JD Right to Repair

[ovrszd]

I see this affecting the smaller family farms more than larger family or corporate farms since larger farms tend to lease equipment vs smaller farms owning equipment. Most leases I have been exposed to have some language about service and maintenance so they get priority on service while small guys sit and wait or keep running older equipment that is getting more and more wore out.

Yes technology is great when it works but the tough question to answer is what is return on investment for smaller farms that may only plant a few hundred acres vs a few thousand.

Smaller farms that may only plant a few hundred acres are almost extinct here. If you aren't farming at least a thousand it's impossible to afford the equipment required to farm. Not saying there aren't farms operating with older equipment. Just saying the "small" farm is almost gone.

 

[ovrszd]

I think Deere (and others) took the wrong path, with trying to maintain a monopoly on repair diagnostics, but I believe this whole right to repair thing will ultimately be resolved in the consumer's favor. Farmers racking up sufficient hours on large equipment are getting screwed right now,

The large farmers I talk to don't talk of being screwed. As often, in many things, the medium sized operation takes a hit. They can't afford the new stuff under warranty. They actually buy the equipment that the larger farmer sells off. So they find themselves caught in the swirl. The problems are fixed by the time the small low buck farmer gets the piece of equipment.

Large farmer friend of mine wants an autonomous Grain Cart. The company that's trying to produce them has been denied access to JD's guidance system. Without that connection the cart can't function in a field full of JD equipment. There's litigation being discussed to come to common terms for access. I understand the cart manufacturer's position. I understand JD's position.

 

[WinterDeere]

The large farmers I talk to don't talk of being screwed.

Of course you're right. This is the problem with vague terms like "large", I was speaking of what you are calling "medium sized operation", and ignoring the true corporate-scale operations.

 

[ovrszd]

Of course you're right. This is the problem with vague terms like "large", I was speaking of what you are calling "medium sized operation", and ignoring the true corporate-scale operations.

Here farms are a mixed bag. By number most are row crop and cattle farmers. When they get bigger they tend to specialize. I doubt if there's one farmer here that row crops 5,000 acres plus having a cattle herd. So, to categorize, I'd consider a 5,000 acre row crop farmer as large.

Yeah, "corporate scale" is another one. All farmers here beyond hobby farmers are at least an LLC.

 

[CobyRupert]

I see both sides of this discussion.

Second, opposition to JDs side. The problem that arises when access to the technology is needed. To give the owner complete access to the technology for repair purposes opens the door to their data secrets. To give the owner the ability to reset codes for example also gives the owner the ability to be deceptive in warranty debates. For example, engine overheated because of no cooling system maintenance. Machine repeatedly coded. Owner got access to the JD Link and deleted all of the codes. Then claimed it never notified him. Or,,, owner wants/needs a bit more HP. Access to JDs system allows him to "tweak" the fuel system to gain that power. After all, he's the owner and should be able to do that. Fine and dandy until something goes wrong.

There are things about the technology that is aggravating. But the gain far outweighs those things.

You repeatedly used the phrase “To give the owner…”
Your definition of “owner” is different than mine.
I guess that’s the crux of the argument.

 

[bearthebruce]

They could have both, protect their IP while providing diagnostic tools allowing 3rd party to repair. Maybe they're already headed that way, I haven't been following the latest news. This would be substantially more expensive, but it is already done in other industries.

You are spot on. The technology exists to make a tool that will work in the field and yet report all the work through the dealer network whether or not the dealer is doing the work.

I work for a diagnostic tool manufacturer who makes a tool for the auto aftermarket. Each year the OE brand we support takes steps to take away the aftermarket's ability to repair. Their reason? They claim safety and emissions. Those are big buttons in the auto world.

The OE has to offer their software and their connection to an end user of the vehicle. They do this with online software running through a standard interface device that is compatible to all manufactures. A solution like this ffor the tractor community would be the best solution.

The end user has to buy access to use the software. It is not unreasonably priced for a aftermarket repair shop. By using the OE software through this device, the OE knows what has been done. The user can even buy online support from some OEs.

The only hitch I see here is the "in the field" failure. Someone might have to come up with a device that would work over the cell network. To the best of my knowledge the interface devices do not work that way at present but its only a matter of time before they work with cell offered internet connection.

 

[WinterDeere]

You are spot on. The technology exists to make a tool that will work in the field and yet report all the work through the dealer network whether or not the dealer is doing the work.

I work for a diagnostic tool manufacturer who makes a tool for the auto aftermarket. Each year the OE brand we support takes steps to take away the aftermarket's ability to repair. Their reason? They claim safety and emissions. Those are big buttons in the auto world.

The OE has to offer their software and their connection to an end user of the vehicle. They do this with online software running through a standard interface device that is compatible to all manufactures. A solution like this ffor the tractor community would be the best solution.

The end user has to buy access to use the software. It is not unreasonably priced for a aftermarket repair shop. By using the OE software through this device, the OE knows what has been done. The user can even buy online support from some OEs.

The only hitch I see here is the "in the field" failure. Someone might have to come up with a device that would work over the cell network. To the best of my knowledge the interface devices do not work that way at present but its only a matter of time before they work with cell offered internet connection.

Excellent post. It's good to have the perspective of someone with actual industry experience with similar tools, even if not directly in the tractor industry.

WRT your last statement, most cell phones today work as an internet hot spot today. So for true "in the field" failures, any device that works on WiFi can hop thru your cell phone for internet access. If diag device is Ethernet only, then just rent/buy a cheap internet hot spot device from RedPocket or Mint Mobile, or insert WiFi adapter between diag tool and cell phone.

When I watched my first documentary on the right to repair debate several years ago, one of the interviewees was a farmer who had to pay many thousands of dollars to transport a combine to his dealer, just to read the error codes off the machine. The repair ended up being a very minor thing, almost nothing in comparison to the cost of transport. These are the guys of which I was thinking in my earlier post.

 

[beenthere]

Watched a video recently of a farmer whose JD re-man engine with 300 hours blew a rod. Middle of a road, but contacted their JD dealer who could read the codes and instruct what was happening just before and after the failure. Obviously were "in touch" with the engine as well as the farmer.

This is the video.

This farmer and employees do much of their own repair but cooperate well with their JD dealer too. I very much enjoy watching his videos because he doesn't incorporate the nauseating drama. Just takes you along with the everyday farming, fixing, and fabricating on a big dairy farm.

 

[hiddentacocatneddih]

Open source or gtfo

Electrical engineer and programmer

 

[ovrszd]

You repeatedly used the phrase “To give the owner…”
Your definition of “owner” is different than mine.
I guess that’s the crux of the argument.

Okay Coby, elaborate.