Buying Advice Is it possible to go too big?

[JohnnyMX]

I went from .25 acres to 60 which is half pasture, half tree farm and started off with a smaller 25hp Kubota (245DT) because it was free to me. Looking back that was mistake that cost me more in the long run. I now have an MX5200 with loaded tires and a FEL. Buy the tractor once so you can size your implements. If you go from something small to something much larger later, chances are your implements are not going to match. I now have multiple undersized implements that I try to get buy with and am changing out as necessary. Get a grapple and a cutter of your choice to help tame your wall of green.

 

[WoodChuckDad]

I read 2 of 8 pages on the thread, then jumped to the end. Hope I didnt miss anything. But here is my thought. Dont waste your money on a 30-40 hp tractor. You will be frustrated by its limitations. Dont sell any timber off your land until you have been there a couple years, unless it comes down in the clearing of a build site.
You are on flat land. That makes it much easier to handle a tractor and learn the ropes. My first and only tractor is a 73 hp Kioti. I am on very hilly terrain at the base of the Blue Ridge Mountains. That Kubota you have your eyes on would be a real good size to do a lot of work. Leasing some of that land out would also be a pretty good idea. No matter what you get, you will probably buy something else too. If you have lots of thick stuff but not massive trees where you want your trails, consider hiring someone with a forestry mulcher to come in there and cut the trails. They could probably do it in a day or two and you could then maintain it with ease. Good luck.

 

[Xfaxman]

I read 2 of 8 pages on the thread, then jumped to the end. Hope I didnt miss anything.

Depending on your setting of how many posts per page, you may have missed the best machine for the OP, Post # 26: Buying Advice - Is it possible to go too big?

My setting is 50 posts per page.

 

[PaultheMaleNurse]

Clearly I'm no expert, but I've been seeing a lot of videos of gravel driveway maintenance that use box blades, land planes, and landscape rakes. For those suggesting other machines besides a normal tractor, can you run all of those items and if so what size?

 

[PuffyC]

I didn't read all 9 pages of responses so my apologies if this has already been covered. Also didn't see where you were located. When we bought our place it was almost the exact scenario you describe and here's what I would say:

Building a gravel road: We've gone down that road (no pun intended) a couple times and the answer is real easy: hire that out. I wouldn't touch that with a 100 foot pole. No way no how. Never. You want no part of building 1500-3000 feet of gravel road yourself, especially if all you have is a tractor - don't care how big it is. However, you can maintain 1500-3000 ft of gravel road easily with any compact.

Timber and trails, light grading and gardening: Been there too. Cabs are terrible in the woods and so is a tractor that's too big. This stuff is all pretty easy, any compact open tractor will do great and is usually better.

Mowing: Don't mow with a tractor if there's any way you can possibly avoid it. Seriously. If your pasture is big just lease it out for hay. If it's small (5 acres or less) get a ZTR. You'll question that logic when you have to write a check for a $10,000 lawn mower but a year later you'll view it as some of the best money you spent.

As for the rest, smaller tractors aren't "learners", they're just appropriately sized tools for the jobs they're doing. Some feel bigger and heavier is always better but keep in mind:

- If you plan on trailering it anywhere for any reason, smaller and lighter is easier, cheaper, and I'd argue safer. And trust me, you'll want to trailer it somewhere. You get an M4 with a loader and a trailer to hold it, you're probably over 10,000 pounds which is more than some standard F150s are rated.
- Bigger and heavier means it's not as maneuverable or nimble in tight places like woods and trails.
- Bigger and heavier is usually more expensive to buy and will cost you more to use.
- Bigger and heavier will tear up your yard just by driving across it. May not sound like a big deal but I promise, it's a big deal.
- Bigger and heavier is harder to store, assuming you don't plan on leaving it sitting in the yard and don't have a proper building you can use.

You'll end up doing many other things that you haven't even thought of, and that's the great thing about having a tractor, but with all that said you probably already know where I'm going. Honestly something like a 3 series Deere is all you'd need.

