JIC vs. SAE substitution

[picker77]

Having trouble locating a particular fitting I need a couple of... namely, straight male to female SAE -6 (ORB) swivel adapters. Lots of SAE swivel elbows, swivel 45's, and non-swivel SAE straights around, however a simple straight M-F swivel has proven hard to find. Why, I don't know. I've tried Surplus Center and Discount Hyd Hose with no luck so far.

Since JIC and SAE are both 9/16-18 thread with no taper, can I substitute a JIC Male to Female swivel adapter if I can find a couple of those?

I believe JIC and SAE with the same dash number will mate up thread wise, but I am concerned about getting a good seal. However, I do have plenty of teflon paste and tape on hand. :laughing:

 

[wdchyd]

Sounds like an odd duck to me....you don't usually see these.....(#6-ORB Female)....if no luck, buy individual fittings and have someone TIG weld them up.....

 

[Gary Sweat]

Baileynet.com may have what you are looking for. They have the SAE-6 male to swivel female straight in both NPT and JIC swivels.

 

[picker77]

By Golly, Gary... I think you nailed it. I believe I can make that Male ORB to Female JIC work, if I can just get a leak proof fit between the male ORB and the female JIC side of that swivel. Teflon tape to the rescue! It's certainly worth a try, ordering some right now. Don't know why I didn't check Bailey, but I checked many other places. Thanks!!

 

[Buba81]

As long as your male jic has a shoulder put a oring on it and it will seal just the same as your male sae. as far as the female sae most are cut so that male jic will seat and as long as you can find a female jic that is solid then a male sae will seal. I work in a hydraulic hose shop and I do this all the time

 

[oldnslo]

Since I was unclear which fitting you are trying to join I have a dumb question.

Are you trying to seal and ORB male end into a JIC 37 degree female? If the answer is yes this will not work.

If you want to interchange JIC male with SAE ORB male then just add an O-ring to the JIC fitting and they will interchange. O-ring size is a 2-906

Two Notes of caution:
1) Make sure the hex size is at least 11/16 on the JIC fitting or the O-ring will extrude.
2) Make sure the SAE ORB port is deep enough to accept the flared nose of the JIC fitting.

Roy

 

[wdchyd]

Having trouble locating a particular fitting I need a couple of... namely, straight male to female SAE -6 (ORB) swivel adapters. L

Sorry, Did I understand this wrong or did you describe it wrong....?...:ashamed:

 

[picker77]

I'm probably confusing everybody, with me first in line, LOL.

Since a picture even crudely drawn is worth 1000 words:

1. All DPOCV ports are 3/8 BSPP.
2. Wanted BSPP to SAE 6 swivel elbows, no such animal. The only BSPP to SAE elbows I could get are "rigid adjustable" (has an "adjustable" nut on the SAE side which is not shown on my crude drawing).
3. Because the elbows are rigid, in order to assemble this obviously the elbows must be taped and screwed into the DPOCV until the length between the cylinder side of the elbows exactly matches the distance between the SAE 6 ports on the cylinder, and then install a swivel connector to make the hookup to the cylinder ports. So I have been looking for a SAE 6 female to SAE 6 male swivel adapter. None found.
4. Plan B is to try instead a 3/8 JIC female to SAE 6 (orb) male swivel adapter.

Longer cylinders with more working room between ports make this easy by using tubing and flare fittings. When there's no room for that, it has be all fittings. Either that or have a big mess of plumbing hanging off the cylinder, which I don't want to do.

Does this help?

 

[wdchyd]

Picker77,

I see, thats's tight......is there room to possibly turn the DOPCV 90 degrees and use 90's on the cyl ports and valve block, then use tubing bent at 90 degrees to make up the diff....?

or mount valve block to side and use small 1/4" ID hoses between block and ports...?

 

[leonz]

The threads are different for british standard pipe fittings and they will leak.

the BSP threading allows you to move the fittings to the proper desired position.

You should never instal an oring on any JIC fitting unless it is an o ring mating flange fitting.


With what you have described it will be less troublesome if you find a reputable hydraulic repair shop

to fix this for you and be done with it.

 

[picker77]

Picker77,

I see, thats's tight......is there room to possibly turn the DOPCV 90 degrees and use 90's on the cyl ports and valve block, then use tubing bent at 90 degrees to make up the diff....?

or mount valve block to side and use small 1/4" ID hoses between block and ports...?

Yep, I could probably do either of those, but that's what I meant about having a bunch of plumbing hanging on there, trying to avoid that.

 

[picker77]

The threads are different for british standard pipe fittings and they will leak.

the BSP threading allows you to move the fittings to the proper desired position.

You should never instal an oring on any JIC fitting unless it is an o ring mating flange fitting.


With what you have described it will be less troublesome if you find a reputable hydraulic repair shop

to fix this for you and be done with it.

Leonz, please note that nowhere in my diagram are there any BSPP threads being used with non-BSPP fittings--All four ports on the valve are BSPP, and the elbows are BSPP to SAE-6. The problem is getting from the SAE-6 side of the elbows into the SAE ports on the cylinder. That is going to require a straight swivel adapter, which I can't seem to find in SAE-6(F) to SAE-6(M) configuration. Thus, the consideration of possible workarounds mentioned so far.

