Just bought first tractor and got ripped off

   / Just bought first tractor and got ripped off #112  
Interesting tid bit I thought I'd share:

"Eleven states (Connecticut, Kansas, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Mississippi, New Hampshire, Vermont, Washington, and West Virginia) and the District of Columbia prohibit consumer products from being sold "as is.""

What You Need to Know about Warranty Laws - Consumer Reports
 
   / Just bought first tractor and got ripped off #113  
Is fully functional. Not sure how long. It leaks about 1/4 of a quart of hydraulic oil a day.

Does it leak that every day or only if you top it off daily? I am guessing the previous owner likely did not keep a close eye on fluids and just ran it.
 
   / Just bought first tractor and got ripped off #115  

The laws are likely on the books, but, it is a good chance they are un-enforceable.
I worked with a guy, he paid a neighbor to build a garage (this IS in VA,, and it was 1994)
Well the neighbor delivered the materials, started the framing, and never got it under roof, never a sheet of siding went up.
My co-worker went to court,, and lost.
The judge said that "workmanship" varies,, and is not court decidable.

It turned out, that the "neighbor" had done this over 20 times, and never lost in court.
He always self-represented, so he had no legal expenses,,,

8 ounces of oil a day may fall into that category.
 
   / Just bought first tractor and got ripped off #116  
I agree you should get a lawyers advice. The previous owner did defraud you by not disclosing previous weld repairs and acknowledged that fact to you in writing after you purchased. You have the paper trail. The lawyer should be able to send him a letter forcing him to refund your money or he will be sued for fraud.
If this does not work out I doubt you would be able to sell it to someone else in its present condition other than for parts. Since you know about the weld repairs you would have to disclose that or you would be the one being sued by the next owner.

You probably did not see the conversation before it was deleted, but, the seller did NOT disclose that he knew about the repairs. In fact, he seemed just as surprised as the OP and claimed he had never personally looked, but that his mechanic had said that it was leaking, was probably a gasket, and would require splitting the tractor to get too.. This was something that WAS disclosed to the OP at the time of sale. Also, in the convo, the seller tried to make some amends to the OP for his troubles, but the OP wanted a $5-6000 implement instead of being reasonable.

Unless the OP has more to show, this will go nowhere as it is currently known.
 
   / Just bought first tractor and got ripped off #117  
I'll say it again. You're in VA. VA has Consumer Protection Laws. Misrepresenting condition of an item is not excused by "As is". There was a material fault that was known and not readily visible and was not disclosed.

Virginia Consumer Protection Act

ァ 59.1-200. Prohibited practices.

A. The following fraudulent acts or practices committed by a supplier in connection with a consumer transaction are hereby declared unlawful:

1. Misrepresenting goods or services as those of another;

2. Misrepresenting the source, sponsorship, approval, or certification of goods or services;

3. Misrepresenting the affiliation, connection, or association of the supplier, or of the goods or services, with another;

4. Misrepresenting geographic origin in connection with goods or services;

5. Misrepresenting that goods or services have certain quantities, characteristics, ingredients, uses, or benefits;

6. Misrepresenting that goods or services are of a particular standard, quality, grade, style, or model;

7. Advertising or offering for sale goods that are used, secondhand, repossessed, defective, blemished, deteriorated, or reconditioned, or that are "seconds, " irregulars, imperfects, or "not first class, " without clearly and unequivocally indicating in the advertisement or offer for sale that the goods are used, secondhand, repossessed, defective, blemished, deteriorated, reconditioned, or are "seconds, " irregulars, imperfects or "not first class";

8. Advertising goods or services with intent not to sell them as advertised, or with intent not to sell at the price or upon the terms advertised.

In any action brought under this subdivision, the refusal by any person, or any employee, agent, or servant thereof, to sell any goods or services advertised or offered for sale at the price or upon the terms advertised or offered, shall be prima facie evidence of a violation of this subdivision. This paragraph shall not apply when it is clearly and conspicuously stated in the advertisement or offer by which such goods or services are advertised or offered for sale, that the supplier or offeror has a limited quantity or amount of such goods or services for sale, and the supplier or offeror at the time of such advertisement or offer did in fact have or reasonably expected to have at least such quantity or amount for sale;

9. Making false or misleading statements of fact concerning the reasons for, existence of, or amounts of price reductions;

10. Misrepresenting that repairs, alterations, modifications, or services have been performed or parts installed;

11. Misrepresenting by the use of any written or documentary material that appears to be an invoice or bill for merchandise or services previously ordered;

12. Notwithstanding any other provision of law, using in any manner the words "wholesale, " "wholesaler, " "factory, " or "manufacturer" in the supplier's name, or to describe the nature of the supplier's business, unless the supplier is actually engaged primarily in selling at wholesale or in manufacturing the goods or services advertised or offered for sale;

13. Using in any contract or lease any liquidated damage clause, penalty clause, or waiver of defense, or attempting to collect any liquidated damages or penalties under any clause, waiver, damages, or penalties that are void or unenforceable under any otherwise applicable laws of the Commonwealth, or under federal statutes or regulations;