I sometimes dream of getting a big tractor with a cab and all that other big tractor stuff just because they're cool and I love tractors. I may go there some day, but if I do it won't be because it's a better tool for the jobs I have on a place that sounds just like yours.

 

[greenerdreams]

look at what was done through history clearing land with much lesser machines than we have today. you do not need huge or new(all machines nowadays will last thousands of hours). 4x4 is great but usually unnecessary especially if you have two machines, I have a 4x4 truck and a 4x4 bobcat and things still get stuck but with another machine it is easy to rescue your equipment. bigger isn't really better, I have used some tiny machines that still can do an incredible amount of work. my opinion is buy two machines used for less than the price of one new and do far more. I have a mini ex and a bobcat and can do everything i need. I have attachments for the bobcat and can rent anything i don't need to use often. the ex has a thumb and that is all you will need. I use my ex far more than the bobcat, even though the bobcat is used as a FEL most of its hours. I do agree with letting someone else hay and harvest your property, unless you find that you really like mowing. there really isn't any 'intro' time, you will be able to run equipment almost immediately. Things just get much more efficient the longer you operate. Lastly, If you buy these two machines used you can probably afford a dump trailer or even an older dumptruck and be able to do anything you want at any time and save yourself a lot of money and waiting on other people.

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

Too big? That may be true with women. I don't see how with tractors. Maybe stay under 150 hp.

 

[Jac65]

My dad was right, the larger the machine, the safer they are and easier to operate. I started running a Case 450 dozer by myself at 11 years old, my dad just showed me how to operate it, left me with lunch and water on my 11th birthday and said, "you'll remember this". Later I graduated to a D7 dozer and was amazed how much work I could get done and how much safer it was.

And I'm going to disagree with you on this. I'll bet you don't even remember a time when you didn't know how to operate a tractor. Growing up doing something is very different than learning as an adult, and bigger is only safer if you actually know and understand how to use the equipment you are riding. I know some kids who are hobby racers that can drive circles around me and most anyone else, yet you can't count the number of Hellcats or Demons that are wrapped around trees and put in ditches because competent adults don't have the proper skillset for the equipment. Most of the issues I've had were because I was trying to work beyond the limits of my equipment and that can put you in a scary situation. The problem is that new tractor operators don't really understand the real world functional limits of the equipment until they put time in the seat. Id hate to have made those early mistakes on a machine that could do 5x the damage of my small one.

 

[DieselBound]

Jac65 nails it.

I've clipped a fence line with my NX5510, snagged a post with the grapple: narrow pathway with tree branches and I was lower to not snag branches. I was lucky in that I built an insanely strong fence; any other fence would have been ripped up: I felt the tractor start to strain due to resistance that the post was putting up against being pushed over and I immediately released my foot from the travel pedal. Last summer I snagged my pole shed's roof, once again due to low hanging branches and visibility. Worst was clipping a pole/post on my wood shed (in my fuel bay); just like with my fence, I built this shed insanely strong (no lower bracing, which actually might have been beneficial in allowing a little more flex). Have also managed to snag my fence with my rotary cutter's tail wheel and with my flail: stuff is a lot further away with bigger tractors and equipment. NEVER did anything like this with my B7800; reason being is that visibility is far easier due to it being a smaller machine: and ducking branches isn't as much an issue because the loader doesn't raise as high. NOTE: NO, I'm not going to go around trimming thousands of branches. I had more than sufficient seat time in my NX5510, so it wasn't a newbie issue. And this brings up the point that even if "experienced" you can still mess up (duh), and with something bigger the mess-ups cans be significantly more problematic. And just wait until you break something on a larger tractor- MUCH more in repair costs. There's also maintenance: the amount of hydraulic fluid used in larger tractors is exponentially more; that's more cost, more time to change and deal with old fluid.

I was nervous operating my NX5510 when I first got it, and at that time I was NOT a tractor newbie: perhaps 900 hours on my B7800, as well as dozens of hours with excavators and skidsteers. If nothing else, operate anything, especially BIG tractors, with a sense of nervousness.

