Is it worth it to have a slide out installed on a horse trailer?

[bazman82]

Efficient storage means stuff doesn't end up on the floor space.

I get that but the cots and cabinets on the opposite wall take up a bit of that floor space. Now, if we don't end up adding a slide, I would look at having cabinets and a window added above the cot area for more storage. Plus, that hay rack since it was mentioned and I forgot about that as an option. I would have to measure it again but I think ours is only a 4 or 6' shortwall.

 

[ponytug]

Thanks @bazman82. It sounds like you have done your diligence! If it were me, I would go weigh the trailer to see how much of that 10,700 budget you already use.

Upgrading the truck axles may help; I don't know your model, so I don't know how the frame differs between the 2500 and 3500 models. I know some Ford (diesel) owners who did that and they were happy with the upgrades since on their models the frames were identical. I also don't know the Kiefer frame/design that well, but I would be surprised if the frame could take the extra weight. Trailers tend to be engineered to the absolute minimum, whereas pickups often use the same frame for several different models, and have frames with "available" capacity. (That's a broad brush comment; I do not know your particular version.) A couple of other things that I would look at would be other upgrades, like bigger oil coolers for the engine and transmission, shocks/air suspension, and my go to, bigger brakes. I had an old Ford F-350 that the prior owner and me both beefed up it over time to improve trailering, but I think at some point it gets to the point where you need to step back and ask, "should I start over with a different rig?".

I get trying to use what you have. I try to do it myself. I'm just not sure that trying to up engineer the trailer makes sense. If it were me, I would look for a four horse LQ that is in the right load range and go from there.

We do endurance riding, so we do tend to trailer to the back of beyond, often over steep hills/interstates, so it does color my view of the world...

All the best,

Peter

 

[bazman82]

Thanks @bazman82. It sounds like you have done your diligence! If it were me, I would go weigh the trailer to see how much of that 10,700 budget you already use.

Upgrading the truck axles may help; I don't know your model, so I don't know how the frame differs between the 2500 and 3500 models. I know some Ford (diesel) owners who did that and they were happy with the upgrades since on their models the frames were identical. I also don't know the Kiefer frame/design that well, but I would be surprised if the frame could take the extra weight. Trailers tend to be engineered to the absolute minimum, whereas pickups often use the same frame for several different models, and have frames with "available" capacity. (That's a broad brush comment; I do not know your particular version.) A couple of other things that I would look at would be other upgrades, like bigger oil coolers for the engine and transmission, shocks/air suspension, and my go to, bigger brakes. I had an old Ford F-350 that the prior owner and me both beefed up it over time to improve trailering, but I think at some point it gets to the point where you need to step back and ask, "should I start over with a different rig?".

I get trying to use what you have. I try to do it myself. I'm just not sure that trying to up engineer the trailer makes sense. If it were me, I would look for a four horse LQ that is in the right load range and go from there.

We do endurance riding, so we do tend to trailer to the back of beyond, often over steep hills/interstates, so it does color my view of the world...

All the best,

Peter

So all the research on the truck that I have done over the years was showing that our 2500 is the same as the 3500 just minus the extra leaf springs. Everything else is the same (engine etc). It wasn't until you get to the duallies and diesels that the engines differ. It's part of the reason we went with the 2500 back in 2015 because it fit our need at the time. I do have the RPO of our truck and can post the results of that if it helps any to see exactly what we have.

Also, I was just telling my wife that we should go weigh the truck and trailer to really find out what we are hauling for weight. I have a friend that does a ton of farming and I have been meaning to ask him if they had their own weigh station or if they used another families spot.

