JD 336 Baler Problems

[sadair]

I recently purchased a 336 baler. When I run the needles through their cycle they are coming up well behind the tucker fingers and even behind the knotter. That is they do not pass through the knotting mechanism. I have tried adjusting the needle mounting bolts to no avail. The frame where the needles are bolted appears OK. The only thing that I can figure is that the needle are bent into a tighter circle or they are not the correct needles for the baler. Is there another adjustment to make? Any other thoughts?

Thanks!!!

 

[zzvyb6]

Picture worth 1001 words. Give us a shot during the needle lift where the tips are passing near the twine disks.

Take a needle off and look for a part number in the casting. Check this number vs. those on the JD Parts web site. Obviously look for welding flash. Compare the two needles to see if they are the same shape and dimensions.

There is quite a bit of adjustment available on the lift frame rockers.

 

[zzvyb6]

14T needles are AM3921
24T needles are AE12494 or AE15136
336 needles are AE15136 or AE36262 or AFH202537

Scratch some paint off and see if there is any red, orange, or blue paint under there. That's a brand issue.

You're gonna need a volunteer to measure the tip to bolt distance of a legit 336 needle and go from there.

 

[sadair]

Thanks for the replies. The number on the one needle I have off is AE 36262, so it appears that the needles are correct. Both needles do not come close to the twine disk. They pass about an inch behind the knotter mechanism (without touching it at any time). I will try and get a picture this evening and post. I also found the tucker finger shaft (# 2 in attached diagram) to be bent. I am replacing it.

Finding an operational 336 is an idea and measuring the needles will help to determine if the needle is bent. I wonder if the dealer has one in stock? The needle frame does not appear bent but I would assume that is also possible.

Anny additional ideas would be appreciated.

 

[Tx Jim]

sadair
Needles have been know to get re-curved from balers getting out of time or needle brake getting too loose/worn allowing needles to move into bale chamber prematurely. It very important that needle brake linings are in good condition and snug. It's also very important that plunger head stop dog is free and operating correctly with no broken spring or binding of this part(E56303 LEVER). As stated your balers needles will need to be compared to a good used or new needle to see if curve is correct. I've also witnessed bent needle frames(part # AE36620 FRAME) that is very difficult to check visually.

 

[sadair]

Here are a couple of photos with the needles all the way forward. With the needles in their home position there is 4-6 inches of the needle in the bale chute. The more I look at it I believe the needles are bent. Thanks for any ideas.

 

[kuboman]

Just an observation from your pictures. First your knotter stack is not pinned down. It looks like the wiper arm is wiping and it should not be with the needles in that position. The needles appear to have a weird curve to them.
My guess....things are out of time and the needles got bent.
It looks like a mess.

 

[RickB]

Just an observation from your pictures. The needles appear to have a weird curve to them.

It looks like a mess.

That's for certain. I'd take a hard look at the needle carriage as well. I'll bet it is bent, too. Hope you got a screaming deal on this baler.

 

[Tx Jim]

That's for certain. I'd take a hard look at the needle carriage as well. I'll bet it is bent, too. Hope you got a screaming deal on this baler.

The only way I know of to find out which part or parts is bent is put a good/not bent needle beside the old needle and compare the curvature!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kuboman I will remind you to check operation of the PH stop as it must be malfunctioning for needles to get bent.

I'm with you as Rick as I also will bet the needle frame is bent.
AFH202537 NEEDLE, TWINE W/ GUIDE ADD 130.00 USD 260.00
AE36620 FRAME, NEEDLE ADD 385.00 USD

 

[sadair]

I had both knotters unbolted because I had to take off the tucker finger shaft and replace it. I had run it through several cycles with the knotters flipped up so that is probably why the wiper arm is out of position. Thanks for your help.

 

[sadair]

Unfortunately I did not get a good deal, though I did pay on the bottom end of what a used woking 336 would go for. It actually looks really good cosmetically when compared with other 336 balers I have seen advertised for a lot more. I was told that when the baler was parked it was baling. Spoke with the guy last night and he still swore the baler was working when he parked. I had bought it a couple of months ago and parked it in my shed, Just got it out to go over it and realized the problems.

