Just numbers, with maths

[sea2summit]

He have the % of Iowans vaccinated (conversely one can figure out % not vaccinated).
He gave the % of unvaccinated in ICU with covid (conversely one can figure out % in ICU vaccinated).

I don’t see where he gave an opinion.
He only stated the simple logic that if the vaccinated wasn’t effective, the percentages of vaccinated/unvaccinated in the ICU’s would be the same as the percentages of vaccinated/unvaccinated Iowans. They are not.
The numbers show that unvaccinated are more likely to be in ICU.

It’s a stretch, but I suppose one could try to argue that the vaccination is ineffective, but there’s something else about people who refuse the vaccine that makes them 3 times more likely to end up in the ICU.
Perhaps the type of person who is unvaccinated is just 3 times more unhealthy because they eat a poor diet, exercise less, have higher rates of obesity, diabetes and heart conditions?
Spitballing here, but perhaps their reaction to covid is more tied to their obesity and health than the vaccination?
If we did a study that says the unvaccinated are more likely to be unhealthy fat Americans and that’s why they end up in the ICU when they get covid (and not because they didn’t get the shot), then I’d believe the shot was ineffective.
I don’t think that data exists.
Meanwhile, the data shows who ends up in the ICU is related to the shot.

Numbers would be something like 133 patients admitted in the last 24 hrs, covid cases in ICU at 133, on ventilators 98. Currently 828 ventilators available. Those are facts.

I can prove that 100% of people die from just two causes, I could even strongly argue a single cause. That's an opinion from my point of view. That doesn't mean we as a people don't need to consider the millions of other data points out there for our own safety, right?

 

[MasseyFerg231]

Interesting crowd you run with... And, there's an interesting connection here to morbidity rates for COVID-19 victims. Diabetes is one of the key co-morbidities. Diabetes (type II) is the result of extensive lengths of time ingesting excessive amounts of sugars. Most alcholhol is stuffed with sugars (and even those that aren't are also contributors to liver damage; the liver helps regulating blood sugar levels in the body). Diabetes tends to create the other two co-morbidities: obesity and cancer (cancer loves sugar).

It’s not that I run with with a drinking crowd or any crowd at all other than my family. I rarely have any alcohol, maybe on average 2 beers a month if that. It’s that I have friends / acquaintances who were hit by drunk drivers, etc

I don’t think really had a point other than do your best at all you do but in the end we all die. Is it any better to die from pancreatic cancer, getting hit by a drunk driver, Covid, pneumonia, drive by shooting?

There is one action that all living people could do to make this world a better place and it wouldn’t cost anyone any money out of pocket:

Treat others better than you treat yourself.

 

[rjpotts]

Numbers would be something like 133 patients admitted in the last 24 hrs, covid cases in ICU at 133, on ventilators 98. Currently 828 ventilators available. Those are facts.

I can prove that 100% of people die from just two causes, I could even strongly argue a single cause. That's an opinion from my point of view. That doesn't mean we as a people don't need to consider the millions of other data points out there for our own safety, right?

I think sea2summit is off his meds.

 

[Jchonline]

If you include people I see on the ICU boards in the hospital that died Over the past year, hundreds. Not thousands though…I just go to a few different hospitals. Sadly I did not know many of them personally. A few I talked to before they were ventilated. Also have to mention is it an amazingly good feeling to see someone make it out of the ICU as well.

I do not know of a close personal friend or family that has died from it. So personally none in CO.

 

[GeneV]

The word "lie" may not be quite the correct word here, but maybe it is. Lie implies the intent to mislead. I don't think they know anymore than anyone who is keeping up on the information available, so maybe "guess" or "postulate" or ??? The problem I have with this is that they portray themselves as knowing the answer and what they tell us turns out to be wrong so they don't know! I think the general public can make appropriate decisions if they are given the information and let them come to their own conclusions.

