tax avoidance game. (I dont mean that in a legal sense at all.) They price equipment at a dicounted margin plus the re-shipment charge such that the package price just beats by a little the same hardware plus the applicable sales tax in the local dealer's state.
So, to me, the real economics of the transaction comes down to the question of whether your local sales tax is less or more than the internet guy's "re-shipping charge" embedded in the package price, regardless of whether that shipping charge is real or phony. In my case, when I worked the numbers, there was no advantage in going with the internet seller. In fact, the lowest cost solution was to buy cross-border from a dealer in a neighboring state who is willing to deliver for free and not charge any sales tax. Then, you get the best of all economic worlds. But I would still go with a reputable local dealer whose price is reasonable, as I did.
Glenn
RAllen
Silver Member
I discovered Carver while lurking on this site. I investigated buying from them. Found them knowledgeable and helpful. I bought from my local Kubota Dealer- Parsons Tractor in Kalispell MT. We do not have sales tax and, after considering shipping costs, Parsons final price was very close to Carver's. They are a very fine dealership. Their "out the door price" included liquid ballast, hooks welded on the bucket and even a 12 volt power port at no extra charge. The 2910 was delivered to my property and I got several hours of instruction. Again at no extra charge. Service after the sale has been great and I am very happy. Parsons is very aware of Carver and tries to be competitive. Not all of us are lucky enough to have a dealer like Parsons so Carver will always have potential customers. But do check out you local dealers. No matter how competitive Carver is a good local dealer will beat them hands down simply because of the distances.
Rick
Rick
glennmac
Veteran Member
Checked my notes. I won't say what the exact prices were, but when I subtracted from Carver's package price the price for the equipment publicly posted on his site, the difference was $1330. This is the so-called re-shipping charge. My local dealer was $200 more than this including the 7% CT sales tax. Modern Tractor's package price was higher than Carver's.
Rick, sounds like you got a very good deal and have begun to forge a relationship with your local dealer that may benefit you in unforeseeable ways in the future.
Glenn
Rick, sounds like you got a very good deal and have begun to forge a relationship with your local dealer that may benefit you in unforeseeable ways in the future.
Glenn
Von
Veteran Member, Advertiser
Glenn,
You have a better dealer than most. I am still looking to upgrade to a B2910 and Carver is $2500.00 less with the shipping. Then add the sales tax and he is $4100.00 cheaper than the local dealer here. And I asked for the price of just the shipping and it was $700.00 for NC to Western NY. So when I do get ready I will buy on line.
Von
You have a better dealer than most. I am still looking to upgrade to a B2910 and Carver is $2500.00 less with the shipping. Then add the sales tax and he is $4100.00 cheaper than the local dealer here. And I asked for the price of just the shipping and it was $700.00 for NC to Western NY. So when I do get ready I will buy on line.
Von