13a. Failing to provide to a consumer, or failing to use or include in any written document or material provided to or executed by a consumer, in connection with a consumer transaction any statement, disclosure, notice, or other information however characterized when the supplier is required by 16 C.F.R. Part 433 to so provide, use, or include the statement, disclosure, notice, or other information in connection with the consumer transaction;

14. Using any other deception, fraud, false pretense, false promise, or misrepresentation in connection with a consumer transaction;

15. Violating any provision of ァ 3.2-6512, 3.2-6513, or 3.2-6516, relating to the sale of certain animals by pet dealers which is described in such sections, is a violation of this chapter;

16. Failing to disclose all conditions, charges, or fees relating to:

a. The return of goods for refund, exchange, or credit. Such disclosure shall be by means of a sign attached to the goods, or placed in a conspicuous public area of the premises of the supplier, so as to be readily noticeable and readable by the person obtaining the goods from the supplier. If the supplier does not permit a refund, exchange, or credit for return, he shall so state on a similar sign. The provisions of this subdivision shall not apply to any retail merchant who has a policy of providing, for a period of not less than 20 days after date of purchase, a cash refund or credit to the purchaser's credit card account for the return of defective, unused, or undamaged merchandise upon presentation of proof of purchase. In the case of merchandise paid for by check, the purchase shall be treated as a cash purchase and any refund may be delayed for a period of 10 banking days to allow for the check to clear. This subdivision does not apply to sale merchandise that is obviously distressed, out of date, post season, or otherwise reduced for clearance; nor does this subdivision apply to special order purchases where the purchaser has requested the supplier to order merchandise of a specific or unusual size, color, or brand not ordinarily carried in the store or the store's catalog; nor shall this subdivision apply in connection with a transaction for the sale or lease of motor vehicles, farm tractors, or motorcycles as defined in ァ 46.2-100;

b. A layaway agreement. Such disclosure shall be furnished to the consumer (i) in writing at the time of the layaway agreement, or (ii) by means of a sign placed in a conspicuous public area of the premises of the supplier, so as to be readily noticeable and readable by the consumer, or (iii) on the bill of sale. Disclosure shall include the conditions, charges, or fees in the event that a consumer breaches the agreement;

16a. Failing to provide written notice to a consumer of an existing open-end credit balance in excess of $5 (i) on an account maintained by the supplier and (ii) resulting from such consumer's overpayment on such account. Suppliers shall give consumers written notice of such credit balances within 60 days of receiving overpayments. If the credit balance information is incorporated into statements of account furnished consumers by suppliers within such 60-day period, no separate or additional notice is required;

17. If a supplier enters into a written agreement with a consumer to resolve a dispute that arises in connection with a consumer transaction, failing to adhere to the terms and conditions of such an agreement;

18. Violating any provision of the Virginia Health Club Act, Chapter 24 (ァ 59.1-294 et seq.) of this title;

19. Violating any provision of the Virginia Home Solicitation Sales Act, Chapter 2.1 (ァ 59.1-21.1 et seq.) of this title;

20. Violating any provision of the Automobile Repair Facilities Act, Chapter 17.1 (ァ 59.1-207.1 et seq.) of this title;

21. Violating any provision of the Virginia Lease-Purchase Agreement Act, Chapter 17.4 (ァ 59.1-207.17 et seq.) of this title;

22. Violating any provision of the Prizes and Gifts Act, Chapter 31 (ァ 59.1-415 et seq.) of this title;

23. Violating any provision of the Virginia Public Telephone Information Act, Chapter 32 (ァ 59.1-424 et seq.) of this title;

24. Violating any provision of ァ 54.1-1505;

25. Violating any provision of the Motor Vehicle Manufacturers' Warranty Adjustment Act, Chapter 17.6 (ァ 59.1-207.34 et seq.) of this title;

26. Violating any provision of ァ 3.2-5627, relating to the pricing of merchandise;

27. Violating any provision of the Pay-Per-Call Services Act, Chapter 33 (ァ 59.1-429 et seq.) of this title;

28. Violating any provision of the Extended Service Contract Act, Chapter 34 (ァ 59.1-435 et seq.) of this title;

29. Violating any provision of the Virginia Membership Camping Act, Chapter 25 (ァ 59.1-311 et seq.) of this title;

30. Violating any provision of the Comparison Price Advertising Act, Chapter 17.7 (ァ 59.1-207.40 et seq.) of this title;

31. Violating any provision of the Virginia Travel Club Act, Chapter 36 (ァ 59.1-445 et seq.) of this title;

32. Violating any provision of ァァ 46.2-1231 and 46.2-1233.1;

33. Violating any provision of Chapter 40 (ァ 54.1-4000 et seq.) of Title 54.1;

34. Violating any provision of Chapter 10.1 (ァ 58.1-1031 et seq.) of Title 58.1;

35. Using the consumer's social security number as the consumer's account number with the supplier, if the consumer has requested in writing that the supplier use an alternate number not associated with the consumer's social security number;