 

[bazman82]

Vehicle: Listed Below
Year: 2015
Build Date: 2014-10-20

RPO	Description
AG1	ADJUSTER FRT ST POWER, MULTI-DIRECTIONAL, DRIVER MULTI-DIRECTIONAL PWR D/SEAT ADJR(AG1)
AKO	WINDOW TYPE PRIVACY PRIVACY WINDOW(AKO)
AQQ	LOCK CONTROL, ENTRY REMOTE ENTRY, EXTENDED RANGE EXTENDED RANGE REMOTE LOCK CONTROL(AQQ)
AU3	LOCK,SIDE DOOR,ELECTRIC ELEC S/D LK(AU3)
AVF	IDENTIFICATION EFFECTIVE POINT CONTROL, 2015 1/2 M.Y.
AXK	VEHICLE TYPE TRUCK VEHICLE-TRUCK(AXK)
AY0	RESTRAINT SYSTEM SEAT, INFLATABLE, DRIVER & PASS, FRT SIDE, ROOF SIDE DRVR & PASS FRT SIDE & ROOF INFLATABLE RESTRAINT(AY0)
AZ3	Unk.
A31	WINDOW,ELECTRIC OPERATED,SIDE ELEC SI WDO(A31)
A60	LOCK CONTROL,RR COMPT, TAILGATE,KEY ACTIVATED RR COMPT LOCK CONTROL(A60)
A68	SEAT RR SPLIT, FOLDING FLDG SPLIT RR ST(A68)
BTV	CONTROL REMOTE ENGINE START REMOTE CONTROL ENGINE START(BTV)
BWN	STEPS CORNER ASSIST, BUMPER
B1J	LINER FENDER FDR LNR(B1J)
B30	CARPET,FLOOR AND WHEELHOUSE FLR CPT(B30)
B32	COVERING,FLOOR MATS,FRONT AUXILIARY FRT AUX FLR MATS(B32)
B33	COVERING,FLOOR MATS,REAR AUXILIARY RR AUX FLR MATS(B33)
B86	MOLDING B/S COLOR BODY SI MLDG(B86)
CJ2	HVAC SYSTEM AIR CONDITIONER FRT, AUTO TEMP CONT, AUX TEMP CONT A/C FRT AUTO/AUX CONT(CJ2)
CMD	PLANT CODE FLINT, MI, GM T&B FLINT, MI PLANT CODE(CMD)
C49	DEFOGGER,REAR WINDOW,ELECTRIC ELEC RR WDO DEFG(C49)
DH6	MIRROR,INSIDE,VISOR VANITY,RH AND LH(ILLUM) ILLUM S/S MIR(DH6)
DL8	MIRROR,OUTSIDE,RH AND LH REMOTE CONTROL,ELECTRIC,DEFOG ELEC R/CON HTD O/S MIR(DL8)
DP6	MIRROR PROVISIONS HOUSING, PAINTED PAINTED MIRROR HOUSING(DP6)
D75	HANDLE O/S,DR,BODY COLOR O/S BODY COLOR DR HDL(D75)
EF7	COUNTRY UNITED STATES OF AMERICA (USA) U S A(EF7)
E63	BODY EQUIPMENT,FLEETSIDE PICKUP BOX FLEETSIDE PUBX(E63)
FHS	VEHICLE FUEL GASOLINE E85 E85 GASOLINE VEH FUEL
GAZ	PRIMARY COLOR EXTERIOR, OLYMPIC WHITE (G) EXTERIOR COLOR(GAZ)
GEH	GVW RATING 9, 500 LBS 9,500 LB GVWR(GEH)
GT5	AXLE,REAR,4.10 RATIO 4.10R(GT5)
G80	AXLE,REAR,POSITRACTION,LIMITED SLIP POSITRACTION L/SLIP R/AXL(G80)
H0U	INTERIOR TRIM CONFIG CLOTH, LEVEL 2, JET BLACK INTERIOR TRIM STYLE(H0U)
IO5	RADIO INFOTAINMENT SYSTEM - UPLEVEL WITH CONNECTIVITY UPLEVEL RADIO W/CONNECTIVITY INFOTAINMENT SYSTEM(IO5)
I15	ENGINEERING YEAR 2015
JL1	Unk.
J95	BRAKE HYD POWER, SINGLE REAR WHEEL, 4 WHL DISC 4 WHL DISC BRAKES W/SINGLE REAR WHEEL(J95)
KC4	Unk.
KI4	RECEPTACLE ELECTRICAL, ACCESSORY 110 VOLT ACCESSORY - 100 VOLT ELECTRICAL RECEPTACLE(KI4)
KNP	COOLING SYSTEM,TRANSMISSION,HEAVY DUTY HVY DUTY TRANS CLG SYS(KNP)
KW5	GENERATOR 220 AMP 220 AMP GEN(KW5)
K34	CRUISE CONTROL,AUTOMATIC,ELECTRONIC CRCONT(K34)
K47	AIR CLEANER HIGH CAPACITY HI CAPACITY A/CL(K47)
L96	Unk.
MAH	MARKETING AREA NORTH AMERICA NORTH AMERICA(MAH)
MYD	TRANSMISSION AUTO 6 SPD, HMD, 6L-90 6-SPD A/TRANS(MYD)
NE1	CERTIFICATION EMISSION, GEOGRAPHICALLY RESTRICTED REGISTRATION FOR VEHICLES UP TO 14, 000 LBS GVW (USE 2 RESTRICTED REGISTRATION EMIS(NE1)
