jd 4600

[john4nh]

Ok fellas heres a nother one, jd4600 4wd w/ 460 loader hydro transmission and cruise control.. 18995.. I copied the ad, called the dealer he said less then 100 hours and its a 99 model.. What do yall think? He said like new, which I believe that.. Any way going to see in the morning.. Iam at work pretty busy so havent researched it.. Thanks oh yah r-4's

 

[Anonymous Poster]

John4nh,

One thing you may want to check is whether or not it has the "new" style front axle. This has a hydraulic cylinder connected to ONLY the right wheel, which is connected to the left with a simple rod-link. The "old" style has hydraulic piston-rod connection to BOTH wheels.

I know that there were some "scuffing" problems associated with the old style, resulting in dealer-replacement and a change of design.

I am sorry that I am not knowledgeable enough to explain this better ....maybe some other list members can do that for you.

I don't know whether this should influence your decision to purchase ( or whether it may have influenced the previous-owner's decision to sell /w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif ), but you might want to check into it.

Most of what I read on the internet about the problem seemed to center on the 4300/4400 sizes ( I could be remembering this wrong), but I have seen at least one 4700 with the "old" style axle, so would expect that there are some 4600s that have it as well.

I'd mention this to the dealer at least, and ideally, talk to the previous owner to find out why he is letting it go!

Just some thoughts /w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif

Larry

 

[john4nh]

Larry thanks thats pretty much the questions I had in mind.. The scuffing please correct me if iam wrong, but the issue was for tearing up the grass (scuffing) not a mechanical defect. Or was this a mechanical defect that would do damage to the tractor componets? If just the grass I would not worry, but if to the tractor that would have to be fixed.. Ive checked prices on the net the price seems good so far, like getting a free loader instead of buying brand new tractor then loader for 3 to 4 grand more..
Of course I already want the 4 in 1 bucket and t&t which probally put the price back to going all new..Oh well Ill see how it goes tommorow..

 

[Anonymous Poster]

John,

If I tried to comment further on the "scuffing", I'd be talking when I should keep my mouth shut... all I know is that it was enough of a concern to many owners that they went through considerable inconvenience to have it corrected, so wanted to be sure you knew about it.

It seems that you do, so you'll have to decide whether or not it's a concern to you personally.

Best of luck with your deal /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

Larry

 

[cowboydoc]

IF that tractor is what they say it is that is a heck of a buy! I talked to four different dealers and the best I could do on a new 4600 with loader and the power reverser, not HYDRO, was $22,500. Hydro is $1500 or so more. I'd have jumped on that buy in a heartbeat. Besides even if the front end is the wrong one you've still got a year left on the factory warranty to get it fixed. I'd buy it.
Richard

 

[dmccarty]

The older front end caused scuffying on grass. If I remember right, the scuffying was with the tractor in MFWD and making tight turns. It seems like the converstations were from April/May of 2000. I think I saw them here on TBN as well as on www.jplan.com. Hopefully that info will help you find the discussions.

I may have minimized the problem in my own mind, but it was not something I was concerned about when I was buying my tractor since I was not planning on finish mowing with the tractor. Now, I'm thinking about it getting a finish mower when I get the house built. I'm pretty sure I have the new front end on my 4700 and I sure don't see scuffying when running in MFWD and doing tight turns.

Hope this helps...
Dan McCarty

 

[john4nh]

just an update went to look at 4600 but it was all locked up..I live about 40 miles away. Anyway call dealer today and supposed to try again, will meet me at anytime day or nite ( thought that was good) Any way got price (rough) on a 5105 4wd with loder for 21291 and also a 4700 4wd power reverser or shuttle shift whatever you call it, and loader for 22935 thats without rebates and this 4700 is on the lot..Well just thought id post the prices to help anyone and remind me where Iam at on them.. That old 920 kinda looks good now though..HA!HA!!

Hey Dan if I remember from one of your earlier post you didnt go with the 5000 series because the price of the hoe? was that your only reason? I really like the 5105 vs the 4700 but just because the power, I like everything else on the 4700.. I will still consider the 4600 but if I can stay within 2 or so grand I would rather not have the hydro..I know they are nice but I like to shift.

 

[dmccarty]

John,

Your prices look pretty good. Less than mine but my cost included the Power Beyond Valve for the backhoe, the Third SCV, and a 4n1 bucket. Its real hard/frustrating trying to compare prices on this stuff.....

