Jerky project cylinder action

[yarg]

The force is ample to lift the mast and then some.
At this time, I am going to check if I have the load check valve in my contol valve.
I am going to purge air from the ram.
I am going to see if I can get the lower pressure relief cart rage so I do not stall my engine with the high back pressures when not at full throttle.
A restrictor on the outlet of the ram may slow this harmonic to a good rate?

Any additions to this plan?

 

[yarg]

The valve is a 25 gpm and the pump is able to do 18 to 20 gpm at3000 rpm.
I have only run it at about 2400 to date and the psi relief on the valve at 1500 against the restriction of the ram causes a stall. I was thinking of a new low pressure cart in the valve to drop the stall chance if I do not get a new valve?
Gray

 

[J_J]

Where do you think you have high back pressure?

The only time the cyl or motors are developing full presure is when the motors are working very hard.

If you were to install a hyd gage n the IN port of the first valve, you can see the exact pressure that the hyd system is developing.

Hyd test set. Cost about $30

You can determine at what pressure will stall the engine.

You probably need to run that engine at max or get a larger engine.

How deep can you drill given the torque on the hyd motors?

Are you drilling while trying to raise the boom?

 

[yarg]

Just thought of an experiment to try?
I could run the head rotation and trigger the mast valve to see if this artificially lowers pressure and flow to see if the ram behaves?

 

[yarg]

Just got your post and will examine it for ideas. Then respond.
Thanks again for your help

 

[J_J]

Each component will develop it's own pressure.

You can limit the relief pressure on the last valve, which is the cyl valve, and that will limit the load you can raise.

What is the pressure rating on the hyd motors, and what configuration are you using. Series or parrallel.

 

[yarg]

JJ,
The motors are rated at 1500 psi.
The valves are in series with the motor contol valves with a power beyond to the ram valve.
I have not tried running the motor then trying the ram at the same time?

 

[yarg]

I have a gauge at the pump but not able to read it while alone.
The motor is rated to a 300 ft. If at full load but I do not expect more than 150'.
No try with both motor and ram at the same time yet.
My thought was that the cylinder size and shock along with all unused flow having to go through the relief valve causes the engine stall? Like when valved only into the ram, it takes almost nothing so the rest of the flow gies to the relief valve at 1500 psi so I have instant 1500 psi braking pressure?
Gray

 

[J_J]

Do you have the two spool valve set at about 1450 psi?

Now by doing that, the next valve is limited to 1450 psi, so it should be set the same, and that will limit the max load.

Do you have to hold the spool lever for the hyd motor, or is there a detent.

There are spool valve made specifically for hyd motors. There are also solenoid valves for hyd motors.

If the valves are in series, and you are using the hyd motors at half lever, then you still have half flow for the ram. Even that may be to much for steady and smooth operation.

Try this using the ram. Use a little bit of lever to allow a small amount of fluid for the ram. The fluid not used is passed on to the tank.

 

[yarg]

I have them both set at the lowest psi,,,,1500.
Yes, one will override the other if the valve is on but if off the power beyond should allow full flow and pressure to the second valve?

I am not sure right now as I am in a meeting. I may have a load control in my valve as it will hold the mast at any angle if running or not. Does this mean I have a load control?

 

[yarg]

My motor valve has to be held on for safety.
I did not get a motor valve as I wanted the shaft locked when the valve is in middle position for pipe changing.

 

[JohninCT]

I have a gauge at the pump but not able to read it while alone.
The motor is rated to a 300 ft. If at full load but I do not expect more than 150'.
No try with both motor and ram at the same time yet.
My thought was that the cylinder size and shock along with all unused flow having to go through the relief valve causes the engine stall? Like when valved only into the ram, it takes almost nothing so the rest of the flow gies to the relief valve at 1500 psi so I have instant 1500 psi braking pressure?
Gray

I'm confused. Why is your relief valve operating? Isn't your system/valves open center in which unused flow just goes back to the tank?

 

[J_J]

No load control on that log splitter valve.

How did you come to use the log splitter valve.

You do know , in the log splitter valve reverse mode, there is a separate relief setting to kick the lever to neutral , and is adjustable.

Is the cyl on the boom pushing or pulling the load.

What you have is a spool that will block fluid flow in neutral , keeping the cyl at whatever angle you left it.

The first valve in the hyd system will set the main relief pressure.

 

[yarg]

Each answer generates more thoughts and questions.
The valve has a return decent set for 1000. I have it set to limit the mast up position and not have force where it is not needed.
The ram has to lift in both directions due to the offset geometry of the hinge pin location. As the mast folds back it moves away from the bore hole allowing you to keep the rig in place while working on the well and not to have any reset needed for further well work.

 

[J_J]

How about some pictures of the boom and mast?

 

[wdchyd]

Another quick thought with a suspended load you may have to put a restictor [flow control] in the down side of a circuit. Restrict the flow of oil leaving the cylinder so it will not cavitate. Do not restrict both side of the cylinder you will just make the cavitation worse. CJ

I think what you are saying is the same as an over-running load.....yes, a restrictor (flow control) in a meter-out position would work

maybe a counterbalance valve plumbed and tweeked in to the bottom of cyl would help too with the suspended (over-running) load

 

[CJONE]

I think what you are saying is the same as an over-running load.....yes, a restrictor (flow control) in a meter-out position would work

maybe a counterbalance valve plumbed and tweeked in to the bottom of cyl would help too with the suspended (over-running) load

Yes correct, I have not had great sucess with counterbalance valves. A lot of chattering when cold. The adjustable flow control has been the best for me in this case. We also build a "fuse" wich is just a orfice to control cyls in case of a line failure. CJ

 

[yarg]

They are open center but as soon as they are triggered in either direction 99.9% of the flow does not go to the ram, it goes to the relief valve and the system pressure gies to that setting, 1500 psi, then to the tank. Or us my understanding wrong?

 

[yarg]

Just ordered a cartridge for 500-1500 relief and will set it to just enough to lift the mast. The 500-600 psi setting should not stall the engine when all fluid is forced to go through the relief?
A needle valve on the lower and larger end of the ram should allow a slow fill setting on the ram and make it far less jerky. Finally I will bleed the ram of any air to stop any bounce in the mast?
Will my plan work?..??
Thanks so much for all your input and feel free to correct my approach if you see any issues.
Gray

 

[yarg]

Gentalmen,

I just got home and have taken a few pics for you all to examine this project.
One will show the drill end with the mast up and head about middle.
One has the unit folded down but you can see the hinge point is back from the rear of the machine and maybe you can spot the ram location and understand the it is a short pivot and requires power up and down due to the pivot geometry. This allows a worker to keep the unit set in place and tilt the mast and head away for well work and still not lose the allignment.

Hope these help the final fix?

Gray
Opps, I included the pic that shows how I worked on it in my garage that was 8 inches short rather than be outside in 10 below for weeks)))))) Simple cieling patch!