The aim of anyone making a decision is to know all the issues, good and bad.

 

[Jac65]

Too big? That may be true with women. I don't see how with tractors. Maybe stay under 150 hp

"Stay under 150" Seems like good advice for tractors and women!

 

[kenmac]

Several post about instructors / buddy/child, or what ever you wish to call it.
I had one installed in my CX but it's a BIG cab on that tractor. I believe the cost was $400.00 ?
Anyway. My grand kids only ride when they just want to ride the tractor. It has, and they must use the seat belt.
There is no riding when I'm working .

You can always do as I did..If you buy too small a tractor, you can always buy a larger one and keep the smaller one as well.
There was no reason for me to trade the MX and lose money, and it is the tractor I use the most. Except pulling a seed drill, or using a heavy disk.

It's also great to have two tractors when getting up hay. One stays in the hay field to load the trailer. The other stays at the barn to unload and stack hay .

 

[Loaderman22]

Like some of the others, I skipped a lot & I'm sure all of it was extremely helpful and based on real life experiences. Me, I bought used, thought 2wd would be adequate, nope, was useless unless I had something huge on the back or else it just sat there. Now with that huge weight, I lost maneuverability in the trails. So I went to a 4wd tractor, again used, much better suited for my needs. I had no problem selling the used tractor to buy a bulldozer, which suits my current needs. The 4wd tractor was 55 horsepower, which was great for mowing the fields but it was a little big for maintaining my 1400' driveway, just wasn't necessary. So my 2 cents, which is worth exactly that, buy a smaller sized used tractor with a Quick Attach loader & grapple to "learn" on, and only a couple must have implements, maybe that brush hog or a flail mower to keep some of the jungle at bay. & Lease the main pastures to a farmer for hay, that way you both benefit, cheaper for him to mow improved field than to buy and clear land. Get a 0 turn for the lawn around the house. Hire out driveway because getting all the pitching, drainage, & sub layers right is harder than it sounds. Spend time with the kids and let the land work for you so you don't have to spend the time on it. Then after the driveway is in, & you've had a lot of seat time, then think about where your used tractor was adequate, too much, or too small, then buy a new one accordingly. Just my opinion.

 

[smiley]

Hello folks. Moving to a 58 acre property soon from the 'burbs (also escaping CA, but that is a different discussion) and am looking into getting my first tractor. About 28 acres of the land is previously farmed acreage that I want to keep knocked down and tamed by semi regular mowing/bush hogging. I have a full time job that is not farming and have no intention of farming the land myself, at least in the near future.

As Lineman said a 30-35 hp one smaller tractor would probably be less intimidating to start out but, with a lifetime of farm and highway construction experience I like the biggest I can afford and especially if you're buying used, bigger is cheaper. I did a little quik searching and calculating on new tractors. It came out with a 30 hp tractor at $833 per hp and a 100hp at 500 per hp. https://advanton.com/new-tractor-cost/
Even though I had a Ford 2n, an AC- B and Case 580 backhoe loader, after using 4wd tractors on 45 degree slopes on the job, I told my wife when I retired I was getting a used small 30 -35 hp 4wd for use around my 23 acres. She actually agreed as a lot of my place is very steep and also wet swampy areas. After looking at several small ones, the cheapest I found was a small Ford with a snowplow blade that was beat for $7500 and a little better 81 JD 750 for 8k with no equipment. Everything else was 12-20k.
I saw a couple 4wd tractors going up for auction and went to look at them. I happened to arrive as the truck driver was unloading two 100 hp 399 Massey Ferguson right of way mowers and got talking with him. He tipped me off me which one just had a new engine with less about 80 hours on it. Both had new tires, 8' bush hogs, 50 ton winches and full forestry skid plates , cages etc. The one without the new engine went up first and a dealer and I were the final 2 bidders and I let him have it. The good one was next and the dealer bid it up to the same as he paid for the first one and I bid the next $500 and got it. I pulled out my credit card and paid about the same as the lowest priced small tractors. Then I drove it the 10 miles home figuring out the Massey color scheme to repaint it, because i figured my wife was going to have some words about that ugly black thing. Much to my surprise when I pulled down the driveway my wife and son came out and both said, "that looks like it's right out of the Road Warrior and you're not touching that paint. That's how he got his name.
Although Max more than fills my needs, tractors seem to be the same as workshops, no matter how much room you have, you always wish it was bigger.
As far as kids on tractors, I put a kids car seat behind mine and my grandson rode everywhere strapped in from 3 yrs old. BUT--- safety is the # 1 concern and he was never allowed on or near any equipment unless someone was with him and given constant safety reminders, most important to never approach any vehicle/tractor etc. especially from the rear, until the operator sees you and ok's it
Smiley