I really wanted the 5n05s BUT the numbers I had on the FELs showed that the 4700 had more lift capacity by a 200-300 pounds. It looks like JD "dumbed down" the the FEL on the 5n05s to move people up to the 5n10s or down to the 4000s. Check the numbers in the FEL brochures to make sure I'm right. The other reason for my move to the 4700 was the cost of the back hoe. The back hoe for the 5000s listed for over 11,000 dollars! OUCH! The 4700 backhoe was about $7,000. My origional plan was to hold off buying the backhoe but I decided the weekend before signing to get the JD48. I'm VERY glad I did. I wish it was physically a bit larger and a little more powerful, ala a JD49, which does not exist. But most people are not digging up 36 inch stumps. Its doing the job but a slightly bigger unit would do the work faster.

The 5n05 have good HP vs the 4700 but they also have more capacity on the 3PH and they weigh a good bit more which should help with traction. I certainly have enough HP but I don't have enough traction.

I stayed away from HST for four reasons, added complextiy, more money, HP robber, and I'm used to driving a manual tranny vehicle already. The later was the most important reason for safety sake. My left leg is already "trained" to use a clutch. There is to much muscle memory in that leg to change things! I know I would have a problem driving my truck and the tractor if they operated differently.

With the PowerReverser tranny to go forward you throw the lever on the left side of the tractor up/forward. The lever is place where a turn signal indicator would be in an auto. The PowerReverser lever in the middle position is neutral and back to the operator is reverse. If moving forward and wanted to go in reverse you can to one of two things. Put the lever in neutral or clutch the tractor. Once it stops, put the lever in reverse and off you go. Very simple. But see my early comments about muscle memory. With the PowerReverser you don't need to clutch. I clutch all the time when I want to stop/slow down. Just to many years of habit. And in an emergency situation you are going to go with the training/muscle memory. Been There Done That on the tractor. I hit the cluch and not the PowerReverser lever.

Now, the problem I have with the PowerReverser is that dang lever. Since it is like the turn signal lever I find myself getting ready to back up the truck and reaching PowerReverse and turning on a lane change light!

Hope this helps....
Dan McCarty

 

[john4nh]

THANKS DAN GOING TO LOOK NOW

 

[john4nh]

Well made it back finally, the weather is not cooperating much..

Well the hydro is pretty smooth but hard (muscle memory as Dan says) The price and the 80hrs is a big pusher to go that way..Its cleaner then the dealer said, looks absoultely new.. It has the third scv and canopy of course r-4's and hydro. Iam not to sure about the front axle but it has a year left on warranty so I could get fixed/replaced if old style. Ran the 4700 w/12x12 rev. was great really liked it and the compact feel vs the 5105. Although the 5105 was great but not sure I like the trans for loader work.. Got alot to chew on, and to top it off going new would allow for 6.9% on the 4xxseries..

 

[dmccarty]

Was that 6.9% financing? How many months? I'm curious about the new financing since I was at the end of a financing period and had to make a decision to wait for the new programs which might go up or down. Maybe I don't wanna know!

"Got alot to chew on,..." Ain't buying tractors fun?

It really is a tough decision. And its only worse if you consider Blue or Orange!

Good Luck!
Dan McCarty

 

[john4nh]

The 6.9 was for up to 60 months then you could go longer for slightly higher % of course. Yes Iam really leaning towards the 4700 just cause of creature comforts but the 5105 in 4wd is no slouch.. I like the hydro but do not believe it's for me, even though the money is right on it.
Dan are you thinking of selling yours?

 

[dmccarty]

Thanks for the info John.

My rate was in the 8-9% range for 84 months or something like that. Its amazing that I spent all that time analyzing every cent and not even three months later I can't remember the rate! Maturity Moment I guess....

Speaking of financing. One of my plans is to eventually get a home equity loan to take over the loan from JD. It looks like I can write off the interest payments and more importantly the payments are less. Its also a bit easier to pay off. The origional plan was to get into the new house in 2000 and then get the equity loan after all the construction loan was rolled into a normal mortgage. But that did not happen.

We ended up getting the JD insurance as well which is only available with a JD loan. Or at least that is what I was told. I read my insurance policy and you could interpret the verbage to either cover the tractor or not. I read it that it did not cover the tractor. I asked the company and got different answers at different times. So I went with JD for piece of mine. This dang tractor is the most expensive thing I have ever bought besides a house and land. I want it covered.

But I made the right decision to buy when we did. I have gotten 25 days on the tractor since the end of October and gotten more work done than I could have dreamed possible...

So, no I'm not selling my tractor! You can't have mine! I still have to much work to do and heck its only got 120 hours on the it, the break in's not done yet!

Later...
Dan McCarty

 

[roysallis]

Dan,
What did you find out about the JD insurance coverage on your tractor?

 

[Anonymous Poster]

John,
Are they offering the 6.9% on the 5105? I have the 5205 version w/loader. I understand you can have the dealer adjust the injection pump and bring it up to a real 48 PTO HP (even beyond!). The 5105 is identical to the 5205 set up for 40 vs 48 hp (pto).

