JD 4052R vs 4066R vs 5065e

[dwhipple99]

Hi Guys, I am getting ready to pull the trigger on a new tractor for maintaining 100 acres in PA. Its about 1/2 open, 1/2 wooded. Plan is to raise some horses and maybe a few cattle. I will use the machine for general purpose tool around the property for grading, material movement, quite a bit of mowing, etc..

I had my heart set on a 4 series but after getting quotes from the JD dealer, I couldn't believe the current pricing.

I asked for quotes on the following:

4052R with Loader, Bucket, and Forks
4066R with Loader, Bucket, and Forks
5065e with Loader, Bucket, and Forks

The 4052 came in at 57K out the door with PA taxes
The 4066 came in at 64K out the door with PA taxes
The 5065 came in at 52K out the door with PA taxes

Clearly the 5 series is allot more machine, and it also seems like the JD guys are pushing me towards that. The discounts offered on the 4 series were < 10% of list which I expected much better. I figured it must be the state of the market.

I hadn't plan to, but now I am going to price Kubota, New Holland, and Massey..

My question is does a 5 series seem like too much machine, will it be too big to be effective for the smaller jobs if I went that way?
Does this pricing align to what others are seeing elsewhere?

Any advice is appreciated

Thanks.

 

[redman135]

The "e" model 5065 is a budget tractor. have a look at the "R" model to see the differences.
Both the 4*** tractors are premium models. Look at the budget 4*** models to compare apples with apples.
Expect "R" models to have better hydraulic pump capacity for a start.
How useable are the gearboxes on the different tractors?
How many scv's,1,2,3 pair?

 

[dwhipple99]

Good points. I should have given a little more detail. The two 4 series include HST transmissions and the 5 series includes a Power Reverser Transmission.

I can easily go either way on the transmission, I am fine with the Power Reverser or the HST.

I think the largest job or implement I plan to run is a large bush hog. I would like to run somewhere between an 8' and a 12' batwing. I believe this would require one remote. I will probably also run a post driver for fencing. So I probably won't need more than 1 remote, maybe 2.

I almost feel like the 5 series would be great to have for some of the bigger jobs, but its to large for that compact tractor around the barnyard.

Do you guys feel they need a larger tractor for the big jobs and a smaller tractor (like 1025R to 3 Series) for smaller jobs?

The other question I have is this seem like accurate decent pricing? As I mentioned, I certainly expected more than 8 or 9% off list, but is the market doing this or do I just have a bad dealer?

 

[jeff9366]

The other question I have is this seem like accurate decent pricing? As I mentioned, I certainly expected more than 8 or 9% off list, but is the market doing this or do I just have a bad dealer?

Its the market. Supply chain problems have limited supply. Compact tractor demand remains robust.


I hadn't plan to, but now I am going to price Kubota, New Holland, and Massey.

You should also shop Kioti, LS and Branson from Korea IF these brands have stable dealers near you. Korean manufacturing labor is paid 50% of what Deere pays its union work force. Japanese manufacturing labor is paid 70% of what Deere pays its union work force. Labor costs strongly influence tractor prices.

Start with the nearest dealer and work out.

Transporting a tractor for service is expensive and inconvenient, whether you trailer it or the dealer trailers it.



I am getting ready to pull the trigger on a new tractor for maintaining 100 acres in PA. Its about 1/2 open, 1/2 wooded. Plan is to raise some horses and maybe a few cattle. I will use the machine for general purpose tool around the property for grading, material movement, quite a bit of mowing, etc..

Fifty acres are open. Will the cattle and horses graze this fifty acres, in which case tractors ability to move 900 pound to 1,600 pound round bales of hay may be your controlling application, or will you have three to four paddocks, raising feed in one paddock, rotating animals periodically?

What is the plan for the open fifty acres?

