slowrev
Elite Member
Old sickle mowers often have a PTO shaft/bering/pulley that is handy to use for homebuilt applications like pumps, alternators, etc...
Ben
Ben
John Deere welder....well, sort of
- Thread starter Guidster
- Start date
- Views: 7352
</font><font color="blueclass=small">( </font><font color="blueclass=small">( I have a Link Arc welder on my Jeep that I'm thinking of adapting to my PTO. Any ideas on how to turn an alternator with a PTO would be appreciated. I was thinking of some type of torque converter to vary the speed, or just a direct pully and use the throttle. I like your setup, pretty clever.
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Most alternators do not approach their max output until 5 or 6 thousand RPM. This is a long way to go from 540 or even 1000 RPM. With a 1000 rpm PTO and a 3 inch pulley on the alternator, you would need to have a 18" pulley on the PTO to hit 6000.
One possibility may be to use a hydraulic motor using a remote. I will have a look at the feasibility of that and report the results.
Do you have room under the hood to drive directly off of the engine?
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<font color="black"> In response to your questions, I have put some thought to two possibilities that could make this system an attachment for your tractor.
The first option that I mentioned a couple of days ago was to use a hydraulic motor off of a remote. I think that this would be the most preferable solution as you do not have PTO shafts whirring around you or gear boxes to contend with. You would need a high RPM motor and have the flow capability to drive about 10 horsepower. This is the approach that I would take.
The other option to use a PTO that I could think of that should be cheap and easy to adapt is to convert a worn out rotary cutter or better yet a finish mower (as they have a belt system off of the gear box). In the case of a rotary, you could build a frame around the gear box itself or cut a hole in the deck to mount the alternator with the pulley and belts running under the cutting cutting deck.
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Most alternators do not approach their max output until 5 or 6 thousand RPM. This is a long way to go from 540 or even 1000 RPM. With a 1000 rpm PTO and a 3 inch pulley on the alternator, you would need to have a 18" pulley on the PTO to hit 6000.
One possibility may be to use a hydraulic motor using a remote. I will have a look at the feasibility of that and report the results.
Do you have room under the hood to drive directly off of the engine?
)</font>
<font color="black"> In response to your questions, I have put some thought to two possibilities that could make this system an attachment for your tractor.
The first option that I mentioned a couple of days ago was to use a hydraulic motor off of a remote. I think that this would be the most preferable solution as you do not have PTO shafts whirring around you or gear boxes to contend with. You would need a high RPM motor and have the flow capability to drive about 10 horsepower. This is the approach that I would take.
The other option to use a PTO that I could think of that should be cheap and easy to adapt is to convert a worn out rotary cutter or better yet a finish mower (as they have a belt system off of the gear box). In the case of a rotary, you could build a frame around the gear box itself or cut a hole in the deck to mount the alternator with the pulley and belts running under the cutting cutting deck.
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Some of you stated that you were interested in hearng about the longevity of ths contraption and how I am making out. I can say that I have certainly put this thing through its paces and continue to refine it along the way. So far about I have about 40 hours of operaton welding and testing the high voltage (110 volt) output up to the point of the belt starting to squeal at about 4500 watts (40 amps at 110V). The weld quality is excellent--from the small rod and thin material to the thick material with 1/8" electrodes. I could not be happier. The neighbors are stunned and skeptical when they see it, but amazed at the results it produces. I have already been asked to borrow it and to build one for them. I am just happy that I have a terrific welder for under $200!
One variation from the previous post is that I spent a lot of time and effort coming up with a good voltage regulation system so that I can precisely alter the output of the alternator without having to adjust the speed of the engine. I am on my third permutation that gets more complex with each one, but the results produced continue to spur me on as things get even better with every refinement.
Satisfied at this point with my ability to control the arc and auxillary power output, I am going to start adapting this system to the Case tractor. Details to follow on that front over the next few weeks.
Fun project.
One variation from the previous post is that I spent a lot of time and effort coming up with a good voltage regulation system so that I can precisely alter the output of the alternator without having to adjust the speed of the engine. I am on my third permutation that gets more complex with each one, but the results produced continue to spur me on as things get even better with every refinement.
Satisfied at this point with my ability to control the arc and auxillary power output, I am going to start adapting this system to the Case tractor. Details to follow on that front over the next few weeks.
Fun project.
Volfandt
Veteran Member
Very good idea! A couple questions if'n you don't mind.
I didn't realize an auto alternator could produce 110/120VAC. Are you tapping to the Alternator's AC output before the internal regulator rectifies it?
I recall seeing where you mentioned popping the diodes on an overcurrent so if'n your not tapping into the AC before the rectifier, how are you inverting the DC back to AC?
I'm figureing that you're AC welding, is this correct?
Is that a std one wire GM alternator?
I don't want to infringe but I can see me rigging up something like this myself so any specific info you want to share, I'm all ears err ahhh I mean eyes /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Volfandt
I didn't realize an auto alternator could produce 110/120VAC. Are you tapping to the Alternator's AC output before the internal regulator rectifies it?
I recall seeing where you mentioned popping the diodes on an overcurrent so if'n your not tapping into the AC before the rectifier, how are you inverting the DC back to AC?
I'm figureing that you're AC welding, is this correct?
Is that a std one wire GM alternator?
I don't want to infringe but I can see me rigging up something like this myself so any specific info you want to share, I'm all ears err ahhh I mean eyes /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Volfandt
AntrimMan
Gold Member
My dad has mentioned this approach over the years but never got around to making one up. I think he saw it done a long time ago.
I'm guessing you control the supply to the built in regulator rather than using the 12vdc battery supply. How do you regulate the frequency at 110vac output?