 

[Beerslayer]

"Stay under 150" Seems like good advice for tractors and women!

Haha love that one. I did go over the 150 rule for a tractor but I had a specific use case for it and it works well. Love the Mad Max tractory ^^

I've lurked here a lot but never posted before, but this one seemed to need another perspective. Most of the posters did not read or pay attention the OPs points.

1. He has very little time. Get a big tractor, get the work done faster. I've dinked around plenty on little tractors, they beat you up on rough ground and take way longer to get the job done. Just try spreading rock or leveling something with a small tractor vs a big one. Huge difference.

2. Child riding on the tractor. Lots of dire warnings. OP is former service and an ER nurse and seems pretty capable of assessing and mitigating the risks.

3. Learning curve. I can say for a fact having run a lot of big and little equipment that if you have depth perception a big tractor is easier and safer to run.

4. Cabs. OP wants a cab for comfort and safety. Get a Stihl pole saw and have your wife drive you around in the back of the pickup and take down any branches that will hit the cab. First thing I did and I repeat the edges of my field and roads every second or third year. It's maintenance.

5. Leasing out the ground. OP stated that he didn't want someone farming the ground around his house which is half of it and is very understandable. Those telling him to rent it out didn't read his posts.

6. Road building. If OP can stabilize a gun shot wound which he probably has plenty of experience with, he can learn how to properly grade a road so it will drain. Pro tip: Always put down geotech fabric under your rock. Depending on your base soil you can use half the rock and it will last much longer. Watch youtubes, maybe hire some of it done so you can watch. People have been building good roads since at least Roman times. Not hard.

I know well how the crowd here leans towards little tractors, that's what this forum is about, but the OP was asking about bigger tractors. I didn't figure I'd earn a lot of love over my perspective, but it's a different one and perhaps useful to the OP.

OP, suggest posting your question in the Machinery forum at New Ag Talk and see what kind of answers you get. When I posted there about the 225 HP Steiger tractor I was considering buying, one poster suggested I get a rototiller for it and till the garden reaally fast.

 

[Xfaxman]

Clearly I'm no expert, but I've been seeing a lot of videos of gravel driveway maintenance that use box blades, land planes, and landscape rakes. For those suggesting other machines besides a normal tractor, can you run all of those items and if so what size?

Yes. For size search YouTube for Toolcat or skid steer land plane, box blade and landscape rakes.

Here is a video from npartist a TBN member using a 7' box blade on a 5600:

The Eterra 7' box grader:

This is the one I bought:

This looks like a gooder-un:

 

[Lineman North Florida]

Haha love that one. I did go over the 150 rule for a tractor but I had a specific use case for it and it works well. Love the Mad Max tractory ^^

I've lurked here a lot but never posted before, but this one seemed to need another perspective. Most of the posters did not read or pay attention the OPs points.

1. He has very little time. Get a big tractor, get the work done faster. I've dinked around plenty on little tractors, they beat you up on rough ground and take way longer to get the job done. Just try spreading rock or leveling something with a small tractor vs a big one. Huge difference.