When someone tells me they're an expert it immediately sends up a red flag. I worked for a company once that was trying to get into a new product line. They managed to get an opportunity to bid on a job and went to present it to the customer. I got selected to be the expert on "xyz" and spent an hour reading up on it before we had to do the presentation so I knew more about it than anyone in our company, but far from being an "expert". Turns out I did know more than our customer, but that's not saying much and I still don't think that qualifies me as an "expert". (We did not get the contract.)

I think a decision had been reached that it's vaccine or bust. At the onset of the outbreak, most likely that decision was made with the limited info as available, in good faith. But at this point, it seems they're thinking well that's the cards we're holding in hand, so we'll just keep playing them.

 

[CobyRupert]

I think a decision had been reached that it's vaccine or bust. At the onset of the outbreak, most likely that decision was made with the limited info as available, in good faith. But at this point, it seems they're thinking well that's the cards we're holding in hand, so we'll just keep playing them.

Let’s think about it. The masks and shutdown don’t stop spread, it just slows it. So others are correct, it prolonged the pandemic. The flip side, is they tried not to overload the icu’s and morgues.

Let’s consider the extreme. If everybody somehow had quickly got Covid in April, 2020, we (the survivors anyway) would all have immunity, and Covid would of been over after two weeks. It wouldn’t have dragged on for 18 months. It would been long forgotten except for those with close relatives taken.
Now, hospitals, morgues, society itself, may of been overrun in those two weeks when the whole world is sick, down and out, but we’d all be cure of Covid. Could you imagine 750,000 American deaths in the span of two weeks? You’d need excavators or furnaces to deal with the dead. It would make the bodies that stacked up in the Superdome during Katrina look like a practice run.
Crazy at it sounds, many people advocate Covid burning uncontrolled through the population.

Now we have the opportunity to spread it with vaccination shots without as many of the deaths and ICU visits.

 

[Sigarms]

Personally, 1.

Through work, 4.

 

[GeneV]

Let’s think about it. The masks and shutdown don’t stop spread, it just slows it. So others are correct, it prolonged the pandemic. The flip side, is they tried not to overload the icu’s and morgues.

Let’s consider the extreme. If everybody somehow had quickly got Covid in April, 2020, we (the survivors anyway) would all have immunity, and Covid would of been over after two weeks. It wouldn’t have dragged on for 18 months. It would been long forgotten except for those with close relatives taken.
Now, hospitals, morgues, society itself, may of been overrun in those two weeks when the whole world is sick, down and out, but we’d all be cure of Covid. Could you imagine 750,000 American deaths in the span of two weeks? You’d need excavators or furnaces to deal with the dead. It would make the bodies that stacked up in the Superdome during Katrina look like a practice run.
Crazy at it sounds, many people advocate Covid burning uncontrolled through the population.

Now we have the opportunity to spread it with vaccination shots without as many of the deaths and ICU visits.

Yup, I can't argue with any of that. But, you'll probably be surprised to learn that I could also play devil advocate here about sustained natural immunity. I don't think anyone knows just yet how long natural immunity holds up post Covid. However, places like Israel are demonstrating quite effectively how long the jab immunity lasts...about 6 months.

 

[k0ua]

in my opinion, places like Australia with severe lockdowns which attempt to prevent spread will pay a BIG price in several ways. One big price is eventually the nation WILL catch fire with the spread of the disease running rampant thru the nation with no buffers of people with natural immunity. Lockdowns DO NOT WORK, not over time. Nature will find a way, and the people will "cheat" and attempt to escape the lockdown. (prison). Of course they will pay big economically and mental health wise and just in general with the loss of freedom. But they have made their choice to act like a communist dictatorship instead of a free nation, and they can just live with that. I can only pray for out brothers "down under", but I really feel this is the wrong path for them.

 

[the old grind]

I have much respect for those who caught covid in the name of herd immunity. They tried, and some gave all. btw, apologies for getting vaxxed and prolonging the pandemic. (gotta go pray for nice weather and world peace, back soon)