Its ugly... might be a boat anchor... but

[bjr]

I'm not reading as to "why" new parts are not a option? Surely there's either OEM or Aftermarket parts? bjr

 

[dem45133]

I'm not reading as to "why" new parts are not a option? Surely there's either OEM or Aftermarket parts? bjr

OK... its getting a little confusing for people to follow:

Here's the jist... 1) Block casting may or may not be usable... I can't tell if the liner in it (if it has one) has the block casting all the way to the top. If the block casting itself comes all the way up... then its bad... and simply getting a new liner will not do it. unless I custom design one... if it can be held by the base of the cylinder, or if the liner is held by the base of the cyclinder... maybe it can be repaired.

2) head casting may or may not be usable.... likely not if it was for normal duty or something someone had to stand behind and warranty.

I was hoping some one knew how the liner and block was designed. I do not yet have a shop manual (its coming)... I bought the engine on the potential to be rebuilt... Its ugly... but the jury is still out.

I will be using new parts to repair if the block and head can be salvaged. But to buy both and a full rebuild kit, or a short block and a head, would get a bit pricey for my more or less non-existent budget (by some standards). Sure an industrial unit that's costing a $100k a day in down time warrents a 7k new engine immediately... for a boat conversion to inboard, that's still in the idea stage only, its a "see what we can do with it". I'm in it for an entire $75, plus a tank of fuel.

Dave

 

[dem45133]

couple more pictures... strange to pull the head and look straight down into the pan isn't it? Never saw one loose its piston totally before. Seen them beat up... but still attached to the rod.

Since what I assume to be the throttle is locked in one position (see picture) that looks to be a fairly wide open position too maybe????, I'd say it had likely been on a gen set or other continuous high rpm application. Probably running unattended. High rpms and unattended... not a good combination, as you can see. The other three cylinders continued to do their thing... until someone heard it or saw the smoke and came running to shut it down I suspect. Must have made a **** of a nasty racket!

 

[ThomasH]

Regardless of how the block was designed (wet or dry liner), a wet liner can be installed, and it is typically only supported at the top and bottom. I had one done about 2 years ago and it was $100.

It's not unusual for valves to break, and drop down in the cylinder, and instant destruction of the cylinder.

 

[deereman75]

You might be able to run it on only 3 cyl, I have seen a ford model t engine cut in half to be used for a marine engine. This was done in the depression, to save fuel. They cut the whole block in half with a hacksaw (not a powered one), and converted it to a 2 cyl. What you could probably do is run it without the piston and connecting rod in the bad cyl, and remove that injector. It wont run as smooth as it should, but it should work.

 

[crazyal]

You might be able to run it on only 3 cyl, I have seen a ford model t engine cut in half to be used for a marine engine. This was done in the depression, to save fuel. They cut the whole block in half with a hacksaw (not a powered one), and converted it to a 2 cyl. What you could probably do is run it without the piston and connecting rod in the bad cyl, and remove that injector. It wont run as smooth as it should, but it should work.

You would also have to repair the liner so antifreeze wouldn't leak out. But it would be an interesting idea.

 

[magicheater]

Thanks, The others appear to be just fine... must be something about the photo. No issue with head gasket.

Heck for what I'm in it for, I may turn my own liner (or modify one), clean up the head... hold back on the injector depth (asuming it still seals)... throw it back together and see what happens. Might run for years... might run 15 minutes. But I haven't given up yet.

Actually, although this is a tractor site (of which I have four)... I bought this as a possible power source for a 33 year old $800 27 ft sailboat. Its 4 times the power it needs for hull speed... but since the boat weights 6500 lbs.. I want the extra available for maneuvering in tight places... like the slip when the wind is wrong. It takes a lot to stop 6500 lbs on water. the little 12 hp outboard almost let me hit the dock. Also owners of 100K boats hate us being near them with an $800 boat that may or may not stop. I'd also like to cruise at hull speed at about 1400 rpm... just a hair above idle... not screaming along like the 12 hp 2 stroke outboard it currently is, or the 2400 rpm for the Volvo Penta 2 cylinder 13 hp the inboard version of the same boat came with (I have one of these from a hurricane salvage boat of the same model as mine, but haven't installed it yet). I also want to V-drive it to keep the cabin open. Its only about 250 lbs heavier than the 13 hp volvo penta... believe it or not... but this puts the weight more aft so I may even incorporate some hydro planes which are foam filled for floating the extra weight level at sailing speeds, and yet add a little lift for adding a couple more knots above hull speed maybe, but this engine will almost never be at 100% power and full rpm again for very long, just short stints to stop or get going.

Yea, I'm a horse of a different color... I'll modify more or less anything... and make it better... or at least closer to what I want something to do. For instance I just bought a heavy shafted rudder and gearbox from a small work boat.. that gives me the basis for a new more authoritative rudder down under the hull instead of sorta hung on the stern with a tiller. Nope, can't let me think about anything... I'll redesign and rebuild it or something. Done so for years.

Dave

I like the way you think Dave, I'm an old Mine Sweep sailor (MSO 429) and spent a fair amount of time around the fish piers in Boston and was stationed in Kittery, ME, right across the Piscatauqua River from Portsmouth, NH. I can remember the fishing boats running the recyled 455 V-8's and screaming as they went by. The Piscatauqua has a reputation for some fierce tidal action. I like what you are doing, and thinking! :thumbsup:

 

[dem45133]

You might be able to run it on only 3 cyl, I have seen a ford model t engine cut in half to be used for a marine engine. This was done in the depression, to save fuel. They cut the whole block in half with a hacksaw (not a powered one), and converted it to a 2 cyl. What you could probably do is run it without the piston and connecting rod in the bad cyl, and remove that injector. It wont run as smooth as it should, but it should work.

Thought about that too... but to be smooth it would have to be two cylinders... but then that would now be down to the 19 or 20 hp range and sorta defeating my purpose. Running three would have better power... but that lope you'd feel through the entire hull. Remember... marine loads are constant work... Nope, I'll get some kind of cylinder back in it. Even if I had to go to a couple mm smaller diameter on the bore to keep a strong enough wall on non cast... I'd still get 95 or so % of design out of that bore.

 

[Hooked_on_HP]

If it has sleeves the block is a easy fix.Look at cyl from the bottom.This is usually the easy way to toll if it has sleeves. The bottom of the sleeve is machined and where the bottom of the sleeve meets the block there will be a line around the cyl.If the liner goes through the casting look on the out side of the bottom of the cyl for machine marks. You will be able to tell where the sleeve meets the casting. I would let a machine shop look at the head. They can magnaflux it and find cracks that you cannot see.
Bill

 

[dem45133]

I like the way you think Dave, I'm ..... I like what you are doing, and thinking! :thumbsup:

Central WI... I have stomping grounds up by Eagle River (Family...parents and grandparents buried there) as well as over in St Croix County. I do miss western Wisconsin and real winter. They only have perpetual fall here... but they do not know it. Locals complain all the time over 14 snow flakes and 30 degrees. They have no concept of 30 below and 3 feet of snow. I just chuckle.

If you like this.... you'd really like another concept I've wondered about. I have a general aviation interest I've never been able to feed. But I've really wondered about the idea of using Deutz's individual air cooled cylinder-head diesel design and incorporating around a common crank pin radial... like the Pratt and Whitney's just smaller in the 200 hp class. Getting it strong AND Light is a constant battle in aviation.