"It's Easier to Bury a Tradition Than a Child"

[N80]

I've never been on or before a jury. Never even been called for jury duty. I think the jury system is badly broken, but if I'm ever called for jury duty I'll do it to the best of my ability. But I'll also avoid selection to the extent that law and duty allow.

It makes me want to avoid having a jury make decisions effecting me.
Pat

Amen to that. In fact, that could be modified to make it one of those 'words to live by' type phrases.

Unfortunately, in my line of work, chances are pretty high I will find myself at the mercy of a jury at some point. In fact, my med school professors and residency staff pretty much told us that if we stayed in clinical practice we could expect to be named in a suit. So far I have not, but I've only been doing this about 17 years now and have at least 20 to go.

 

[gemini5362]

Legitamate.. like the woman who sued MD's and won a huge amount, even still huge when cut in half... all because she doesn't understand what 'hot' in 'hot coffee' meant?

Legitmacy and judicial process have so very little in common that many people use the court system as an income source.. the courts and lawyers allow this.. so even though a few companies stand on principle and litigate no matter what.. the trend won't stop till some judicial reform occurs i'm afraid..

soundguy

I was very specific to say most juries. There are always the oddball juries that seem to think that it is ok to stick it to big corporations. I feel the majority of juries try to make an honest realistic decision. I was on a jury where a woman wanted 250,000 dollars for a car wreck where she was in a full sized chevrolet car. The guy that hit her was in one of the older (around 1965) subaru cars. The evidence showed he was doing 3.1 miles an hour when he hit her. They knew that because the shock absorber in her bumper had not went all the way in. I was the only one that wanted to pay her any money at all. The subaru driver was clearly at fault no doubt about that he hit her car and caused damage to her bumper. We awarded her 56.00 which was the cost of repairs to her bumper

 

[patrick_g]

Unfortunately, in my line of work, chances are pretty high I will find myself at the mercy of a jury at some point. In fact, my med school professors and residency staff pretty much told us that if we stayed in clinical practice we could expect to be named in a suit.


George, Just don't get me started on the topic of medical malpractice!!!

I know there are times when a malpractice suit is reasonable and prudent action given the circumstances but in general the situation is wildly out of hand. We need medical personnel to be able to practice their skills for the benefit of us all without a bunch of incredibly bad suits running up the insurance and driving doctors out of whole geographic areas.

When I buy a product I like to think that much of the cost is in what I get not in liability insurance because someone may choose to carry their cordless drill with an auger in place in their crotch while riding as a passenger.

Ditto for docs! I'd like to think I am paying both interest and principle on any student loans. I don't mind a small part of the bill going to green fees and CC membership, big screen TV, or a second Escolade. I really hate that such a big chunk has to go to malpractice insurance, not because the doctor makes so many mistakes but because people are so eager to sue to try to tap deep pockets and idiot juries are eager to help.

Pat

 

[unreconstructed]

Thought maybe the bailiff would ask who is the idiot parked in the Sheriff's parking space on a John Deere tractor flying an Army of Northern Virginia Battle Flag with the NRA sticker on the back. That oughta get me dismissed real quick.

Done two criminal trials--one DWI--no biggie. the other aggravated sexual assault of a child. I'll volunteer for anything not to serve on another one of those.

 

[Soundguy]

Yes, it means you have an opportunity to do your civic duty, raise the average IQ and deliberative capability of the panel, and give both sides the benefit of your wisdom.

I have only been on one jury and frankly I shudder to think how off the track the jury would have been had I not spoken out to bring some logic to the process. It makes me want to avoid having a jury make decisions effecting me.

Pat

reminds me of the last jurry I was on.. one member was an 18yr old kid who tried his best to sleep thru the evidence part of the trial.. then once in jury chambers, everyone kind of sat around staring at each other .. I decided to call a 'straw poll' just to see where we were on the evidence / verdict.... came up unanimus.. go figure.. those people probably would have sat their staring at each other for an hour if someone hadn't stepped up...

soundguy

 

[N80]

I know there are times when a malpractice suit is reasonable and prudent action

Yep. And I think the same is true for products and companies. Like I said, if McDonalds had given this lady boiling hot coffee when she'd ordered an ice cold coke; that would be a different story. If they left a 40 foot hole in their sidewalk and she'd fallen in it; that would be a different story. If they laced their french fries with something poisonous and toxic.... like, say, tobacco for instance() that would be a different story.

But then there is the amount issue. That's what really makes this particular case, and so many like it, illegitimate. What is the purpose of such an amount. By all medical accounts this woman should have been expected to recover completely. The amount rewarded far exceeded lost time, wages and medical expenses. It far exceedes the memory of her own pain and stupidity. And the simple act of putting a price on "pain and suffering" is an ethical and philosophical nightmare of an idea. The implications are huge and more than potentially dehumanizing.

So the only thing left is punishing McDonalds. I have no problem with that idea. But the punishment has to fit the crime. I'm not talking about it being proportional to their net worth either. But let's not worry about either one of those aspects. Let's say that the amount of the award fit the crime and was appropriate to assure corporate responsibility in the future. Fine.

But why does SHE get it? Don't get me wrong, if she is due lost wages and medical expenses and a reasonable amount for damages, why is she due the punitive part of the award.

Morally and ethically she isn't. The reason she legally is is that it must be structured that way for ambulance chasers to make the big bucks. Period. End of story.