If the price you mentioned is for new, then it's great... you can never have enough horsepower or traction.... Actually that engine tweaked will do 53 PTO HP and run all day long!

The 521 loader will lift 2100 lbs vs the 460 loader @ 1700 lbs. The 4000 series catalog shows a "higher" lift capacity, but it's a misprint. Also on the 521 loader, you can change the position of the lift cylinders to increase lift to 2500 lbs and change the maximum lift ht (though not recommended for the 5n05 series... safety issue?)

I really love the shuttle shift on the 5n05 series, very nice and fast for loader work or quick forward and reverse motions. With 17.4 gpm hydraulic flow rate, the loader is FAST! FAST UP, FAST Dump,,, Did I mention the loader was F-a-s-t!

I plow a mall parking lot with my unit, put the loader bucket in "float" position, have a 8' Heavy duty rear blade (also in float position) and move literally ton's of snow fast. Did I mention FAST... Ooops getting carried away again... The MFWD could climb up a wall (if gravity wouldn't tip it over)

For only a couple thousand difference, I think it's a no brainer for the 5n05 unit. That tractor is a real sleeper and bargain for that price.

Good luck John!

 

[Anonymous Poster]

JMIII,

Would you tell us the basis for this "misprint" claim?

<<<The 521 loader will lift 2100 lbs vs the 460 loader @ 1700 lbs. The 4000 series catalog shows a "higher" lift capacity, but it's a misprint.>>>

Thanks,
Larry

 

[john4nh]

I asked about the loader ability since Dan had brought it up. Otherwise I would assume the 5105 would lift more. Here is what I was told true or not, I dont know. The dealer said the 5105 has the same loader as the (5210) and it will lift more then it is listed as doing. Reason being the front end on the 2wd 5105 is (lighter) then the 5210 so he said John Deere lowered the rating a bit. It sounded good to me, but Iam sure if it will pick it up and the back tires dont come off the ground most of us wont be weighing what were lifting. (At least I was thinking that cause I dont do it now) Any how I welcome anyone to shoot holes in that if that assement from the dealer is wrong.. I wont let this particular issue stop me either way.. Iam more concerned with getting the right tranny..

The interest on the 5000's was a bit higher but not to bad, depending on how you look at it. So you do not have a problem shifting from forward to reverse? I just didnt like having to completely let go of the wheel to shift..I know it would be do able but just curious. This is the only reson Iam leaning the 4700 way is for the power reverser..

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Larry,
Both John Deere corporate and two dealers I had talked with, and other JD literature shows the 460 loader lift capacity rated @ 1705 lb. (775kg.). Also you can physically see the hydraulic cylinders are much smaller in size than the 521 series. The weight of the 460 loader subsystem is only 890 lbs against the 521 loader of about 14xx lbs.

I think it's a "don't ask, don't tell" thing.

I believe Dan has the 460 loader, maybe he can look in his 460 loader operator's manual in the back and see the charts with the ratings listed.

John III

 

[Anonymous Poster]

John,

Either the PowrReverser or the SyncReverser transmission, you shift with your left hand...

The SyncReverser is "synchronized" in Forward & Reverse, as you're rolling in either direction, you push the clutch in and shift the lever in the opposite direction (shuddle). Very smooth, very quick, no grinding of gears, no damage. You develop a rhythm after a short time of using it.

Now the PowrReverser is the same except no "clutching" is required and even smoother... You do reach up at the dash to shift with PowerReverser vs. using the range shift lever located on your left side of the seat. The PowrReverser is certainly the ultimate for transmissions.(By the way, the 5000 Ten series offers the PowerReverser for about $2500 more)

You have to decide how much "tractor" you want... and what you main uses will be...
The 4700 is classified as a "compact". The 5n05 series is classified as a "utility". The 5n05 series is about 1000 lbs. more in total weight, then add another 1500 lbs. for the loader and put something on the rear for a counter balance ~ 800 lbs, you now have about 6800 lbs.

By the way John, what exactly are you going to use the new machine for? I noticed on other posts, you already have some JD compacts. When do you expect to make your purchase?

 

[Anonymous Poster]

JohnIII,

I also have a 460 loader.
From the 460 Loader "Operators Manual", p.70-5:

Lift capacity - to max ht. at the pivot pin (the way most mfgrs. specs are given) = 2325 lbs.

- to max ht. "V" (at the front edge of the bucket,...as if you had chain-hooks welded at that point) = 1705 lbs.

- to 59 inches (at the pivot pin) = 2988 lbs.

- to 59 inches "X" (front edge of bucket) = 2383 lbs.

- etc., etc.

Pretty complete and detailed for a "misprint" don't you think /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif?

(I believe the confusion comes from mixing up the first 2 specs!)
(I have seen both figures shown in sales-brochures... my money's on the "Operator's Manual" - literally/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif ! )

Larry