 

[jeff9366]

Dimensions DEERE 4052R
Wheelbase:	73 inches 185 cm
Length:	130.6 inches 331 cm
Height (ROPS):	100.2 inches 254 cm
Height (cab):	97.4 inches 247 cm
Weight:	3770 lbs 1710 kg
Clearance (front axle):	13.8 inches 35 cm
Front tread:	53.6 inches 136 cm
Rear tread:	59.9 inches 152 cm

Dimensions DEERE 4066R
Wheelbase:	73 inches 185 cm
Length:	130.6 inches 331 cm
Height (ROPS):	100.2 inches 254 cm
Height (cab):	97.4 inches 247 cm
4WD ROPS Weight:	3770 lbs 1710 kg
4WD Cab Weight:	4675 lbs 2120 kg
Clearance (front axle):	13.8 inches 35 cm
Front tread:	53.6 inches 136 cm
Rear tread:	59.9 inches 152 cm

Dimensions DEERE 5065E
Wheelbase:	80.7 inches 204 cm
Length:	137.8 inches 350 cm
Width:	57.3 inches 145 cm (axle flange)
2WD Clearance (front axle):	18.8 inches 47 cm
4WD Clearance (front axle):	13.4 inches 34 cm
Front axle:	Flange

John Deere 5065E Weight
2WD Shipping:	4,634 lbs 2101 kg
4WD Shipping:	5,070 lbs 2299 kg
4WD Operating:	5,500 lbs 2494 kg

I feel like the 5 series would be great to have for some of the bigger jobs, but its too large for that compact tractor around the barnyard.

The three tractors you are researching are very close in physical dimensions, according to TractorData.com. The 5065e is considerably heavier, which is a '+' to me, however the advantages that come with deluxe options on 4052R/4056R are also a '+' to me.

 

[jeff9366]

We buy hay. We need to move bales. Bales can be 800-1200 lbs.


It is understood you need to move bales. Do you need to lift bales in order to stack them two or three bale rows high?


An open station tractor with a bare weight of 3,700 to 4,000 pounds can lift and move 800 - 1,200 pound round bales using a bale spear on the Front End Loader and stack bales two high on level ground if you purchase a FEL with sufficient lift capacity 500mm forward of the pivot pins. However, the tractor will feel very tippy to a neophyte operator lifting bales to stack.

An open station tractor weighing 3,700 to 4,000 pounds can transport 1,200+ pound round bales safely with a Three Point Hitch mounted (rear) bale spear but can only lift bales a few inches. Transport but no stacking. The tractor is stable because the bale weight is low and bale weight is carried on the large, rear tractor tires, which do not pivot/steer.

This is the mid-weight category of compact tractors, a high volume segment. Every tractor manufacturer produces an economy model and a deluxe model in this weight range. Horsepower options range from 40-horsepower to 60-horsepower in this weight range.

A tractor with a bare weight of 3,700 to 4,000 pounds is suitable for actually working 10 to 25 acres of farm acreage. Working acres, not total acres.


For safety most recommend a 5,000 pound bare weight tractor for moving and lifting bales heavier than 1,200 pounds using a bale spear on the Front End Loader and for safely moving/stacking 1,200 pound bales by inexperienced tractor operators using a front bale spear. A 5,000 pound bare weight tractor can stack round bales at least three high.

A tractor with a bare weight of 5,000 pounds is suitable for actually working 20 to 40 acres of farm acreage. Working acres, not total acres.

 

[mx1alex]

If you're not doing any ground engaging work (disc, plow, etc) then I would lean towards a HST for your needs.

If you're looking at Kubota the MX series sounds like it might fit what you're looking for.

Last piece of advice... No matter what you buy, it will shrink when you bring it home and you'll wish you had something bigger.

 

[jyoutz]

Hi Guys, I am getting ready to pull the trigger on a new tractor for maintaining 100 acres in PA. Its about 1/2 open, 1/2 wooded. Plan is to raise some horses and maybe a few cattle. I will use the machine for general purpose tool around the property for grading, material movement, quite a bit of mowing, etc..

I had my heart set on a 4 series but after getting quotes from the JD dealer, I couldn't believe the current pricing.

I asked for quotes on the following:

4052R with Loader, Bucket, and Forks
4066R with Loader, Bucket, and Forks
5065e with Loader, Bucket, and Forks

The 4052 came in at 57K out the door with PA taxes
The 4066 came in at 64K out the door with PA taxes
The 5065 came in at 52K out the door with PA taxes

Clearly the 5 series is allot more machine, and it also seems like the JD guys are pushing me towards that. The discounts offered on the 4 series were < 10% of list which I expected much better. I figured it must be the state of the market.

I hadn't plan to, but now I am going to price Kubota, New Holland, and Massey..

My question is does a 5 series seem like too much machine, will it be too big to be effective for the smaller jobs if I went that way?
Does this pricing align to what others are seeing elsewhere?

Any advice is appreciated

Thanks.

Look at a Kubota MX6000 HST 4x4. $38k with loader

 

[Wobblin-Goblin]

After operating stripped, open station tractors for decades, I finally purchased a cab tractor with a few bells and whistles. I'm happy I made the switch. Life is too short.

