just when you thought you knew what stupid was

[ptsg]

This has already been addressed. (See post 223). Every study listed there is related to seasonal influenza, not SARS-CoV-2. Different viruses behave differently.

Furthermore, as FatJay pointed out, each of those studies only looks at the effectiveness of masks and their ability to protect the individual. As the extensive literature shows, and as has been explained here in this thread, masks stop the expiration of infected droplets. So, they protect others more than they protect you.

Understanding this, the results of each of those studies makes perfect sense. Have a control group wear a mask (no one else in public does) and people with masks still get sick. This is precisely what scientists have been saying.

Wow RSR, you have far more patience than me. I feel that you have been "speaking" to a wall most of the time though.

They are not asking much, other that using a simple mask in public or closed spaces.

 

[RSR]

I must disagree with the idea that money and politics don稚 influence research, I think they do.

I almost went on a rant but controlled myself.

I will say this.....I worked with scientists, professors and engineers for years. Just like everyone else, good, bad, motivated, unmotivated.

Last comment.....I learned this years ago. A tenured professor in the US is the least stressful job out there.

Well, I'm a tenured profesor, and average about 60-70 hours of work per week. Some of the hardest working people I know are tenured professors. They love what they do, and so it becomes their life. There is a tenured professor in my department that is 80, and still publishes 15 papers/year. (2/year is the standard for a "productive" professor). He had a stent put in last year and was back at work 2 days later ...

Now, I'm not naive enough to say there aren't those that abuse the system. We also have individuals like that in our department at my University.

But, painting all tenured individuals with a broad brush stroke is not accurate.

 

[RSR]

Wow RSR, you have far more patience than me. I feel that you have been "speaking" to a wall most of the time though.

They are not asking much, other that using a simple mask in public or closed spaces.

Thanks for the kind note. I find your comment funny because I don't actually characterize myself as a very patient individual. Quite the opposite.

I've had conversations multiple times with colleagues about these exact types of discussions.

The research is very clear, but not always accesible to the average person, that masks make a significant difference in preventing the spread of the virus. They usually aren't reading the peer-reviewed articles, attending the seminars/webinars, participating in funding discussion at grant agencies, etc.

If we want to make a difference in this pandemic, sitting in our ivory towers while doing more research that confirms what we already know isn't they way to go about doing it.

Instead, the approach that is likely to have a more positive impact (more compliance) is to engage with individuals and try to explain why masks actually do make a difference.

This approach can work. Initially, almost all states hesitated in implementing mask mandates, and slowly but surely, virtually every one has now reversed that decision.

It does, at times, feel like you're talking to a wall though. You can't convince everyone, but if you can convince a few, that has a chance of making a difference and saving a few lives.

 

[MoMower]

Cloth masks don't protect you, they protect other people from you. The idea is if everyone has one, the spread stops. Not wearing one says you don't give a **** about anyone else.

Lol....

 

[Citydude]

Cloth masks don't protect you, they protect other people from you. The idea is if everyone has one, the spread stops. Not wearing one says you don't give a **** about anyone else.

If a mask doesn’t protect me from a virus, then what is it protecting other people from? If I’m the other people, I’m safe from me? But I’m not safe from other people?

 

[Jchonline]

Well, now we're delving into semantics, but I certainly don't consider those "scientists." You're absolutely right, they may have entirely different motivations.

That's why if the public wants to understand if masks are effective, they should look to the actual scientists doing the research, as opposed to politicians (e.g., the sheriff in the article).

As I said earlier, you won't find a single aerosol scientist that says you shouldn't wear a mask. It protects others, and recent peer-reviewed published work shows that cloth face coverings also provide the wearer some protection, which is better than nothing.

Bandanas and Gators on the other hand......

Low-cost measurement of facemask efficacy for filtering expelled droplets during speech | Science Advances

 

[MoMower]

I wonder if some of these people are Russians trying to get us to go out and infect each other?

Definitely

 

[MoMower]

Bandanas and Gators on the other hand......

Low-cost measurement of facemask efficacy for filtering expelled droplets during speech | Science Advances

Exactly my point, certified N95s May do something. A piece of cotton is not and is pure virtue signaling, a waste of time and effort and juvenile at this point. With a whole side of do as I say not as I do...Lewis funeral anyone?

 

[MossRoad]

If a mask doesn’t protect me from a virus, then what is it protecting other people from? If I’m the other people, I’m safe from me? But I’m not safe from other people?

Wearing a mask is to lessen the chances of you spreading water droplets when you talk, breath, sneeze, etc... it's not to keep you from catching the virus.

If everyone would wear a mask when around other people, it would greatly reduce the rate of transmission.

It's just that simple.