NP5	STEERING WHEEL,LEATHER WRAPPED LEATHER WRAPPED STRG WHL(NP5)
NQF	TRANSFER CASE ELECTRIC SHIFT CONT, TWO SPEED, ALUM 2-SPD ELEC SHIFT TRANSFER CASE(NQF)
NU1	EMISSION SYSTEM CALIFORNIA, LEV2 CALIFORNIA LEV2 EMIS(NU1)
NZZ	PACKAGE,OFF ROAD SKID PLATE,SPORT SKID PLT PKG(NZZ)
NZ4	WHEEL SPARE FULL SIZE, 17" STEEL FULL SIZE SPARE WHL(NZ4)
N37	STEERING COLUMN,TILT AND TELESCOPING T&T WHL(N37)
PCM	CONTROL - SALES ITEM NO. 106
PPA	EQUIPMENT ASSIST, OPEN & CLOSE, TAILGATE OPEN & CLOSE TAILGATE ASSIST(PPA)
PYQ	WHEEL 17 X 7.5, ALUMINUM, PREMIUM, HD 8 LUG ALUM WHL(PYQ)
QHQ	TIRE ALL LT245/75R17 E 121/118 R BW ALS TIRE(QHQ)
R9N	CONTROL - SALES ITEM NO. 89
SAF	LOCK SPARE TIRE, HOIST SHAFT SPARE TIRE LOCK HOIST SHF(SAF)
SLM	SALES PROCESSING - STOCK ORDERS
TG5	PLAYER COMPACT DISC AND MP3 COMPACT DISC & MP3 PLAYER(TG5)
TRW	PROVISIONS LAMP, ROOF MOUNTED RF MTD LMP PROV(TRW)
T3U	LAMP FRT FOG FRT FOG LAMP(T3U)
UDD	DISPLAY INSTRUMENT DRIVER INFO ENHANCED (MULTI COLOR GRAPHIC) DRIVER INFO ENHANCED DISPLAY(UDD)
UE1	COMMUNICATION SYSTEM VEHICLE, G.P.S. 1 GPS 1 VEH COMM SYS(UE1)
UJM	TIRE PRESS INDICATOR MANUAL LEARN MANUAL LEARN TIRE PRESS IND(UJM)
UK3	ELECTRONIC SYSTEM,ACCESSORY CONTROL ELEK ACSRY CONT SYS(UK3)
UMN	SPEEDOMETER INST, MILES & KILO, MILES ODOMETER MPH & KPH SPEEDO W/MILES ODOMETER(UMN)
UQ3	SPEAKER SYSTEM,PERFORMANCE ENHANCED AUDIO ENHANCED SPKR SYS(UQ3)
UTJ	THEFT DETERENT ELECTRICAL, UNAUTHORIZED ENTRY UNAUTHORIZED ENTRY THEFT DETERENT(UTJ)
UVC	CAMERA REAR VIEW REAR VIEW CAMERA(UVC)
U2K	DIGITAL AUDIO SYSTEM S-BAND DIGITAL S-BAND AUDIO SYS(U2K)
U73	ANTENNA,FIXED FIXED ANT(U73)
VJH	BUMPER RR CHROME CHROME REAR BUMPER(VJH)
VK3	LICENSE PLATE,FRONT MOUNTING PACKAGE FRT LIC PLT MTG PKG(VK3)
VRK	VALUE ADDED ASM ROOF TRIM UPLEVEL ROOF TRIM(VRK)
VT7	OWNERS MANUAL ENGLISH LANGUAGE ENGLISH LANGUAGE OWNERS MANUAL(VT7)
VV4	Unk.
VYU	PROVISIONS,SNOW PLOW SNOW PLOW PROVISIONS(VYU)
VZ3	LABEL MERCURY DISPOSAL NOTIFICATION MERCURY DISPOSAL NOTICE LABEL(VZ3)
V22	GRILLE,RADIATOR(CHROME) CHROME GRL(V22)
V46	BUMPER,FRONT(CHROME) CHROME FRT BPR(V46)
V76	HOOK,FRONT TOW FRT TOW HOOK(V76)
V8D	VEHICLE STATEMENT US US VEHICLE STATEMENT(V8D)
WMF	VIN MODEL YEAR 2015
XL7	FREQUENCIES RATING 315 MHZ LONG DISTANCE 315 MHZ FREQ(XL7)
X88	CONVERSION CHEVROLET CHEVROLET(X88)
YE9	CONVENIENCE PKG COMFORT & DECOR LEVEL #3 COMFORT & CONVENIENCE PKG #3(YE9)
ZHQ	TIRE SPARE LT245/75R17 E 121/118 R BW ALS SPARE TIRE(ZHQ)
ZY1	COLOR COMBINATION SOLID SOLID PAINT COMBO(ZY1)
Z82	TRAILERING PACKAGE(SPECIAL)(REESE TYPE HITCH) PROVISION FOR HD TRAILER EQUIP(Z82)
Z85	CHASSIS PACKAGE,INCREASED CAPACITY CHAS PKG(Z85)
1LT	PACKAGE LT OPTION 1 "LT" PKG(1LT)
1SZ	PACKAGE OPTION- (1SZ)
4AA	INTERIOR TRIM JET BLACK INT TRIM COLOR(4AA)
8X2	COMPONENT RR LH NON-COMPUTER SEL SUSP SUSP(8X2)
9X2	COMPONENT RR RH NON-COMPUTER SEL SUSP SUSP(9X2)

