John Deere 410 backhoe, have to split in two, need help please!!

[cowboybkr]

Okay guys, me and my father-in-law took a chance on an old JD 410 backhoe that supposedly had a rebuilt engine 140 hrs ago. Was hard to crank, but it ran good when cranked, so we took it. Had a JD mechanic do fluid and filter changes for us and give it a test run. Diagnosis not good. He says it barely had the power to pull itself, is losing oil out the middle, and the front bucket will not pick the tractor up. He says it needs a rear main oil seal, a clutch (which is getting oil dumped on it by the faulty seal), a radiator, and a new hydraulic pump (or rebuild).

We don't have a ton of money in it, but can't afford to pay a dealer to do the clutch and seal, so I am contemplating doing it myself. I'm pretty sure I can handle the radiator and hydro pump. I have rebuilt a few motorcycle engines, and do some tinkering on our vehicles, but splitting a backhoe is taking it to a whole new level. Here are my preliminary questions.

1) Is this job doable for a very amateur mechanic?
2) Is there a place to get step-by-step instructions on this job without investing $350 in a service manual?
3) How many hours are we looking at to take the front bucket off, split the machine, replace seal and clutch, and put back together?
4) Anything else I should watch out for while I am in there?
5) What grade of floor jacks do I need, and where do I get supports that bolt to the frame?
6) Is there an entire clutch pack in there that will have to be replaced, and what am I looking at spending on parts?

Any advice from those who have been there is appreciated.

 

[Tx Jim]

On the splitting question I can't answer very well because my experience is with ag not ind tractors. Before you replace the frt hyd pump I would suggest checking stand-by pressure. It should be in the 2250-2350 range. Stand-by pressure can be adjusted by loosening lock nut and turning screw(parts key #33 1st photo). Did your mechanic check hyd oil sump screen for cleanliness? Hyd oil screen is in 2nd photo

 

[Zebrafive]

Are you sure it's the rear main seal? There is a weep hole at the bottom of the clutch housing. It should have a cotter pin in to keep the mud wasps from filling it up and sealing it off. Is this where your leaking oil? Is it motor oil or hydrualic oil?
You have both a dry clutch and the reverser has a wet clutch pack. either could be the cause of not being able to pull it self.
Weak hydraulics could be plugged suction screen, as TX Jim said, find out if it was cleaned first.
Is the tractor drivable enough to remove the loader and drive away? You need that off to split.
Find out what AG tractor this is based on. Maybe 2030? Then get a service manual for it. Will be cheaper and have splitting instructions.
Check with a JD dealer and find out if a special tool is need to install the rear crank seal. There is for the 2030.

If the 410 is based on the 2030 AG tractor you should be able to split. I've split two 2030s, one twice, so I've done it three times.

It may not be a rear main seal leak, but the reverser where it goes thru the clutch housing if hydraulic fluid leaking.

 

[pjbci]

I replaced the clutch in my 310 in a day. Did it just like i do ag tractors. Blocked up the rear half and rolled the engine forward on a floorjack. The front loader doesnt need to come off. You can raise it all the way up and lock it and you will have plenty of room to work underneath it. Make your hyd cyl locks by cutting 2 inch angle iron to fit against the rods of the fully extended cylinders and hold in place with radiator clamps. The whole job took me less than a day but i didnt have to replace the rear main oil seal on mine. Good luck

 

[Piston]

I think I have the full service manual for my 410b. I could scan and email you some sections if needed. However, I'm away on business right now and won't be home until the weekend. Not sure if that would help at all but thought I'd mention it just in case.

 

[cowboybkr]

Thanks for all the great info guys. I'm pretty sure it's motor oil that is dumping out but will double check when I get back up there.

Will any kind of pressure gauge work to test the standby pressure, and where do I hook it up?
Also, is that sump screen located in the hydro pump, or somewhere else on the tractor?

Thanks guys.

 

[Tx Jim]

You can get a gauge at Surplus center for under $15. You can access sump screen on RH side by hyd filter.

