Is there any science behind pucker factor?

[patrick_g]

Another point... Do we have any pilots who have been in flight simulators?

Vision is a powerful thing.

My primary USAF duty was instrument flying instructor on a Link trainer that simulated a T-33 (single engine jet fighter/trainer and occasionally I manned a B-52 or KC-135 simulator on a railroad car) I did not do primary flight training. My students were rated pilots on flight status and had to do a minimum of 2 hrs per quarter (90 days not 25 cents) with me IAW SAC regs. Combat aircrews (B-52 and KC-135 had to come to me to practice landings at their TDY bases and weather alternates. Our bomber and tanker guys took turns "visiting" Viet Nam.

I recall the first time (I was the shiny new guy then) I had a pilot get a phone call during a session. I just yanked the canopy open to hand him the phone and he nearly went cardiac on me. Luckily it wasn't one of my higher ranking students like the Base commander or the division commander as generals expect better treatment.

When you really get "INTO" a simulated instrument flight with ILS and GCA approaches, holding patterns from TACAN fixes with varying cross winds (I was brutal), "PRETEND" blurs into REAL. The guy I surprised was hunched over the stick peering intently into the ID-249 (instrument used in instrument landings) and his HSI (artificial horizon thingy) holding the stick with one hand and both the throttle and a graham cracker in the other. I don't know for sure what the deal was with graham crackers but many of my students carried them in a zipper compartment in the leg of their flight suit.

I was also responsible for maint of the machine and so flew it a lot (to perform diagnostics NOT escape other potential uses for my time) and can attest to how easily the sim world becomes real. Good sound simulation boosted the reality, you'd nearly swear you could smell traces of JP-4.

Reality was further boosted by simulated lightning (with its effects on instruments and radio static), turbulence, and such.

Pat

 

[N80]

I'm not a pilot (was a Major in the USAF though) and I did get a ride in the C-17 simulator at Charleston AFB. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately for whoever has to clean up the puke) they only ran the visual stuff and not the movement stuff. (The machine is VERY impressive from the outside I must say. Some serious hydraulics there.)

In any case, frm a non-pilot standpoint even the visuals gave you a sense of motion. When you banked you felt like you wanted to lean in your seat, etc.

It was my understanding (which may be flawed) that with the C-17 program new pilots did basic flight training (up to what trainer I do not know, but seems to me it was small) then went into the simulator and then right into the C-17. That's how realistic and accurate the simulator was.

I also got some cockpit time in the C-17...although its not in the pilot or co-pilot seat. The C-17 has a sort of 'back seat' area where you are right behind and a little above the pilot and co-pilot seats. Very cool.

 

[Rara Avis]

If you ever get a chance to try it...

Multi-Axis Trainer

The Multi-Axis Trainer simulates the disorientation one would feel in a tumble spin during reentry into the earth's atmosphere. The MAT is patterned after the MASTIF (Multi-Axis Spin Test Inertial Facility), a series of cages within cages, used for astronaut training during the Mercury program. Astronauts used the MASTIF to condition themselves for disorientation that might occur in emergency conditions during flight.

Because the trainee's stomach stays centered, nausea shouldn't occur. Also, the MAT shouldn't spin more than twice in a row in the same direction. This prevents inner ear fluid shifts and the dizziness that results.

Currently available to the public thru the following...

C O R P O R A T E C A M P

 

[patrick_g]

I also got some cockpit time in the C-17...although its not in the pilot or co-pilot seat. The C-17 has a sort of 'back seat' area where you are right behind and a little above the pilot and co-pilot seats. Very cool.

George, Lots of the larger USAF inventory had jump seats where you could observe the pilots. Check pilots often used these to review pilots. My operators console on the Link trainer had a sliding partial door to let me watch over the shoulder of my students.

Someone may find this amusing: My intro to flight sim was an impromptu christening in an old C-119 "Flying Boxcar" simulator. I didn't even get to kick the tires, just light the fires and blast off. At rotation (nose up to lift off the runway) I was at full power on both engines and the instructor failed one. I knew the theory of feathering a prop but ZERO practice so do to unballanced thrust, torque effects and P factor I did a half roll and an incomplete split S and augured a hole in the virtual dirt before I had time to get any adrenaline flowing. Of course everyone found it most amusing and reset the sim for the next victim.

The only multi time I got was in sims but if it has one engine and wheels, I'm your guy. I had to mod my sim to accommodate realistic approach speeds for timed approaches by rotor heads (chopper pilots) but I didn't mind as they used to give me stick time in helos.

Pat

 

[D7E]

The weight doesn't shift from one side of the tractor to another. The center of gravity changes.

And regardless of wether the load is above or below you ,Your aware of it and act accordingly,The pucker factor..There is no substitute,Tilt-o meters and stuff can give you a false security,Rely on your instincts .

 

[MossRoad]

I am so late to this thread that they only charged me 1/2 admission.
I think I do have to add a couple of thoughts.

Have you ever been in one of those huge theaters where they use the IMAX technology? You sit there in a seat and get the exact same feeling you get when the pucker factor kicks in. Your brain and everything else tells you that you are not going to fall off that cliff, but your posterior takes a suction grip on your seat and you hold on for all it's worth. ...at least I do. My pucker factor is tired out by the time I leave one of those theaters.

Another point... Do we have any pilots who have been in flight simulators? What is the feeling when motion is off, but you are flying with only the visual? I catch myself tensing my muscles and thinking about putting on the seatbelt when there is absolutely no motion of the simulator. Fly that simulator at a high bank angle with only the visual active and I start holding on tight. Some people even get motion sickness.

Vision is a powerful thing.

When I go to thrill parks, I have no problems with real roller coasters. I do, however, get quite queasy on the simulated ones that don't really go anywhere.

 

[RobJ]

Sorry if I hit a nerve Rob,

No nerve, you were just sort of all over the place. And Dateable, ok I left out the E but you got the point, last time I checked these days you can go to jail for just grabbing a women on the street and making her pregnant. Of cource you can go to jail by going on a date to I guess.

I think you missed a lot of my tongue and cheek comments, remember we're talking about something called the pucker factor.

If you want to be a cross dressing Lumber Jack and be OK, that is fine with me. I could care less what day you go shopping or have buttered scones for tea or whether or not you put on girlie clothing and hang around in bars. (My apologies to Monty Python!)

And then you take it personal....pity.

BTW, HGTV is a Home and Garden improvement show. My wife watches it, and I like sitting next to my wife. So I'm out...I've seen HGTV.

But really, where do personal attacks have a place in an intelligent conversation as you put it?

BTW means I'm kidding. Now who struck a nerve?

 

[patrick_g]

I say again Rob, I'm sorry. I guess we got out of phase like two people dodging back and forth in the hall trying to pass one another till they collide.

Unfortunately, I did miss the humor. Why am I surprised, it happens the other way around often enough.

It is a sure thing that I would be better off sometimes to remain silent and be thought a fool rather than to speak up and remove all doubt.

At the time it didn't seem so testy but in rereading I would have not done it the same.

Pat

 

[MossRoad]

That's one of the problems with typed conversations... you can't see the person's face or body language to go along with the words.

 

[RobJ]

That's one of the problems with typed conversations... you can't see the person's face or body language to go along with the words.

you couldn't be more correct. I promise I'm not an a-hole. Come to Texas this weekend and fine out.