 

[jyoutz]

After operating stripped, open station tractors for decades, I finally purchased a cab tractor with a few bells and whistles. I'm happy I made the switch. Life is too short.

Lots of people like them. I’ve never cared for the closed in feeling.

 

[Wobblin-Goblin]

Lots of people like them. I’ve never cared for the closed in feeling.

Winter here lasts four or five months. It gets old being out in the elements while sitting on tractor. I welcome the change.

 

[Milo]

I'm pretty sure the 4000 series are mostly made in the US while the 5000 series are imported from India.

 

[mo1]

Hi Guys, I am getting ready to pull the trigger on a new tractor for maintaining 100 acres in PA. Its about 1/2 open, 1/2 wooded. Plan is to raise some horses and maybe a few cattle. I will use the machine for general purpose tool around the property for grading, material movement, quite a bit of mowing, etc..

I had my heart set on a 4 series but after getting quotes from the JD dealer, I couldn't believe the current pricing.

I asked for quotes on the following:

4052R with Loader, Bucket, and Forks
4066R with Loader, Bucket, and Forks
5065e with Loader, Bucket, and Forks

The 4052 came in at 57K out the door with PA taxes
The 4066 came in at 64K out the door with PA taxes
The 5065 came in at 52K out the door with PA taxes

Clearly the 5 series is allot more machine, and it also seems like the JD guys are pushing me towards that. The discounts offered on the 4 series were < 10% of list which I expected much better. I figured it must be the state of the market.

I hadn't plan to, but now I am going to price Kubota, New Holland, and Massey..

My question is does a 5 series seem like too much machine, will it be too big to be effective for the smaller jobs if I went that way?
Does this pricing align to what others are seeing elsewhere?

Any advice is appreciated

Thanks.

I suspect based on those prices those are cabbed tractors, and in the case of the 5065E, a cabbed MFWD tractor with the PowrReverser transmission? If so, that sounds about ballpark with sales tax added in. If these are open station units, the pricing is very high. I don't know Pennsylvania law but here in Missouri if you are raising cattle, you would qualify for an ag sales tax exemption. 4 series machines are expensive compared to 5Es, this has been true even before the pandemic.

The 5 series is a somewhat larger tractor than the 4 series, it is mainly taller and heavier. In the case of the MFWD units, the planetary axle 5 series units have a noticeably wider turning radius than the bevel gear 4 series units do. (2WD 5Es have about the same turning radius as a 4 series unit.) The 520M loader on a 5E is much stronger and has a lot longer reach than the 440R on the 4 series. You will be able to handle round bales except the heaviest 5x6s or silage bales with a 4 series tractor. However, it will be easier to handle bales with the 5 series tractor, particularly if you have uneven terrain. You can feel you have a good amount of weight on a large frame compact when handling a typical 800-1200 pound dry hay 4x5 or 4x6 round bale, but a full sized utility tractor will pick that up and walk away with it like it picked up a small square bale.

I have a 5075E on 80-some-odd acres where about 65 acres are open. It works very well for me. It works well for running a rotary cutter, maintaining the >500 yard gravel driveway, haying, handling round bales, handling materials (I also have a set of pallet forks), and general utility work. I don't find this too big since I don't try to do something like finish mow with it. I was initially looking at a larger compact, specifically the 4 series Deere, after using a blue tractor of the same size and finding it a whole lot handier than two very similar utility tractors I had run before, an open station MFWD Deere 5410 and its cabbed replacement, a 5083E. I ended up splitting the difference and keeping the size, power, and bale handling capability of the full sized utility tractor but the maneuverability of the compact by getting an open station 2WD unit as it turns almost as sharp as the 4 series does and can fit into tight spaces in buildings jockeying around implements. The dry clutch transmission is easier to feather to creep up on something with pallet forks compared to a wet clutch unit, and with loaded tires and something on the 3 point, the tractor works well picking up anything as heavy as the loader will lift. That is exactly what I was looking for in a tractor and why I decided on this specific configuration. I would have been fine with a cabbed MFWD unit of this size as well but it would have been less "handy" and cost over $20k more.

 

[dwhipple99]

The other question I have is this seem like accurate decent pricing? As I mentioned, I certainly expected more than 8 or 9% off list, but is the market doing this or do I just have a bad dealer?