2. Child riding on the tractor. Lots of dire warnings. OP is former service and an ER nurse and seems pretty capable of assessing and mitigating the risks.

3. Learning curve. I can say for a fact having run a lot of big and little equipment that if you have depth perception a big tractor is easier and safer to run.

4. Cabs. OP wants a cab for comfort and safety. Get a Stihl pole saw and have your wife drive you around in the back of the pickup and take down any branches that will hit the cab. First thing I did and I repeat the edges of my field and roads every second or third year. It's maintenance.

5. Leasing out the ground. OP stated that he didn't want someone farming the ground around his house which is half of it and is very understandable. Those telling him to rent it out didn't read his posts.

6. Road building. If OP can stabilize a gun shot wound which he probably has plenty of experience with, he can learn how to properly grade a road so it will drain. Pro tip: Always put down geotech fabric under your rock. Depending on your base soil you can use half the rock and it will last much longer. Watch youtubes, maybe hire some of it done so you can watch. People have been building good roads since at least Roman times. Not hard.

I know well how the crowd here leans towards little tractors, that's what this forum is about, but the OP was asking about bigger tractors. I didn't figure I'd earn a lot of love over my perspective, but it's a different one and perhaps useful to the OP.

OP, suggest posting your question in the Machinery forum at New Ag Talk and see what kind of answers you get. When I posted there about the 225 HP Steiger tractor I was considering buying, one poster suggested I get a rototiller for it and till the garden reaally fast.

The OP stated in his first post that he WAS interested in the possibility of leasing out some of his land for someone else to farm, most folks here gave an opinion on what they felt would work for the OP nothing says that what works for one would be what is needed for others, your case in particular 25 farmable acres and 110, 150 , and 200+ hp tractors would be overkill for some but apparently it works for you, which is good, but just maybe you should go back and read the OP's post a little better, because it appears you missed a little bit as well.

 

[Martin Roper]

Hello folks. Moving to a 58 acre property soon from the 'burbs (also escaping CA, but that is a different discussion) and am looking into getting my first tractor. About 28 acres of the land is previously farmed acreage that I want to keep knocked down and tamed by semi regular mowing/bush hogging. I have a full time job that is not farming and have no intention of farming the land myself, at least in the near future. Leasing some of the land to someone else to farm is something I want to look more in to. The rest of the land is very thick vegetation and trees. Solid wall of green type situation.

Besides the previously mentioned 28 acres of maintenance taming, over the next few years I want to potentially relocate, and certainly maintain, the gravel driveway into the property which is about 1500', create a gravel "road" to the more separated farm area for lessees to access that 15ish acres which will be at least another 1500', fell some timber and clear brush to make trails to the more wooded areas, potentially light grading for a future storage structure and swing set, and support of some heavier/specialized rented machinery for constructing a private shooting range with berm backstops in the back woods. Near the house I'd like to set up a sizable garden plot for the wife and kids to tool around in and some tree planting around the new driveway for future privacy.

My question is this: Should I start with a "learner size"? I've never owned or driven a tractor but from research I've seen that a fairly sizable machine would be ideal for my needs/wants. I've also gotten my heart set on a buddy seat so in a few years when I've learned to drive the thing and my very young children are a tiny bit older they can ride with dad. I think those moments will be priceless. I have no brand loyalty and I've yet to see how dealers around me treat their customers, which I've heard is a huge consideration. I've also got my heart set on a cab because frankly I think it will make chores like the mowing enjoyable instead of potential misery.

The machines I've been interested in thus far are the kubota m4d-071 and the tym 1104 and I'm mostly considering new instead of used. I'm slowly working my way though the other colors looking for other models of weight, power, and size to fit my needs but I've gotten a bit nervous about my lack of experience and piloting something this large and expensive without ever even sitting in a drivers seat. Any thoughts? Am I getting in over my head with machines this big? The terrain around my house is about as flat as a pancake which is at least in my favor and because I have a full time gig elsewhere, my off time, which I'm hoping a machine this size will save some of, is very valuable and more time I can spend with my young kids. Thanks for your help and looking forward to getting to know you all.