 

[2manyrocks]

In this day and age, I'd want the kids inside the camper at night in any public campground.

 

[ddbackhoe]

We have a 2003 Keifer genesis4 (could be wrong on the number). It is a weekend package so the interior is bare.

If you’re willing to pay for and do the upgrades, I would. I replaced a shadow 7’6” wide with a lakota 8 foot wide and 9’ slideout. Yes, you lose floor space while moving it (im not riding in it so…) but when opened up its a huge difference, especially on a rainy day.
FB page - horse trailer conversions II has some pretty cool diy upgrades.

Transport Custom Designs | Trailer Slideout Installation

transportcustomdesigns.com

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

I guess everyone is different. We have horses and I wouldn't want to sleep breathing the ammonia, flies and manure.
Having what you already have, horse & people trailer I'd just use that, two trucks, two drivers.
Or stay in a motel (the best).
Or sell everything but the trailer buying a good new/used RV (one like Verona Super C diesel motorhome...very low miles ones for $200K), towing horses with it.
Us, it would be truck, horse trailer, motel.

 

[ddbackhoe]

I guess everyone is different. We have horses and I wouldn't want to sleep breathing the ammonia, flies and manure.
Having what you already have, horse & people trailer I'd just use that, two trucks, two drivers.
Or stay in a motel (the best).
Or sell everything but the trailer buying a good new/used RV (one like Verona Super C diesel motorhome...very low miles ones for $200K), towing horses with it.
Us, it would be truck, horse trailer, motel.

The horses are normally out of the trailer when camping. There has been occasion to keep them on but its rare. There is a divider to separate people side from horse side.