Its the market. Supply chain problems have limited supply. Compact tractor demand remains robust.


I hadn't plan to, but now I am going to price Kubota, New Holland, and Massey.

You should also shop Kioti, LS and Branson from Korea IF these brands have stable dealers near you. Korean manufacturing labor is paid 50% of what Deere pays its union work force. Japanese manufacturing labor is paid 70% of what Deere pays its union work force. Labor costs strongly influence tractor prices.

Start with the nearest dealer and work out.

Transporting a tractor for service is expensive and inconvenient, whether you trailer it or the dealer trailers it.



I am getting ready to pull the trigger on a new tractor for maintaining 100 acres in PA. Its about 1/2 open, 1/2 wooded. Plan is to raise some horses and maybe a few cattle. I will use the machine for general purpose tool around the property for grading, material movement, quite a bit of mowing, etc..

Fifty acres are open. Will the cattle and horses graze this fifty acres, in which case tractors ability to move 900 pound to 1,600 pound round bales of hay may be your controlling application, or will you have three to four paddocks, raising feed in one paddock, rotating animals periodically?

What is the plan for the open fifty acres?

Thanks for your responses.

The open 50 acres will be either kept in Hay or fenced into pasture for Horses/Cows. I am not sure if I will eventually hay myself. Whether I hay myself or purchase hay, I will be using Round bales, you're correct that may be the controlling application.

So I did get additional pricing today from Kioti (DK and NX), New Holland (Workmaster 55 and Boomer 55) and Kubota (Grand L and MX series)

I would be happy with any of these. I've owned New Holland TC's previously and they were great. However, the Kubota Dealer is by far the closest to me in PA (7 miles). The Kubota Dealer also said they would honor my membership to the NCHA (National Cutting horse association) and give me 20% off list. This makes the Kubota a no brainer for my situation I believe.

My final decision is whether to order an MX6000 or Grand L6060. The Kubota Dealer has told me Kubota has a price increase planned in 2020 and that if I order by EOY, they will be taking orders at current prices. The one thing that might still be an issue is they won't commit to an actual delivery date, but I may be able to deal with this in my situation. I will ask for the right to cancel if they can't deliver within 6 months (or something similar).

So based on these prices, the difference between a John Deere 4052R and Kubota MX6060 is literally $17K for same machine. If I bumped that up to the more correct comparison of a 4066R, its > 20K. I wanted to purchase Deere, but this is ridiculous.. it will be Kubota..

 

[jeff9366]

My final decision is whether to order an MX6000 or Grand L6060.

I am age 74.

If you plan to tractor into old age buy a Kubota Grand L over the equivalent weight MX tractor. I have owned two economy tractors. I occasionally operate Deere economy tractors for my (even) older neighbors. I now own an open station Kubota L3560 Grand L. I am sure the deluxe Grand L features will add at least six years to my tractoring time. WELL WORTH THE MONEY.

If you will be farming for profit on your land you may be sales tax exempt for your tractor.

Discuss sales tax exemption with your dealer.

 

[mo1]

Thanks for your responses.

The open 50 acres will be either kept in Hay or fenced into pasture for Horses/Cows. I am not sure if I will eventually hay myself. Whether I hay myself or purchase hay, I will be using Round bales, you're correct that may be the controlling application.

So I did get additional pricing today from Kioti (DK and NX), New Holland (Workmaster 55 and Boomer 55) and Kubota (Grand L and MX series)

I would be happy with any of these. I've owned New Holland TC's previously and they were great. However, the Kubota Dealer is by far the closest to me in PA (7 miles). The Kubota Dealer also said they would honor my membership to the NCHA (National Cutting horse association) and give me 20% off list. This makes the Kubota a no brainer for my situation I believe.

My final decision is whether to order an MX6000 or Grand L6060. The Kubota Dealer has told me Kubota has a price increase planned in 2020 and that if I order by EOY, they will be taking orders at current prices. The one thing that might still be an issue is they won't commit to an actual delivery date, but I may be able to deal with this in my situation. I will ask for the right to cancel if they can't deliver within 6 months (or something similar).

So based on these prices, the difference between a John Deere 4052R and Kubota MX6060 is literally $17K for same machine. If I bumped that up to the more correct comparison of a 4066R, its > 20K. I wanted to purchase Deere, but this is ridiculous.. it will be Kubota..

The Kubota Grand L is a better direct comparator to a Deere 4R, the MX is a more basic tractor. However, there doesn't really seem to be anything missing in the MX6000 (the gear drive MX5400 is missing synchros on 1st and 2nd though.)

