John Deere 4200 loader slow

[Dmatt1222]

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I have a 1999 JD 4200 that has a hydraulic problem. The power steering is working fine but the front loader lift and tilt has started operating only at high RPM. Low Rpms it will not move at all. The 3 point hitch appears to operate normally but it has no load on it so I'm not sure about it.

I Drained the hydraulic oil, cleaned the suction strainer, changed the hydraulic oil filter and refilled with oil.

Strainer was clean, there are no oil leaks. I inspected all suction lines and no cracks were found. I disconnected the tilt lines and tried the lift fuction and would not lift at low RPMs. I reconnected the tilt lines and disconnected the lift lines and would not lift at low RPMs.

Local dealer of no help only wants the repair job. I am capable of any repair if I can pin point the trouble.

Any help would be appreciated!

Dan
Sellersburg IN.

 

[kennyd]

Welcome to TBN Dan

The most common problem "the loader is slow or won't lift" questions is the QD's, but it sounds like you have eliminated that problem. The power steering has it's own pump, so that is not a clue...

What did the fluid look like when you changed it? Lots of metal may indicate a pump heading south...How may hours on the machine?

You can also verify the linkage from the joystick to the valve is in good shape.

Possibly a pressure gauge would help you at this point, you can make one up for about $35.00 or so to check your PRV (pressure relief valve) setting.

 

[Dmatt1222]

Kenny, Great to have with me.

This tractor has a double pump with what I believe is the
power steering on one end and the hydraulic on the other.

The fluid I drained was light amber, no odd smell and very little particals.

The hour meter is not working but the tractor was purchased new in 1999 and used to mow 3 acres once a week from April thru October and do light landscaping around the house so my best guess is between 900 and 1000 hours

I'm out of town right now and will check the joystick linkage on 2/24, although the stick action feels normal.

Could you explain a little more about using a gauge to check the relief valve such as the
connection point and expected pressure?

Thanks, Dan

 

[kennyd]

Dan, the gauge simple plugs into a loader QD, then you operate the joystick to send pressure to that port-the max system pressure will be displayed on the gauge. Look at the picture of mine below. Just a gauge, short hose and a QD. Not sure exactly what the pressure rating is (we can find out though)-but should be about 2500lbs.

 

[arrabil]

A 4200 should be 2125 psi.

EDIT: Kenny, you have a link to a post to build the gauge?

 

[kennyd]

A 4200 should be 2125 psi.

EDIT: Kenny, you have a link to a post to build the gauge?

Link? No. But it very simple...screw hose onto gauge, screw QD onto hose.

 

[arrabil]

I knew it was a stupid question. I was hoping to make my life simpler with part numbers...

Dmatt, you may want to remove the loader bucket and see if it operates at low rpm under less weight. Your problem sure sounds like a dying pump. I think there is one on eBay right now.

 

[beenthere]

dmatt
I found the service manual, the following introduction to the hyd. system check.
Mentions flow test as well as pressure test.
Did I understand you to say you cleaned the mesh filter?
See if this introduction helps. Read left column of first pic, then the second pic, and finally the right column of the first pic.

 

[mjncad]

Welcome Dan, and yes the 4200 - 4400 has separate pumps for the power steering and hydraulic systems.

KennyD is a wealth of hydraulic information, and I've learned a lot reading his posts and bouncing ideas back and forth with him.

Although I've never noticed a difference one way or another, could your SCV for the loader be set in the wrong regen position? Your owner's manual explains that better than I can.

 

[kennyd]

I knew it was a stupid question. I was hoping to make my life simpler with part numbers...

Dmatt, you may want to remove the loader bucket and see if it operates at low rpm under less weight. Your problem sure sounds like a dying pump. I think there is one on eBay right now.

OK...

Gauge from the Surplus Center

Hose

NPT adapter

And a QD nipple fom JD that fits your machine...

 

[Duff]

Hi Dmatt

Im unfamilier with the John Deere 4200 tractor, however most tractors hydraulic systems are a gear driven pump, with a open port valve ( the valve in the neutal position the oil will flow from Pressure port to Tank port ).

So the very 1st thing I would do, is check your linkage on your tilt/ lift valve and make sure you get full travel of your valve. If your not getting full travel of your valve then oil will be bypassing back to tank.
So check that there is no build up of dirt or linkage is worn etc.

Check your Q.Ds are fully connected !
Personally Im not a big fan of Q.Ds. If you disconnect very rarely or not at all, then take them off. Just join your hose to the fitting. You will get a better flow of oil to your implements.

When you lift/ tilt can you hear any "squeling" noises at high revs?
You may have some crap in your relief valve. Try extending your cylinders to the end and the rev the **** out of your machine while holding open the lift/ tilt valve. This has worked for me in clearing away some crap in the relief valve.

Get a gauge and check your pressure.
If you dont wish to buy a guage, remove, strip and clean the relief valve. Make sure you measure the adjustment of the needle on the relief valve before disassembling. The most accurate way is with a gauge when checking/setting up the pressure again.

Still no good, remove pump and inspect.

Best of luck

Duff

 

[arrabil]

Thanks for the links Kenny!!! Those are not the pieces I found on my own.

 

[beenthere]

Duff
Welcome to the Forum.


Will look forward to more good information that you can share.

 

[USMC.27]

I had the same problem with my 4200 with 420 FEL. the service center said that the diverter valve was sticking. They said that the cleaned it and it has worked fine ever since.

 

[Egon]

the service center said that the diverter valve was sticking.

I would tend to agree with that.

I have the same tractor and loader with attached backhoe. Just recently I got the manual for the tractor.

There are two ports on the underside beside the hydro filter for checking pump pressure. There are also two relief valve's located in the same area. These are non adjustable. It does state that for checking pressures at these locations a pressure gauge of at least 6000psi??? be used??

Just from looking at the manual removing the pumps is not a ten minute job but serious dismantling.

If you wish I could scan and send some pictures.

 

[Dmatt1222]

I appreicate the warm welcome to the forum. and the great response to my hydro problem from some very knowageable persons.

Considering all the advice given I think my first step will be to
1. Recheck all suction lines
2. Extend the cylinders fully and rev the engine hoping the relief valve
blows through some junk, cleaning itself out.
3. Remove the relief valves inspecting for junk.
4. Check system pressure
5. Inspect and clean SCV

EGON, If you have some info on the diverter/ relief valve, a scan would truley be helpful. I do have a owners manual but have no access to a service
manual.

Thank you guys, I'll let everyone know what I find.

Dan.

 

[Egon]

I only have the service manual for the tractor but not the loader. Ill try and get something scanned for you later today.

I`m assuming you have checked the manual linkages for proper action and oiled them as well.

 

[dcyrilc]

Dmatt1222 & Duff... Welcome to TBN.

 

[kennyd]

I had the same problem with my 4200 with 420 FEL. the service center said that the diverter valve was sticking. They said that the cleaned it and it has worked fine ever since.

What diverter valve? Where is this diverter valve? We may be talking different terminology-but there is no "diverter" valve that I am aware of.

 

[mjncad]

I only have the service manual for the tractor but not the loader. Ill try and get something scanned for you later today.

I`m assuming you have checked the manual linkages for proper action and oiled them as well.

I don't think the loader has a shop manual per se; just the owners manual, and an installation manual. Here is where to get manuals for your Deere. John Deere Technical Information Bookstore - Home Page I got my shop manual on CD as it was half the cost of hardcopy, and I can print out replacement pages at will to replace greasy ones.

What diverter valve? Where is this diverter valve? We may be talking different terminology-but there is no "diverter" valve that I am aware of.

I think the "service center" meant SCV valve.