JD4720 vs.Kubota M5040 vs. NH TC55DA

[Roto]

My buddy doesnt have the cx loader and i dont even have my tractor yet. Hopefully someone here will have the cx loader and try to lift 2600#'s at 5 feet high and i say it wont do it. No way no how. Im saying several hundred pounds less for sure.

Mike

 

[Z-Michigan]

I'm just now trying to figure out which way to ballast the rear, fill the tires, ballast box, or wheel weights.

There are two ongoing threads in the JD forums on ballast. Opinions vary, of course. If you want to use FEL without anything on the 3ph, loading the tires is probably the best and possibly only way to go. However, if you're ok with keeping something on the 3ph when doing loader work, I would suggest a large ballast box or a super heavy duty box blade (1000lbs+) as ballast.

I have filled tires on my 5105. I have enough ballast for my FEL capacity, no problem (note that I have 16.9x28 R1 rears, so filling with rimguard adds a whopping 1500lbs). But if I were going to do it again, I would probably get two wheel weights per side, a ballast box or heavy box blade, and leave just air in the tires. If you do get filled, I would recommend rimguard over calcium chloride or windshield washer fluid. Totally nontoxic and noncorrosive, and nearly as heavy as chloride.

 

[Tact]

There are two ongoing threads in the JD forums on ballast. Opinions vary, of course. If you want to use FEL without anything on the 3ph, loading the tires is probably the best and possibly only way to go. However, if you're ok with keeping something on the 3ph when doing loader work, I would suggest a large ballast box or a super heavy duty box blade (1000lbs+) as ballast.

I have filled tires on my 5105. I have enough ballast for my FEL capacity, no problem (note that I have 16.9x28 R1 rears, so filling with rimguard adds a whopping 1500lbs). But if I were going to do it again, I would probably get two wheel weights per side, a ballast box or heavy box blade, and leave just air in the tires. If you do get filled, I would recommend rimguard over calcium chloride or windshield washer fluid. Totally nontoxic and noncorrosive, and nearly as heavy as chloride.

What about methanol, or is that the same as calcium?
My local Co-op will fill the tires with methanol and water for $45 per tire, and fix a flat for $56.

 

[Roto]

Just happened to come across this cut and paste from JD website. The math says it must be lower at bucket center then at pins.
------------------------------------------------------------------
Lift capacities are reduced when using attachments due to the load being further from center and the added weight of the attachment.

Actual lift capacity
Determine "actual" lift capacity by deducting (adding) weight based on the setup. Initial specifications are calculated with a standard

bucket. Determine the weight difference between the standard bucket and the bucket. Depending on actual attachment used, you can

also determine the difference between the, forklift and frame, bale spear and frame, grapple and frame, or telescoping boom and frame.



How to determine distance
Determine the distance between the Boom Pivot Point to Bucket Pivot Point 800mm (31.5 inch) forward or Bucket Pivot Point. Measure

and record the distance from the boom pivot point on the mast to 800 mm (31.5 inch) forward of the bucket pivot point (ASAE S301.3) or

the distance from the boom pivot point on the mast to the bucket pivot point (ASAE S301.2).

Measure
Measure the distance to the center of the load being carried. Measure and record the distance from the bucket pivot pin 800mm (31.5

inch) forward to the center of the load or from the bucket pivot pin. This could be the middle of the bale, middle of the forklift, or end of

the telescoping boom.

Divide
Divide the number from Step 5 by Step 4 to get a percentage figure.

Multiply
Multiply the number from Step 6 to the number determined in Step 3. Actual lift capacity as calculated by adding (or subtracting) the

attachment weight and reducing the lift capacity by the percentage that the weight is forward of the "standard" measuring point.


Affected Equipment All loaders

 

[Z-Michigan]

What about methanol, or is that the same as calcium?
My local Co-op will fill the tires with methanol and water for $45 per tire, and fix a flat for $56.

Those prices sound really cheap.

Methanol is probably the same thing as "windshield washer fluid." It is totally different from calcium chloride, which is a salt that's otherwise most commonly used for snow melting. CaCl makes about the heaviest liquid you can put in a tire, maximizing weight. It's also corrosive though.