An MX would be fine to handle all but the heaviest round bales but making them with one would be asking a lot. You could probably do it with a Haybine and a 4x4 baler but most anything else would probably give it more than it wants. You would do better with a 75+ HP utility tractor if you ever really intend to make round bales.

 

[dwhipple99]

I suspect based on those prices those are cabbed tractors, and in the case of the 5065E, a cabbed MFWD tractor with the PowrReverser transmission? If so, that sounds about ballpark with sales tax added in. If these are open station units, the pricing is very high. I don't know Pennsylvania law but here in Missouri if you are raising cattle, you would qualify for an ag sales tax exemption. 4 series machines are expensive compared to 5Es, this has been true even before the pandemic.

The 5 series is a somewhat larger tractor than the 4 series, it is mainly taller and heavier. In the case of the MFWD units, the planetary axle 5 series units have a noticeably wider turning radius than the bevel gear 4 series units do. (2WD 5Es have about the same turning radius as a 4 series unit.) The 520M loader on a 5E is much stronger and has a lot longer reach than the 440R on the 4 series. You will be able to handle round bales except the heaviest 5x6s or silage bales with a 4 series tractor. However, it will be easier to handle bales with the 5 series tractor, particularly if you have uneven terrain. You can feel you have a good amount of weight on a large frame compact when handling a typical 800-1200 pound dry hay 4x5 or 4x6 round bale, but a full sized utility tractor will pick that up and walk away with it like it picked up a small square bale.

I have a 5075E on 80-some-odd acres where about 65 acres are open. It works very well for me. It works well for running a rotary cutter, maintaining the >500 yard gravel driveway, haying, handling round bales, handling materials (I also have a set of pallet forks), and general utility work. I don't find this too big since I don't try to do something like finish mow with it. I was initially looking at a larger compact, specifically the 4 series Deere, after using a blue tractor of the same size and finding it a whole lot handier than two very similar utility tractors I had run before, an open station MFWD Deere 5410 and its cabbed replacement, a 5083E. I ended up splitting the difference and keeping the size, power, and bale handling capability of the full sized utility tractor but the maneuverability of the compact by getting an open station 2WD unit as it turns almost as sharp as the 4 series does and can fit into tight spaces in buildings jockeying around implements. The dry clutch transmission is easier to feather to creep up on something with pallet forks compared to a wet clutch unit, and with loaded tires and something on the 3 point, the tractor works well picking up anything as heavy as the loader will lift. That is exactly what I was looking for in a tractor and why I decided on this specific configuration. I would have been fine with a cabbed MFWD unit of this size as well but it would have been less "handy" and cost over $20k more.

I should have told you that you are correct on the models,, pricing and transmissions. The 5065E pricing is a cabbed 4wd tractor with the PowerReverser. The two 4 series are both cabbed tractors.

 

[blockmachining]

If there is a Rural King store within a reasonable distance from you, I’d check them out. The RK55 tractor sounds like a perfect fit and will save you thousands of dollars over the previously mentioned tractors. Even the RK37 will work up to about an eight foot bush hog. The lifting capacity is also greater on the RK37. I was shopping around for a similar size tractor as you and thought I would check them out. After much research and test drives, I have a RK37 cab tractor with hydrostatic drive on order. I added the backhoe and a front grapple. This tractor will work alongside a 75 hp case and a 141 hp Kubota. I will never ever never ever buy another case/new Holland tractor again. It is total junk. Stays broken down more than it is running. There is absolutely no where you can stand around that tractor, including on the roof, that you cannot touch a component that has failed. Junk. Good luck and enjoy your new tractor!

 

[mert1925]

Note the letters E and R in the codes. E denotes economy,R denotes performance.

 

[Bobrown14]

I bought an LS MT352 with cab out of state had it shipped no taxes either. So that paid for an implement and I got a great deal.

The LS isn't a Deer but its as heavy as the 5 series you're looking at for 1/2 the price and all the bells and whistles. It's tight getting in and out but I'm not that big a fella so something to consider.

JD workers were just on strike for a pretty long time I'm guessing that's causing some issue supply. Like anything else low supply high demand you gonna pay more. In the 50k range ouch I'd be looking around. The Kubota and Kioti likely similar in price. Kubota is a premium tractor tho... LS gonna be budget but you get a lot for your money and standard on LS is premium on most other tractors.