Is there anything lower than a thief?

BamaRob · May 19, 2006

Sig,

I read and reread your original response several times and contemplated sending a reply several times. But, I try to make it a point to not make hasty replies to things that may not be interpreted as intended. That's one of the downfalls of written communication. It's often difficult to discern the true intention.

The first thing that popped in my mind after reading your first response was, "Why would one assume that my guns were not in a safe?" I never mentioned whether they were or not. Why would you make this assumption? Because they were stolen? A gun safe, in my opinion, certainly helps prevent tragic accidents where adventurous youngsters are messing with guns without the proper knowledge of them. But, (also my opinion) they only provide a "measure" of security against theft. A determined theif will get the guns if they want them.

My guns were not in a safe. And, in hindsight, I sure wish that they had of been. The limited "measure" of security that a safe provides may have been enough to keep this thief from getting my guns. The monetary loss associated with this isn't much of an issue for me. Material things can be replaced. No big deal. The fact that my personal space was invaded without my knowledge or consent is a much greater issue for me. If the thieves (or whoever ends up with my guns) do harm to someone else with them, I will feel no personal responsibility. It'll only increase my disgust and anger toward the thieves (the responsible parties).

I'll be the first to admit that I'm somewhat naive when it comes to home security. I grew up in the same rural community that I'm fortunate enough to live in today. Growing up, the doors were hardly ever locked. We had no air conditioning, so the windows were pretty much left open all summer. We didn't have methamphetamine labs popping up all over rural America. And, we didn't have meth addicts burglarizing homes, snatching purses, stealing money from parents, other relatives and friends so they can get their next fix. It's been progressively getting worse in our area for the past decade or so.

This experience has been a real eye-opener for me. As 1bush2hog mentioned, my primary concern at this point is to take measures to ensure my family's protection and comfort level. In the very near future, there will be a heavy gate on my drive and a custom security system installed in the house. I'll probably purchase a gun safe, also. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I'll do all of this with the understanding that they only provide a "measure" of security, but will perhaps help us all get back to feeling "at home" in our home.

I really appreciate all the replies. Gotta go now. Need to track down some serial numbers and price security systems.

Thanks,

BamaRob

BamaRob · May 19, 2006

Sig,

I read and reread your original response several times and contemplated sending a reply several times. But, I try to make it a point to not make hasty replies to things that may not be interpreted as intended. That's one of the downfalls of written communication. It's often difficult to discern the true intention.

The first thing that popped in my mind after reading your first response was, "Why would one assume that my guns were not in a safe?" I never mentioned whether they were or not. Why would you make this assumption? Because they were stolen? A gun safe, in my opinion, certainly helps prevent tragic accidents where adventurous youngsters are messing with guns without the proper knowledge of them. But, (also my opinion) they only provide a "measure" of security against theft. A determined theif will get the guns if they want them.

My guns were not in a safe. And, in hindsight, I sure wish that they had of been. The limited "measure" of security that a safe provides may have been enough to keep this thief from getting my guns. The monetary loss associated with this isn't much of an issue for me. Material things can be replaced. No big deal. The fact that my personal space was invaded without my knowledge or consent is a much greater issue for me. If the thieves (or whoever ends up with my guns) do harm to someone else with them, I will feel no personal responsibility. It'll only increase my disgust and anger toward the thieves (the responsible parties).

I'll be the first to admit that I'm somewhat naive when it comes to home security. I grew up in the same rural community that I'm fortunate enough to live in today. Growing up, the doors were hardly ever locked. We had no air conditioning, so the windows were pretty much left open all summer. We didn't have methamphetamine labs popping up all over rural America. And, we didn't have meth addicts burglarizing homes, snatching purses, stealing money from parents, other relatives and friends so they can get their next fix. It's been progressively getting worse in our area for the past decade or so.

This experience has been a real eye-opener for me. As 1bush2hog mentioned, my primary concern at this point is to take measures to ensure my family's protection and comfort level. In the very near future, there will be a heavy gate on my drive and a custom security system installed in the house. I'll probably purchase a gun safe, also. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif I'll do all of this with the understanding that they only provide a "measure" of security, but will perhaps help us all get back to feeling "at home" in our home.

I really appreciate all the replies. Gotta go now. Need to track down some serial numbers and price security systems.

Thanks,

BamaRob

CurlyDave · May 19, 2006

No different than if someone steals your car and uses it to commit a crime! The owner of the gun/car is not responsible for the future acts committed by a criminal.

This is not really correct. In both instances there may be significant liability associated with either having a gun or a car stolen.

In the People's Republic of California, you are liable for crimes committed with stolen handguns, and there can be years of jail time involved. I believe it is the same in other anti-gun juristictions.

Similarly with cars, as the owner, you are liable for accidents, even if the car is stolen. In theory, your driver license can be suspended, although I have not ever heard of that happening.

Having car insurance removes your liability, as does having your guns in a safe.