That's why this whole McDonalds thing is such a sad parody of our legal system and frankly, an embarrassment. In this case the only two things that were rewarded were stupidity and greed and if it is true that the 'punitive' aspect of the settlement was a drop in the bucket for McDonalds, then even THAT aspect of the suit was a farse. Stupidity and greed, and nothing else.

 

[mjarrels]

Worst part of the Jury is that they are made up of folks that arn't smart enough to get out of Jury duty!

mark

 

[patrick_g]

Worst part of the Jury is that they are made up of folks that arn't smart enough to get out of Jury duty!

mark

I have been called up for duty twice but only empaneled once.

Getting out of jury duty doesn't show how smart you are but how little you really care for our society. You want the benefits but none of the responsibilities.

Don't sulk in the corner with tears streaming down your face but... I personally think dodging a duty, a civic responsibility is not indicative of good citizenship. If you are smart enough to weasel out of a responsibility then you are smart enough to help tip the scales toward better juries.

Yes, I volunteered for military service during the little fracas called Viet Nam. No I did not get a draft notice to spur that action.

There are at least three major categories of "kids on the merry-go-round", 1. the ones helping to keep it spinning, 2. the ones getting a free ride, and 3. the ones dragging their feet. They say it takes all kinds but I am willing to try it without so many of some of the kinds.

So many people shirk their duty and then complain how bad the system is. Well du-uh!!!!

No, I don't volunteer to pay extra taxes but I would if I could earmark the $ for what I wanted to fund.

I don't sleep covered in an American flag. I don't feel comfortable shouting love it or leave it but I do think you should try to help fix it and if not you have absolutely no right to complain.

We need to do the right thing even when it isn't fun, profitable, being noticed, or popular.

Pat

 

[rox]

I was very specific to say most juries. There are always the oddball juries that seem to think that it is ok to stick it to big corporations. I feel the majority of juries try to make an honest realistic decision. I was on a jury where a woman wanted 250,000 dollars for a car wreck where she was in a full sized chevrolet car. The guy that hit her was in one of the older (around 1965) subaru cars. The evidence showed he was doing 3.1 miles an hour when he hit her. They knew that because the shock absorber in her bumper had not went all the way in. I was the only one that wanted to pay her any money at all. The subaru driver was clearly at fault no doubt about that he hit her car and caused damage to her bumper. We awarded her 56.00 which was the cost of repairs to her bumper

All you Americans would probably love it here in France then. There is hardly any suing anybody. We needed a lawyer to get an export document notorized and wouldn't you know it the only ones who can do that are Notaires. Now a Notaire in France is different than in USA. Over here they are lawyers who only practice law for real estate transactions, wills and estates and I think that is about it. Guess what for a city of 45,000 people there are only 3 Notaires. We couldn't get into any of the 3 in our city, just to get our signature notarized so we ended up getting on in Cannes where we have a condo. We figured Cannes would have more cosmpolitan Notaires and they would take us for a quick signature. We were right my hsuband did this task and he said he was ther a half an hour and the Notaire was very careful to explain the international law of exactly what his seal was etc. etc. We didn't care we just wanted it notarized legally enforceable or not the document was not that big a deal. So it cost us 30 Euros and a visit to a lawyer to get a simple notary of our signature.

There are jsut not as many lawyers over here and there are many many many laws so I guess there is not that much that is undecided. There are very specific laws about a stone wall seperating 2 properties, who owns the wall. Or another laws about two seperate building that share a common wall. The French have codified so many of these issues I'm convinced they don't have the same need for lawsuites as the USA does. Plus there are more government agencies that control/supervise the doctors. If you received some poor medical care you would go to the regulatory agency and not a lawyer. I have been here 4 years now and I have never heard about a big windfall lawsuit an individual ahs won.

It works different here the French seem to clump more together than Americans. So I ahve seen things like a bad apricot crop and all the farmers getting together and getting a hand out fromt he government. It's called "an envelope" as in "I got an envelope it's not much but it helps" So rather than one farmer suing claiming to be denied a particular benefit that he is qualified for, he gets together in his farming organization and they go as a group to get what they want. Everybody over here is a member of a group. If you are a self employed plumber you belong to the plumbers association. You would not be a plumber and not join. There is an organization for everything. It is kind of like the concept of a union however the members of the group are business owners not employees. They all stick together when it comes to something they want.

That is why there are so many strikes here the French clump together. Everybody strikes here. I had to laugh whent he firement went on strike, they still show up for work but they drive their firetruck around town with the lights on but nto the siren and they have written on the firetruck "On Strike" Everybody strikes here doctors strike. Oh! A really good strike was the postal workers strike from about 15 years ago. The strike went on for like 6 months so the French government sent all their mail to Italy to be sorted and then hired independents to deliver the mail. That one cracked me up. People over here clump together more. Less suing but more strikes I guess...

 

[unreconstructed]

I wear NRA caps and anything I know the government doesn't like when I report. Hasn't worked so far. Seems I pass voir dire with flying colors. Since I myself did not make my senior trip to Viet Nam republic of, I guess I am getting pay back with jury service. the cops escorted us out after we gave a guilty verdict on a criminal conviction. what fun. Been picked four times, all criminal. two went to trial Like I said the DWI was no big deal. was a hoot actually.

In fact, I never been over the puddle. Had one deployment where our BN went to a LIC in central America except for my stinking platoon. Begged the BC to send me too, but he said shut up and do what you are told. Oh well. Still got all my fingers and toes. My baby boy seen more incoming in the real deal than I seen outgoing in training. At least he does not hold it against me. I don't think.