With that amount of ground I would recommend an agricultural tractor of about 70hp rather that the flimsy compacts as they are designed to work, have the stability to do it safely, more comfortable to drive, easier to mount and are easier to find implements for.

 

[Mart5130]

In my opinion you made a fantastic move.

Good move

 

[kenmac]

The OP stated in his first post that he WAS interested in the possibility of leasing out some of his land for someone else to farm, most folks here gave an opinion on what they felt would work for the OP nothing says that what works for one would be what is needed for others, your case in particular 25 farmable acres and 110, 150 , and 200+ hp tractors would be overkill for some but apparently it works for you, which is good, but just maybe you should go back and read the OP's post a little better, because it appears you missed a little bit as well.

Heck, I wasn't looking for a 105 hp tractor. I already had a 50 HP tractor. I was just looking for about a 75 hp tractor.
Since I wasn't buying new to stay away from emissions, I bought my 105 HP cheaper than I could buy used a 70 HP tractor. It was a no brainer for me !

 

[sunandsand]

Kids and tractors are a bad mix. Kids are immortal, just ask them. As was mentioned, tractors are slow but inevitable - and to date, I have been able to destroy anything I have been able to drive over (on my 26 hp Kubota 2601), which so far has been just about everything. To date, I haven't hit or damaged anything (yet) or hurt myself or anyone else, but as they say in the stock market, past performance is no guarantee of future performance.

Sometimes adults have no sense about tractors either. I was unloading a 40' container (on a truck) using pallet forks, and someone walked between the tractor and the truck/container. He's an adult and should have known a LOT better, and he promptly and deservedly got yelled at right and proper. If my foot had slipped, he'd have been crippled, as a minimum. Ten minutes later HE DID IT AGAIN, and at that point I told him to either get and stay in the (bleeping) container (moving the pallets with a pallet jack) or GTF away and go have lunch or something . . .

I don't want anyone hanging around while the tractor is working. The bush hog throws debris, sometimes very hard, even the belly mower can launch projectiles. I'm really, really careful and try to keep my situational awareness at 100% (pilot training helps) but other people don't understand that tractors can be really dangerous to the unwary or just plain unlucky (and luck is not a strategy).

Basically, if you get careless or sloppy around tractors, you should decide in advance what bodily appendage you will miss the least.

Always have the ROPS cage up and locked, and always use your seat belt. Approach, mount and dismount the tractor as if it is a) alive, b) malevolent, and c) live with 440 volts (three phase). Don't be scared of it, but respect what it can do.

2wd vs 4wd - Someone taught me a trick - go in with 2wd, if you get stuck, you can use 4wd to get out. If you get REALLY stuck, lock the diff (lever on the floor on my Kubota) and that will do it. If you get REALLY REALLY stuck, sometimes using the FEL as a "jack" will free you. If that fails, yell for help.

Size matters, but what I've found is that a smaller tractor can do almost as much work as a larger tractor, but it is going to take longer, sometimes a lot longer. Fortunately, I have two neighbors with larger tractors (a Kubota 5000 series, and a big green thing with about 60 hp) and they enjoy using their "big iron" as much as I enjoy using my "pipsqueak".

Each one of us has three or four implements and attachments, and they are all different. Between us, we have a good selection so we almost always have something that will get the job done.

Don't be afraid of sharing your knowledge, either. One friend bought a stump grinder and connected it up. He showed up just a'rarin to go and I noticed that the grease fittings looked pretty dry - in fact they were rusty (brand new machine). We did the grease-gun trick and then I wondered aloud if there was any oil in the gearbox. Guess what - bone dry! Shipped that way, no tag, nothing in the manual, no heads-up. If we hadn't looked, the vendor would have had a warranty fight. A quart of SAE 90 fixed that issue.

Be careful. Think. Have a good time!

Best Regards,

Mike/Florida