 

[bazman82]

I guess everyone is different. We have horses and I wouldn't want to sleep breathing the ammonia, flies and manure.
Having what you already have, horse & people trailer I'd just use that, two trucks, two drivers.
Or stay in a motel (the best).
Or sell everything but the trailer buying a good new/used RV (one like Verona Super C diesel motorhome...very low miles ones for $200K), towing horses with it.
Us, it would be truck, horse trailer, motel.

There is a divider between the people area and horse area. You would never smell anything unless you left the horses on their for days and didn't clean it.

We thought about getting a 2nd truck (1500) to haul the camper. It only weighs 5k dry or we do have a 3 horse bumper pull that is used for most running around and quick pick ups and cows. But...its not economical as a daily driver and our commute is 50 miles round trip. I mean, we could possibly trade in our subaru for a 1500 and get an old beater car as a daily commuter vehicle but we would miss some of the luxuries of the subie. I'll run that by the wife since it really doesnt sound like a terrible idea.

I was looking at Super C class RV's that could tow our 3 horse bumper (max loaded would be around 6-8k). Most that would've been in our price range didn't have that towing capacity. 200k for us, is out of the question. Even 80k is pushing it but because we could possibly have 25k worth of trade between the 2 trailers for a trade in, we were considering it.

 

[ponytug]

Found on RacingJunk.com

Race Cars, Parts, Trailers & Engines for Sale | RacingJunk

Racing Classifieds Powered by RacingJunk Classifieds - Race cars for sale new and used

www.racingjunk.com

Sleeps up to six, 100gal diesel, 75 gal water, shower, toilet, gas stove, fridge/freezer, gooseneck hitch, or bumper pull.
Freightliner Fl70 frame, automatic transmission, differential lock for lousy surfaces (awesome feature, BTW)
Does a U-turn in three lanes. Hauled a 70,000lb race trailer from New York to San Diego with no issues.

It took me something like 18 months to find one at a price I wanted pay, and it ended being about half the price of a new F-450. 70,000 miles on a CAT3126 engine, which is nothing. Funny thing was I tried to buy the same one twice- once from the original owner, and then successfully from the dealer who got it from him (but at a lower price than the owner was willing to settle for. Go figure.)

I just think that there are out of box solutions that have the potential to be better/cheaper.

All the best,

Peter

 

[bazman82]

No special license to drive that thing?

 

[Sprinkler Fitter]

Back when we had horses we stayed in a motel and the horse trailer stayed a horse trailer. Who wants to sleep in a stinky horse trailer anyway? Not us.

many people want to. There are all kinds of horse trailer rv's around. Some people even sleep in a rv that hauls atv's

 

[Sprinkler Fitter]

No special license to drive that thing?

if it is licensed as a rv some states don't require any special license.

 

[ponytug]

No special license to drive that thing?

Nope. Normal drivers license, no extra training or certification required. That is a national thing.

Welcome to the wide open RV loophole that allows anyone with a normal driver's license to to drive a semi, provided a) you don't do it for hire, and b) the semi has at least three of a toilet, a stove, a fridge, or a bed, thereby making it an RV. (And that the truck is less than 40') It also means no health certificate, no log books, and nobody leaning over your shoulder on whether you have done all of your air brake checks.

The RV exemption is insane, but isn't going away. I admit that I am not a spring chicken, but the thought of moderately incapacitated folks by reasons of shall we say for example heart conditions can drive 40' 40,000lb RVs is, you have to admit, a little illogical. I see drivers climbing out of some large RVs having trouble with the stairs, and it makes me worry about their reaction times.

I will say my toter is very easy to drive, except for two things a) you have to get used to the size (height (11'6") and width (8')), and b) when you crank the front wheels all the way over, they are at something like 65 degrees, which means the front moves more laterally than forward, which means the side of the toter will cover ground not covered by the front wheels. The first was easy for me, the second took a little more learning, and then you fall in love. (That is why it can do a U-turn in three lanes.)