36. Violating any provision of Chapter 18 (ァ 6.2-1800 et seq.) of Title 6.2;

37. Violating any provision of ァ 8.01-40.2;

38. Violating any provision of Article 7 (ァ 32.1-212 et seq.) of Chapter 6 of Title 32.1;

39. Violating any provision of Chapter 34.1 (ァ 59.1-441.1 et seq.) of this title;

40. Violating any provision of Chapter 20 (ァ 6.2-2000 et seq.) of Title 6.2;

41. Violating any provision of the Virginia Post-Disaster Anti-Price Gouging Act, Chapter 46 (ァ 59.1-525 et seq.) of this title;

42. Violating any provision of Chapter 47 (ァ 59.1-530 et seq.) of this title;

43. Violating any provision of ァ 59.1-443.2;

44. Violating any provision of Chapter 48 (ァ 59.1-533 et seq.) of this title;

45. Violating any provision of Chapter 25 (ァ 6.2-2500 et seq.) of Title 6.2;

46. Violating the provisions of clause (i) of subsection B of ァ 54.1-1115;

47. Violating any provision of ァ 18.2-239;

48. Violating any provision of Chapter 26 (ァ 59.1-336 et seq.);

49. Selling, offering for sale, or manufacturing for sale a children's product the supplier knows or has reason to know was recalled by the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission. There is a rebuttable presumption that a supplier has reason to know a children's product was recalled if notice of the recall has been posted continuously at least 30 days before the sale, offer for sale, or manufacturing for sale on the website of the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission. This prohibition does not apply to children's products that are used, secondhand or "seconds";

50. Violating any provision of Chapter 44.1 (ァ 59.1-518.1 et seq.) of this title;

51. Violating any provision of Chapter 22 (ァ 6.2-2200 et seq.) of Title 6.2;

52. Violating any provision of ァ 8.2-317.1;

53. Violating subsection A of ァ 9.1-149.1; and

54. Selling, offering for sale, or using in the construction, remodeling, or repair of any residential dwelling in the Commonwealth, any drywall that the supplier knows or has reason to know is defective drywall. This subdivision shall not apply to the sale or offering for sale of any building or structure in which defective drywall has been permanently installed or affixed.

B. Nothing in this section shall be construed to invalidate or make unenforceable any contract or lease solely by reason of the failure of such contract or lease to comply with any other law of the Commonwealth or any federal statute or regulation, to the extent such other law, statute, or regulation provides that a violation of such law, statute, or regulation shall not invalidate or make unenforceable such contract or lease.

1977, c. 635; 1979, c. 304; 1981, c. 205; 1983, c. 173; 1986, c. 432; 1987, cc. 462 to 464; 1988, cc. 24, 534; 1989, cc. 689, 703; 1990, c. 584; 1991, cc. 300, 605, 608, 630, 654; 1992, cc. 278, 545, 768; 1993, cc. 455, 760; 1994, cc. 261, 400, 655; 1995, c. 10; 1998, c. 848; 2000, cc. 880, 901; 2002, cc. 217, 897; 2003, cc. 800, 1003; 2004, cc. 784, 790, 798, 817; 2005, cc. 269, 303, 640, 861; 2006, c. 399; 2008, cc. 294, 791, 842; 2009, cc. 321, 359, 376, 699, 700; 2010, cc. 477, 713; 2011, c. 615; 2014, cc. 396, 459; 2016, c. 591.


See reply above.. ^^
 
   / Just bought first tractor and got ripped off #118  
You probably did not see the conversation before it was deleted, but, the seller did NOT disclose that he knew about the repairs. In fact, he seemed just as surprised as the OP and claimed he had never personally looked, but that his mechanic had said that it was leaking, was probably a gasket, and would require splitting the tractor to get too.. This was something that WAS disclosed to the OP at the time of sale. Also, in the convo, the seller tried to make some amends to the OP for his troubles, but the OP wanted a $5-6000 implement instead of being reasonable.

Unless the OP has more to show, this will go nowhere as it is currently known.


No I don't know what post was deleted. But in post#8 the buyer says he has texts from the PO saying he knew and forgot to tell the buyer about the weld repair. That is the proof I would show my lawyer.
 
   / Just bought first tractor and got ripped off #119  
Options for OP to consider as I see it:
Lawyer = low probability of success, $$=high.
Part out = lot of work - dissassemble, find buyers, make sales, $$=not much considering work.
Fix leak (reweld case) = moderate work, moderate $$.
Fix leak (JB Weld) = moderate work, low $$.
Sell or trade = easy to do, loss of $$=high

Not yet discussed: OP could go onto Messick's website and cost out a replacement part. If a new case is $1000 (for example) that might not be a bad way to go.

There is at least one other TC24D thread I remember where the poster installed a loader and immediately broke the case because of loose support bracket bolts. I wonder if that big loader on the front of the tractor has something to do with this. Are the brackets loose?

Oh and my favorite option - just live with it. Oil is cheap.

Still hoping for a good outcome here, there are several paths to look at.
 
   / Just bought first tractor and got ripped off
  • Thread Starter
#120  
If the tiller was a $4000-$5000 implement that I asked for. That's crazy because he had it posted for sale for $1400
 

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