Go to this website, watch the videos, and it shows you how no mask VS several different types of masks works to lessen the spread of water droplets.

Which mask works best? We filmed people coughing and sneezing to find out - ABC News

 

[MossRoad]

Exactly my point, certified N95s May do something. A piece of cotton is not and is pure virtue signaling, a waste of time and effort and juvenile at this point. With a whole side of do as I say not as I do...Lewis funeral anyone?

Wearing a mask is to lessen the chances of you spreading water droplets when you talk, breath, sneeze, etc... it's not to keep you from catching the virus.

If everyone would wear a mask when around other people, it would greatly reduce the rate of transmission.

It's just that simple.

Go to this website, watch the videos, and it shows you how no mask VS several different types of masks works to lessen the spread of water droplets.

Which mask works best? We filmed people coughing and sneezing to find out - ABC News

 

[Citydude]

Thanks for the kind note. I find your comment funny because I don't actually characterize myself as a very patient individual. Quite the opposite.

I've had conversations multiple times with colleagues about these exact types of discussions.

The research is very clear, but not always accesible to the average person, that masks make a significant difference in preventing the spread of the virus. They usually aren't reading the peer-reviewed articles, attending the seminars/webinars, participating in funding discussion at grant agencies, etc.

If we want to make a difference in this pandemic, sitting in our ivory towers while doing more research that confirms what we already know isn't they way to go about doing it.

Instead, the approach that is likely to have a more positive impact (more compliance) is to engage with individuals and try to explain why masks actually do make a difference.

This approach can work. Initially, almost all states hesitated in implementing mask mandates, and slowly but surely, virtually every one has now reversed that decision.

It does, at times, feel like you're talking to a wall though. You can't convince everyone, but if you can convince a few, that has a chance of making a difference and saving a few lives.

I appreciate your input. One question that I have is I heard that if you can smell ground coffee through your mask, it does no good to stop a virus. Is this valid?

 

[deezler]

Cloth Masks Are Useless Against COVID-19 | Infection Control Today

FROM YOUR OWN LINK: "at the end of the day, cloth masks in my opinion don稚 work in any form. They aren稚 very good at source control, except for maybe very large particles. And they should not be used in healthcare settings for a number of reasons. Surgical masks, I decided, based on the literature, might have a role as source control for people who have symptoms.

This pathetic article/interview is just the opinion of one grumpy lady. Who readily admits that MASKS WORK as source control for infected persons (her statement of persons with "symptoms" is completely unscientific garbage). THAT IS THE ENTIRE POINT. We don't know who has covid, because you could be pre-symptomatic or asymptomatic. Wear the mask in public spaces, or you are just being selfish.

 

[deezler]

Thanks RSR and all the other intelligent folks chiming in to help continue to remind our fellow citizens about the importance of following scientific guidance on this novel virus. Wearing a mask is easy and simple, just like wearing clothes in public and fastening your seatbelt in your car.

I'm sure the denialists will call this fake news and stay firmly in their confirmation bias bubble, but I actually found this article somewhat relevant:
Pandemic denial: Why some people can't accept Covid-19's realities - CNN

Persistent denial of such simple truth is basically a form of mental illness that requires calm and steady responses.

 

[deezler]

I appreciate your input. One question that I have is I heard that if you can smell ground coffee through your mask, it does no good to stop a virus. Is this valid?

Not one bit. Gas molecules that you smell from coffee, farts, etc, are TINY and easily flow through a mask. Droplets that you exhale that carry the virus are much, much larger, and are thus easily caught by a mask that you could still smell things through.

 

[Citydude]

Not one bit. Gas molecules that you smell from coffee, farts, etc, are TINY and easily flow through a mask. Droplets that you exhale that carry the virus are much, much larger, and are thus easily caught by a mask that you could still smell things through.

Actually I was asking the question to RSR. But thanks.

 

[MossRoad]

Some people have iny confused with outy.

 

[Citydude]

To further the iny and outy confusion, can the virus be air born on its own or does it have to be on a moisture molecule?

 

[MossRoad]

To further the iny and outy confusion, can the virus be air born on its own or does it have to be on a moisture molecule?

That's a good question.

 

[k0ua]

Here's the same argument applied to you....

If you're going to spout that you live in Texas but won't post your real name and address, you have lost all credibility.

James Baxter
105 Shary Creek Ln.
Branson, Mo. 65616

How is that for cred?

 

[k0ua]

That's a good question.

I don't think anyone has the answer to that for sure at the moment.
Next good question. does having Covid-19 make antibodies in your body. and if so, for how long
Next good question. are there multiple strains of Covid-19?.. If you have antibodies for one, are they effective on another if it exists? And for how long?

I have not seen any definitive answers on any of this.