BTW, here in California, your setup would require you to have a Class A non-commercial license due to the weight of your trailer. Mine rig only needs is a standard Class C license.

https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/uploads/2020/06/comlhdbk.pdf

I did take the time to read the commercial drivers license handbook (above) for my state, and I do do the air brake / system tests as required for a commercial operator. I don't do log books, but I do follow the FMCSA rules as far as I understand them.

If you do consider a toter, I would suggest driving a couple different ones. The build quality varies greatly. I test drove one based on a Kodiak, and the while the build quality wasn't great, the builder had really put too much on the poor Kodiak, and it showed. The Renegade build quality is excellent, and my rig maintains 55mph going up the steep hills in the Sierras. My poor old 7.3 dually would fade to about thirty mph, or less trailering.

All the best,

Peter

 

[bazman82]

Thanks for the info Peter. I would honestly love to get a toter and then haul around our little bumper pull 3 horse but I don't see that happening. I took a look at the link you shared and some of those rigs are bigger than our house and more luxurious. I told my wife, lets sell everything we own so that we could put a down payment on this used 2018 toter lol.

 

[ddbackhoe]

Nope. Normal drivers license, no extra training or certification required. That is a national thing.

Md. has commercial and non-commercial classes also. A toter home would be a Class A non-commercial if personal use only.

“Please note: Motor homes/recreational vehicles can be different weight classes. Your license must reflect either the appropriate weight class for the vehicle you are operating or must have the appropriate motor home/recreational vehicle restriction code noted on your license.”

Recreational Vehicle Information - Pages

An official website of the State of Maryland.

mva.maryland.gov

If money is not the problem, Equine Motorcoach 4, 5, 6 Horse w/Hay Pod - Equine Motorcoach

 

[bazman82]

Md. has commercial and non-commercial classes also. A toter home would be a Class A non-commercial if personal use only.

“Please note: Motor homes/recreational vehicles can be different weight classes. Your license must reflect either the appropriate weight class for the vehicle you are operating or must have the appropriate motor home/recreational vehicle restriction code noted on your license.”

Recreational Vehicle Information - Pages

An official website of the State of Maryland.

mva.maryland.gov

If money is not the problem, Equine Motorcoach 4, 5, 6 Horse w/Hay Pod - Equine Motorcoach

Oh wow....I want one of those instead. It'd be perfect lol. Just need to win the lottery....

 

[ponytug]

Md. has commercial and non-commercial classes also. A toter home would be a Class A non-commercial if personal use only.

“Please note: Motor homes/recreational vehicles can be different weight classes. Your license must reflect either the appropriate weight class for the vehicle you are operating or must have the appropriate motor home/recreational vehicle restriction code noted on your license.”

Recreational Vehicle Information - Pages

An official website of the State of Maryland.

mva.maryland.gov

If money is not the problem, Equine Motorcoach 4, 5, 6 Horse w/Hay Pod - Equine Motorcoach

To confess, I drove one of those that belonged to a friend that was built on a Volvo chassis, and fell in love with it. My spouse could go back and check on the horses as we drove, and you could extend the ramp out the back as terrace or sleeping platform. Plus since the horses ride on the air suspension of the whole chassis, with the weight of the whole RV, they get a much, much smoother ride. Their compartment is insulated, so it is quieter, and cooler/warmer, as needed. The lower part of the cab hydraulically tilted forward for easy servicing of the engine and transmission.

Then I found that only six(6!) of the Volvo horse coaches had been imported, exactly once, and that they basically never came on the market. The one my friend bought was a lucky purchase. (Also for much less than a new F450.) In Europe, they are very, very common. Not so in the US, and those new ones can get to insane prices. I saw one for over $1M, of course it came with crystal glassware and Wedgewood china...

That lead me to the whole toterhome concept, and while I did consider rebuilding ours with a horse compartment to the rear, but decided that it was too pricey.

I am really happy with our toter. After years of sleeping in a shell on a pickup, is so great to have the luxury of a fridge, and shower in the boonies. The visibility from the cab is incomparable, with great mirrors everywhere, and I added a rear view camera for trailer hook up and to keep an eye on the trailer.

All the best,

Peter