I'm hard headed so I'll try this myself first, and if I can't make it leak free then I'll drop the whole thing on the counter at my hydraulics shop.. those guys love to see me coming. :laughing: But for me, first trying to figure out myself how to make these things work is half the fun of owning a tractor. If I just wanted to be done with it, I'd have coughed up the $260 and bought a ready-to-use side link cylinder from CCM, lol.

 

[wdchyd]

Yep, I could probably do either of those, but that's what I meant about having a bunch of plumbing hanging on there, trying to avoid that.

How about mounting the valve block on the tractor (right up close to the QC's on a detachable mount) and run the hyd hoses only to the cyl....?

 

[picker77]

How about mounting the valve block on the tractor (right up close to the QC's on a detachable mount) and run the hyd hoses only to the cyl....?

That's yet another option, but it would require another set of hoses adding to the rat's nest back there, and the existing QC hoses from the remotes to the cylinder would have to serve as jumpers between the remotes and the valve, and they are too long for that, yadda yadda.. The simple solution is to mount the valve directly on the cylinder ports like I started out to do. Unfortunately, sometimes the simple way can be the hardest way. With all the zillion adapters out there I'm surprised nobody makes a simple female to male SAE straight swivel. Lots of SAE reducers around, but I need a #6 to #6 swivel, not a reducer.

I have some JIC female to ORB male straight swivels enroute from Bailey's, I'll wait until they get here and try them, and if that doesn't work I'll visit the local hydraulics shop. I might have to park around back and come in the side door or they'll see me coming and all run out the back door. :laughing: Just kidding, they actually are good guys, very patient and helpful. But they don't exactly make their payroll helping people like me on two-bit little things like this. They prefer to do things like make up a big batch of large hoses for an oilfield service company, and similar jobs. Can't blame them.

 

[oldnslo]

Picker, I am attaching a pdf of the Parker catalog. Take a look at the C40ML0 fittings. These might work if you can the fitting lengths to work out. Problem with your arrangement is getting some length adjustment so that when tightening the fittings nothing is being stretched.

Roy

Disclaimer: I don't work for Parker Hannifan and this information is available from there website / catalog 4300

 

[wdchyd]

Yes, fitting stretch could be a problem....watch out for that.....Picker all the stuff I see has some tubing in it to make up the odd difference in length....(or welded solid w/ tubing)...

Mounting the valve block on cyl barrel would definetly be a nicer install...

 

[picker77]

Picker, I am attaching a pdf of the Parker catalog. Take a look at the C40ML0 fittings. These might work if you can the fitting lengths to work out. Problem with your arrangement is getting some length adjustment so that when tightening the fittings nothing is being stretched.

Roy

Disclaimer: I don't work for Parker Hannifan and this information is available from there website / catalog 4300

I looked at those, Roy, but wanted to stay away from face seal connectors. The elbows I have look like the best fit here because of their long parallel thread lengths, which (with judicious use of thread tape) allows pretty flexible length adjustment. I can get the horizontal center-to-center distance between elbows matched up just about perfectly to the c-to-c distance between cylinder ports, so stretching should not be a problem there. It's just the short vertical connections between the elbows and the ports that turned out to be such a snag. Who knew SAE straight F-M swivels would be so rare?

For two cents I'd cut some connectors in half and braze up my own Frankenstein SAE F-M swivels, but I'm not sure brazed joints would stand up to the pressure.

 

[oldnslo]

Picker,
you lost me again. Are you looking for a SAE ORB female swivel connected to an SAE ORB male? if so that would be a rare fitting. If you are looking for SAE ORB male to JIC 37 degree female swivel they are plentiful Parker F650X.

As far as brazing fitting fittings. A large portion of tees and elbows used today are all brazed fittings. Just need to socket braze them and not try a butt style braze.

good luck

Roy

 

[picker77]

Picker,
you lost me again. Are you looking for a SAE ORB female swivel connected to an SAE ORB male? if so that would be a rare fitting. If you are looking for SAE ORB male to JIC 37 degree female swivel they are plentiful Parker F650X.

As far as brazing fitting fittings. A large portion of tees and elbows used today are all brazed fittings. Just need to socket braze them and not try a butt style braze.

good luck

Roy

Check my "drawing" earlier in the thread, Roy. It's the SAE #6 Female to Male straight swivels I need, and yes, I'm aware now they are rare, and I understand why. Because of their rarity, I'm going to try JIC female to SAE males similar to what you pointed out. They are on the way, might be here Monday. Maybe I confuse people because I tend to use the terms "SAE" and "ORB" interchangeably, probably a bad habit. I suppose in my mind all ORB's are SAE, and all the SAE's I've used are also ORB. But maybe not all SAE's have O-rings. I'm still new at this, and the hydraulic fitting world is the biggest mess of confused nomenclature on this planet, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[teg]

...hydraulic fitting world is the biggest mess of confused nomenclature on this planet...

Finally, something I can understand about hydraulics... I'm planning to "plumb" a spool with fittings, my future looks bleek...