Do you suppose you could post how you boost, regulate and excite the fields for those of us (me) who don't have the ability to think this through themselves? That is if you don't mind us borrowing your idea, we'll give it back when we are finished with it, I promise. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
All the best,
Martin
I'm guessing you control the supply to the built in regulator rather than using the 12vdc battery supply. How do you regulate the frequency at 110vac output?
Do you suppose you could post how you boost, regulate and excite the fields for those of us (me) who don't have the ability to think this through themselves? That is if you don't mind us borrowing your idea, we'll give it back when we are finished with it, I promise. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
All the best,
Martin
AntrimMan
Gold Member
Ok, thanks.
Patient Martin
Patient Martin
Volfandt
Veteran Member
I did some research and found quite a bit of info on the web on makeing a DC stick welder out of an alternator. Theres even a fellow selling instructions on ebay.
I'm definitely going to pursue this project.
I went out today and visited a couple junk yards and I finally found an older alternator with a V belt pulley buried in a big pile of later model alt's with flat pulleys. Cost was $25.
The V-belt pulley's are getting few & far in between according to the owners, especially hd ones. Flat pulleys have been the norm since the 80's.
The alt I found was an older 110amp Bosch which should fit the bill quite well. Even though the ultimate plan is to run it off my 8hp Wheelhorse, I setup a test jig with a spare 2hp AC motor I had laying around for testing and fabrication and the alternator tested good. With no load it's putting out 13vDC.
Next step will be to disassemble, clean it up, remove the regulator and exciter diode. I may remote mount the rectifier diode assembly's but will determine that once I get into it. Since the alt is rated at 110amps, the diodes should be more than adequate in handling the welding current.
I also noticed that most folks that add 110v outlets on these setups are actually useing 110vDC which will power most AC tools that have brushes, i.e. drills, grinders etc.
I am more interested in trying to tap into the windings before the rectifiers and getting AC. But still use DC for welding. The main problem is going to be maintaining 60hz on the AC output.
If'n you get it ciphered Guidster let us know and I do the same. This is an outstanding idea.
Volfandt
I'm definitely going to pursue this project.
I went out today and visited a couple junk yards and I finally found an older alternator with a V belt pulley buried in a big pile of later model alt's with flat pulleys. Cost was $25.
The V-belt pulley's are getting few & far in between according to the owners, especially hd ones. Flat pulleys have been the norm since the 80's.
The alt I found was an older 110amp Bosch which should fit the bill quite well. Even though the ultimate plan is to run it off my 8hp Wheelhorse, I setup a test jig with a spare 2hp AC motor I had laying around for testing and fabrication and the alternator tested good. With no load it's putting out 13vDC.
Next step will be to disassemble, clean it up, remove the regulator and exciter diode. I may remote mount the rectifier diode assembly's but will determine that once I get into it. Since the alt is rated at 110amps, the diodes should be more than adequate in handling the welding current.
I also noticed that most folks that add 110v outlets on these setups are actually useing 110vDC which will power most AC tools that have brushes, i.e. drills, grinders etc.
I am more interested in trying to tap into the windings before the rectifiers and getting AC. But still use DC for welding. The main problem is going to be maintaining 60hz on the AC output.
If'n you get it ciphered Guidster let us know and I do the same. This is an outstanding idea.
Volfandt
Attachments
Volfandt
Veteran Member
Along the same lines as you and after seeing your project, I also wanted to power an alternator/welder off of a tractor too. In my case, I wanted to get some more work out of my 40 yr old 856 Wheelhorse. I "resurrected" it last yr after letting it sit and waste away for 4 or 5 yrs and it's been earning it's keep in the 22 hrs since.
After many trials & errors with that Bosch alt I decided to visit the junk yard again and this time I left w/a $20 75amp Delco Remy. Ends up that weak Bosch alt, probably the diodes breaking down once they got hot, was my main problem in getting the alt/welder to work. It never got over 80vDC and hardly generated enough amperage to run a bead.
My Wheelhorse has an additional engine pulley but since it is basically the same diameter as the alt pulley, I wasn't getting enough RPM. I was only able to get around 55vDC out of both alt's at full throttle. So I went out found a 6" pulley and there was just enough engine shaft left to slide it on. With the 6" pulley I can get over 140vDC out of the Delco alt at full throttle! I haven't the means to measure that much current but based on the arcing I'd say I'm getting close to it's rated 75 amps!
Sorry to say that my welding leaves alot to be desired so I ain't post'n no pic of my sorry beads, but the good thing is that I can practice now /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
This is a right side shot of my setup. The 6" engine pulley, 47" drive belt and my "quick-attach" alt/welder rig can be seen.
After many trials & errors with that Bosch alt I decided to visit the junk yard again and this time I left w/a $20 75amp Delco Remy. Ends up that weak Bosch alt, probably the diodes breaking down once they got hot, was my main problem in getting the alt/welder to work. It never got over 80vDC and hardly generated enough amperage to run a bead.
My Wheelhorse has an additional engine pulley but since it is basically the same diameter as the alt pulley, I wasn't getting enough RPM. I was only able to get around 55vDC out of both alt's at full throttle. So I went out found a 6" pulley and there was just enough engine shaft left to slide it on. With the 6" pulley I can get over 140vDC out of the Delco alt at full throttle! I haven't the means to measure that much current but based on the arcing I'd say I'm getting close to it's rated 75 amps!
Sorry to say that my welding leaves alot to be desired so I ain't post'n no pic of my sorry beads, but the good thing is that I can practice now /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
This is a right side shot of my setup. The 6" engine pulley, 47" drive belt and my "quick-attach" alt/welder rig can be seen.