In CA, there are minimum requirements for a gun safe. Some of the lower cost ones that Cabela's sells are not good enough to pass muster in CA (and they won't stop theives either).

P.S. With any safe, your first line of defense is concealment. Try hard to prevent a thief from finding it in the first place, don't tell your buddies about it, don't show it to visitors, and put it in a place where it is protected from attack.

CurlyDave · May 19, 2006

No different than if someone steals your car and uses it to commit a crime! The owner of the gun/car is not responsible for the future acts committed by a criminal.

This is not really correct. In both instances there may be significant liability associated with either having a gun or a car stolen.

In the People's Republic of California, you are liable for crimes committed with stolen handguns, and there can be years of jail time involved. I believe it is the same in other anti-gun juristictions.

Similarly with cars, as the owner, you are liable for accidents, even if the car is stolen. In theory, your driver license can be suspended, although I have not ever heard of that happening.

Having car insurance removes your liability, as does having your guns in a safe.

In CA, there are minimum requirements for a gun safe. Some of the lower cost ones that Cabela's sells are not good enough to pass muster in CA (and they won't stop theives either).

P.S. With any safe, your first line of defense is concealment. Try hard to prevent a thief from finding it in the first place, don't tell your buddies about it, don't show it to visitors, and put it in a place where it is protected from attack.

KubotaSteve · May 19, 2006

Rob,
I agree that locks and the like are of little deterence to a thief who wants what is inside. Most thieves are lazy though and go for easy stuff.
With that said, I remember several years back in my area there were several people stealing gas (back when it was quite easy to siphon gas from a car). Everyone started buying locking gas caps, which in turn had the thieves get creative and start punching holes in the bottom of the gas tank to get the gas. Now you are not only out the gas, but must get your gas tank fixed.
I've only had my truck broken into and that was bad enough but a real eye opener as to how people are. I couldn't imagine getting my house burglarized.
If you get a chance, watch that show on Discovery (I think) "It takes a Thief" you can learn a lot of good tips to protect yourself. An example is that around basement windows to plan thorny bushes which is a very good deterent to go in that window. You can pick up quite a few good tips from that show. My next item is going to be to get a digital security camera located at various spots around the house.

KubotaSteve · May 19, 2006

Rob,
I agree that locks and the like are of little deterence to a thief who wants what is inside. Most thieves are lazy though and go for easy stuff.
With that said, I remember several years back in my area there were several people stealing gas (back when it was quite easy to siphon gas from a car). Everyone started buying locking gas caps, which in turn had the thieves get creative and start punching holes in the bottom of the gas tank to get the gas. Now you are not only out the gas, but must get your gas tank fixed.
I've only had my truck broken into and that was bad enough but a real eye opener as to how people are. I couldn't imagine getting my house burglarized.
If you get a chance, watch that show on Discovery (I think) "It takes a Thief" you can learn a lot of good tips to protect yourself. An example is that around basement windows to plan thorny bushes which is a very good deterent to go in that window. You can pick up quite a few good tips from that show. My next item is going to be to get a digital security camera located at various spots around the house.

gsganzer · May 19, 2006

( The limited "measure" of security that a safe provides may have been enough to keep this thief from getting my guns. )

I wouldn't quantify a quality safe like a Cannon, Ft. Knox, etc. as a limited measure. Nobody is going to get into those safes unless they are very determined, very knowledgeable and have plenty of time.

gsganzer · May 19, 2006

( The limited "measure" of security that a safe provides may have been enough to keep this thief from getting my guns. )

I wouldn't quantify a quality safe like a Cannon, Ft. Knox, etc. as a limited measure. Nobody is going to get into those safes unless they are very determined, very knowledgeable and have plenty of time.

greatrandini · May 19, 2006

Sorry dude, I hope the scum who stole ur stuff is caught. LMTC is correct that you deserve no less sympathy because your guns were not in a safe. I think a safe is sometimes just a convienent carrying case for the thieves any way. Some of these theives come prepared. A family a couples miles away put up a driveway gate for security. They installed an automatic gate opener. Someone stole the opener. It is hard to win this battle. I have an alarm system with numerous signs saying that I have an alarm system. I German Shepard Dogs in the back yard. The best security I have is a retired couple across the road and a next door neihbor who makes the drive home for lunch. I still do not feel secure.

greatrandini · May 19, 2006

Sorry dude, I hope the scum who stole ur stuff is caught. LMTC is correct that you deserve no less sympathy because your guns were not in a safe. I think a safe is sometimes just a convienent carrying case for the thieves any way. Some of these theives come prepared. A family a couples miles away put up a driveway gate for security. They installed an automatic gate opener. Someone stole the opener. It is hard to win this battle. I have an alarm system with numerous signs saying that I have an alarm system. I German Shepard Dogs in the back yard. The best security I have is a retired couple across the road and a next door neihbor who makes the drive home for lunch. I still do not feel secure.