Rimguard is a newer product made from sugar beet pulp. It has no drawbacks except cost (which is a bit more but really not that high) and is nearly as heavy as CaCl.

Based on price and being in TN, the methanol quote is probably your most cost-effective option. Check how much weight that will add though - it won't be as much as CaCl or rimguard, and with the 400CX you'll probably want to have some additional weight on the 3ph - you just won't need nearly as much.

 

[Tact]

Those prices sound really cheap.

Methanol is probably the same thing as "windshield washer fluid." It is totally different from calcium chloride, which is a salt that's otherwise most commonly used for snow melting. CaCl makes about the heaviest liquid you can put in a tire, maximizing weight. It's also corrosive though.

Rimguard is a newer product made from sugar beet pulp. It has no drawbacks except cost (which is a bit more but really not that high) and is nearly as heavy as CaCl.

Based on price and being in TN, the methanol quote is probably your most cost-effective option. Check how much weight that will add though - it won't be as much as CaCl or rimguard, and with the 400CX you'll probably want to have some additional weight on the 3ph - you just won't need nearly as much.

I'm trying to compare the cost of wheel weights from JD which is about $130 per 100# weight. If I added three weights per wheel that's $780 plus attaching hardware, $100, totalling $880.AAAHHHHH. I can fill a lot of tire for that amount.
Compared to the wheel weights I could just keep a heavy box blade on the 3ph for just about the same weight.

 

[Superduper]

Why not look at the manual for the 400cx and see what the manufacturer recommends? You'll be suprised what the manufacturer requires as ballast to safely lift the stated capacity. For the 300cx on a 3x20 tractor, the manufacturer recommends filling rear tires, 3 weights per side (@55lbs each) AND 1100 lbs on the 3ph. For your 4x20 series tractor, while you could get by with just some of the requirements, you'll definitely want to load up as recommended per manufacturer specs if you plan of lifting the stated capacities. Of course if you aren't using to capacity, you can get by with less. Unless I recall incorrectly, JD tractors of the same size/frame compared to the Kubotas usually tip the scales higher. If you were going Kubota, even if the lift capacity was the same, I would recommend even greater ballasting to feel the same stability.

 

[Z-Michigan]

I'm trying to compare the cost of wheel weights from JD which is about $130 per 100# weight. If I added three weights per wheel that's $780 plus attaching hardware, $100, totalling $880.AAAHHHHH. I can fill a lot of tire for that amount.
Compared to the wheel weights I could just keep a heavy box blade on the 3ph for just about the same weight.

For initial cost the filled tires are going to be a lot cheaper. Wheel weights can also be a pain in the ..., or so I'm told, and unless you add tons of them (like 5 or 6 per side) you won't get the same weight as filling the tires. Why you might want them anyway - they don't leak and don't have to be changed or replaced if a tire gets a flat or wears out. I think the majority of people go with liquid fill. For comparison, rimguard in those tires would probably be around $250 with labor. I don't think I could turn down the quoted price on methanol in your situation.

I agree with superduper, see what the manual says about ballasting. You may find that you need filled tires AND something really heavy on the 3ph. The rated lift on the 400CX is awfully high in comparison to the size, weight, and wheelbase of a 4520 tractor, all of which point to a big ballast requirement to use full FEL capacity. I wouldn't be surprised it the 400CX lift capacity was established with the idea that most users would have a backhoe on the rear end.

Be sure to read the painfully long thread in the JD buying forum titled "4320 - do I load the tires or not" before you decide.

 

[Tact]

Be sure to read the painfully long thread in the JD buying forum titled "4320 - do I load the tires or not" before you decide.

Yeh, I've read it and that's why I'm even more confussed.

 

[art]

Yeh, I've read it and that's why I'm even more confussed.

Nothing confusing about it. You add the solid ballast to your work level, you don't carry unneeded weight if you don't have to. Your fuel tank stays full longer, your tractor is under less stress from carrying less weight. When you don't put the weight in the tires it utilizes less power to turn and you actually gain traction. I like to start out with three sets of rear wheel weights and if needed then go to the three point hitch ballast which is really good for the tractor as it uses the rear axle as a pivot point to remove the weight from the front axle so yo have less stress on it carrying heavy loads.