 

[kuboman]

Just to start you may want to check the timing. When you trip the knotter to start a tie as the plunger moves back the needles should just start to enter the bale case as the end of the plunger passes over the needles. I would check that first. If that is in time the rest of the knotter processes should be in time also.

 

[zzvyb6]

Ok, now how about a sideview picture of the needle frame when fully retracted and the needles are in home position. A closeup of the needle to needle frame too.

My guess is that the plunger hit the needles but did not break them, just bent them back.

Or, the mounts on the needle frame are bent (twisted). And its badly out of time (no big deal to reset time, may need new or straightened needles.)

Here's how it ought to look (yes its a different model but the needle threading throught the fames past the twine disks is the same).

YouTube - John Deere Baler Knotter Action

Remove the needles and lay them flat on the floor, both together. The stacked set ought to be identically shaped and flat.

Check the knotter frames to look for cracks. Those are the parts I hate to change.

If the baler was claimed to be working AND tying knots when you bought it, I'd go back for some money from the previous owner.

 

[sadair]

zzvyb6,

I think you are correct about the needles or needle mounts are bent (or both). Will try and get some photos with the needles in their home position. I can say this is that when they are in home position there is still 3-6 inches of the needle ends sticking into the bale chamber. The JD dealer does not have new needles in stock so I am trying to find someone with a 336 to compare. I hate to spend the money on new needles when it is the frame.

Also thanks for the video link. The needles are not even close to coming up inside the knotter. They complete miss it.

Steve

 

[Tx Jim]

sadair
I agree you need to compare the needles before purchasing any but you'll be lucky if needles and frame aren't both bent.

 

[sadair]

Well I definitely have at least one bent needle, not sure about the other one (see image). The frame does not appear bent (see images) but I may have to put the new needle(s) on in order to tell. Still looking for a functional 336 to compare to.

I want to thank everyone for their help. You have been great

 

[spotracing1]

How do u time the baler? Also I just bought one and it baled 104 no prob then all if a sudden the mechanical stop caught it before it got the needles. My first baler with a side flywheel. The fly wheel keeps turning for maybe 3 minutes after I cut the baler off and park the tractor, is this normal for a side flywheel?

 

[jd110]

If the flywheel is free wheeling after pto is shut down, then the flywheel shear pin is sheared. When the mechanical stop catches the plunger arm, it will shear the pin and slip the clutch. Usually the mechanical stop catches the plunger when the needle brake gets loose and allows the needles to drift into the chamber when they are not supposed to be there. many times adjusting the brake tighter prevents this from happening. Do you have the operators manual? The timing procedure is clearly shown in there. If drive chains get too loose it can allow the baler to get out of time and cause shear pin to shear also.

 

[beenthere]

spotracing
:welcome: to TBN

jd110 jarred my memory about a free-wheeling flywheel. Hope you can take his info and solve the timing problem.

I sneeze just thinking about the days I had to tear into the baler to fix something back in the day.. were just converting from wire tie bales (hand tied wires) to twine balers.. a few jd auto wire ties around too, in the 50's

 

[Phillip w]

How do u time the baler? Also I just bought one and it baled 104 no prob then all if a sudden the mechanical stop caught it before it got the needles. My first baler with a side flywheel. The fly wheel keeps turning for maybe 3 minutes after I cut the baler off and park the tractor, is this normal for a side flywheel?

Balers can be both touchy and a pain in the a** all at the same time. I lot of them old square balers you did not want to shut them down during a tying cycle. It would screw you up just as sure as Good made little green apples. Because you where baling without issues, there is a good chance that is what happened. Simply pull all the hay out of the bale chamber. Have someone hold the needles back while you roll it over by hand. This will "reset" everything. Start tractor and baler. Feed a little hay into the baler and then trip the knotters. She should cycle and tie. Now your ready to go. The jd 14t, new Holland 268 and some international balers we're good about screwing up if you shut them down during a tying cycle. A good rule of thumb with balers is if you been baling with little or no trouble, don't panic if you "hit a speed bump". I've seen guys get to turning this and cranking that and pretty soon the baler is "suffering from tinkeritis". If you do try to adjust something, keep track of how much/many turns you turn something so you can always get back to where you started if you need to. Hope this helps.