 

[Zebrafive]

Incase it's not obvious the suction screen is key 30 in the parts drawing Tx Jim posted

 

[cowboybkr]

Is that dry clutch a single clutch disc? Can I access both clutches if I break the machine apart? Also, would weak hydraulics cause the machine to hot have the power to pull itself?

Sorry for all of the questions, but I am only beginning to learn this machine.

 

[pjbci]

Yes it is a single disk dry clutch. And yes low hyd pressure will cause the same symptoms but its not quite as simple as it seems. The hyd wet clutches that work the reverser work off the low pressure charge pump that supplys the main pump with oil. Both main engine clutch and hyd clutch paks can be acessed when you split the tractor at the bell housing. I think but not positive that the charge pump is in there also. I would split tractor and check the dry clutch then go from there.

 

[pjbci]

If you have a deere construction equip dealer nearby, they will print you whatever pages you need for testing hyd charge pressure and main pump pressure. These test will be very helpful in diagnosing your problems but im still thinking your main clutch has failed

 

[jd110]

The dry clutch and the forward wet clutch can be accessed from the same split at bell housing. The transmission pump and wet reverse clutch need to be accessed from the split between the clutch housing and transmission.

 

[cowboybkr]

Hey guys,

Well, since I stared this thread, we took the machine to a shop and had the engine, dry clutch, power steering pump, and radiator replaced. Engine cranks and runs great, hydraulics are good and strong, but the machine will still barely pull itself. It has about two gears that it will pull itself in. It does seem to work fine in reverse, just not forward.

Any ideas what the issue might be? Wet clutch pack? Hydraulic pump? I'm guessing it's going to take breaking the machine apart again to fix it, right?

Also, filters are new and we cleaned the transmission sump screen.

Thanks for ideas and suggestions.

 

[jd110]

Sounds like the forward wet clutch pack is slipping. The disks may not be worn out, but seals definitely need renewing. Parts 2, 7, and 9 are the seals. Part #1 is a sleeve the sometimes gets worn from seals #2, so pay close attention to that.

 

[Zebrafive]

I agree check forward clutch, since reverse is OK

 

[tobac]

Hey guys,

Well, since I stared this thread, we took the machine to a shop and had the engine, dry clutch, power steering pump, and radiator replaced. Engine cranks and runs great, hydraulics are good and strong, but the machine will still barely pull itself. It has about two gears that it will pull itself in. It does seem to work fine in reverse, just not forward.

Any ideas what the issue might be? Wet clutch pack? Hydraulic pump? I'm guessing it's going to take breaking the machine apart again to fix it, right?

Also, filters are new and we cleaned the transmission sump screen.

Thanks for ideas and suggestions.

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Have you been able to resolve your problems on the JD410? If not please respond and I will give you a few tips that may assist without splitting the tractor.

 

[Ricky B]

I need a wiring diagram for a John Deere 410-B backhoe. The wiring in this backhoe has been tampered with so much that they aren't hooked up properly. The meters don't work and the lights aren't hooked up. Wires are dangling everywhere on this tractor.
The backhoe starter turns over the engine like it has a dead battery. The batteries are new. I think it might be the solenoid or the ignition switch. I need to know what it could be so I can repair it. Thank You!

 

[Tx Jim]

If battery ground cable is attached to battery box relocate cable to starter mounting bolt. Sorry but I can't help you with wiring diagram.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Some one did a post on replacing the O rings in the forward clutch pack. It top gear at fast idle (1000 RPM?) when you move shuttle to go forward or backwards it should kill the engine. Our 310B is OK cold but after working it hard it will slip going forward especially in high range which is not a real issue since we just use in around the place most of the time. Racing the engine for 1 second and letting off the fuel will let the front pack clutch lock up in our case. One must NOT operate it if the clutch pack will not lock up. I had to back ours to the house when we first got it but after a couple fluid and filter changes we got most of the water out of it and it did better. I have found adding a gallon of Lucas Hydraulic Oil Booster from time to time helps some all way around.

 

[buickanddeere]

$350 service manual?
The tractor is old and has been thrashed or trashed from one end to the other . Cheaper to cut your losses and sell it .