KAAAAAA - CHING !

[ritcheyvs]

See the photos at this thread:

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/kioti-owning-operating/225273-injector-pump-failure.html#post2578251

Looks like a material/manufacturing problem to me.

 

[PoorMansCat]

The mechanic told me that the california diesel has less lubricants in it to meet California emissions for clean burning fuel. Not sure if other states have the same emissions standards.

yeah, I do not think thats the case... it may ahve been at one time, I dont know... but I doubt its still that way..

The new ULSD fuel is good for modern engines built for use with ULSD. I think since this issue seems MUC H more common with the Kiotis, it would seem that this is a component problem of some sort. Whether its material quality, finished assembly issues, maybe a fuel system thats designed for the high sulfur diesel used in China??.. Sulfur is a wonderful buffer between components moving under pressure (I think their emissions rules are still pretty laxed)

 

[mj007]

yeah, I do not think thats the case... it may ahve been at one time, I dont know... but I doubt its still that way..

The new ULSD fuel is good for modern engines built for use with ULSD. I think since this issue seems MUC H more common with the Kiotis, it would seem that this is a component problem of some sort. Whether its material quality, finished assembly issues, maybe a fuel system thats designed for the high sulfur diesel used in China??.. Sulfur is a wonderful buffer between components moving under pressure (I think their emissions rules are still pretty laxed)

Uhhh ..... since Kiotis are built in South Korea what does Chinese fuel have to do with it?

 

[PoorMansCat]

Uhhh ..... since Kiotis are built in South Korea what does Chinese fuel have to do with it?

hhmm, I thought they were made in China.. oh well, South Korea then...

 

[coobie]

hhmm, I thought they were made in China.. oh well, South Korea then...

OH BOY,another authority on Kioti tractors.coobie

 

[earljr59]

I hate reading of another kioti pump failure at such low hours.Makes me wonder about my 2007 ck25. With under 100 hrs. on it I hate to think of the hassle/expense .Is this as common as it sounds or are there a lot of higher hrs. kiotis still running their original pumps?Does my 2007 have the same crappy pump or is it new enough to have any improved parts? Such a nice tractor to have this type of trouble to mess with.I wonder if the bobcat and mcormick tractors have the same pumps, with issues to come as well.Time will tell.

 

[MotorSeven]

Can we put this in perspective? I have read a handfull of Kioti IP failure threads in over 8 years here. Take in the number of tractors here on this fourm vs those failures and it has to be below 1%. I am guessing the failure rates of the other colors are comparable?

Hands off the panic button..................:laughing:

 

[Gittyup]

Can we put this in perspective? I have read a handfull of Kioti IP failure threads in over 8 years here. Take in the number of tractors here on this fourm vs those failures and it has to be below 1%. I am guessing the failure rates of the other colors are comparable?

Hands off the panic button..................:laughing:

OK. But, how many active members are over the 300 hour mark? It would be interesting to know how many active CK25/27/30/25 owners there are. Without knowing this, and hours and number of failures, it's hard to claim it's above or below 1%.

I would be surprised if there are 300 active owners of these machines on TBN. I read regularly, and have for years. I haven't seen even 100 different posters. And I know I've read about at least 4 pump failures (mine included). This might suggest it's more than 1%. Then there are thousands (I presume) of owners that aren't members here that may or may not have had pump failures.

My understanding is that Kioti recognized that they used an inferior part (too brittle) and made changes to correct this (around 2007 or 08?). So, any CK built with the brittle part is simply a ticking timebomb. For those of us that had it occur in less than 300 hours or so and got Kioti to replace it, we are the lucky ones. Those that haven't had the failure, and may have difficulties getting Kioti to make it right, will be the ones left holding the bag.

I had a similar issue with my JD. JD put a plastic cam gear in the engine. After a few years (~600 - 700 hours was about the magic number for most), they would fail. When this came to light, JD switched to a metal cam in the later models. However, they did nothing for owners with the plastic cam. Mine failed at 998 hours. JD charges like $1200 to do the repair right (replace gear, push rods, water pump, oil pump, governor gear). I did it myself for ~$500. IMO JD should have covered the cam cost plus half the labor, knowing it was an inferior part.

The lesson I take is to avoid new models for at least the first 4 years to see what they are made of.

 

[MotorSeven]

1% is not a claim..it's a guess. My Ck30 had over 300 hrs on it when I traded it in on my DK. Next time I run into town I will ask my dealer how many IP's he has replaced.

 

[DK35vince]

I did a quick search for fuel pump failures.
I saw at least 2 CK 30's, 3 CK 25's, 1 DK 45s, 1 CK 20 and 1 DK 40 reporting this issue on this site.
As far as I could tell most were around the 2006-2008 model year machines.

 

[Turbys_1700]

Been there and done that with my F350 Powerstroke...
Fuel pump went south in 2009...
6 years to the date...
I attribute it to the low sulfur diesel...
I use an additive now...
Don't know if it will help or not...
I don't have any other remedies...
The next time someone tells you that their is no cost in EPA compliance tell them to go jump in a lake...

 

[Gittyup]

1% is not a claim..it's a guess. My Ck30 had over 300 hrs on it when I traded it in on my DK. Next time I run into town I will ask my dealer how many IP's he has replaced.

Motor, not trying to nitpick the exact number. I just wanted to point out that my preception based on what I've seen on here is that it's likely higher than 1%, and that is should not be discounted as an anomaly. Kioti changed the design. That alone says it's significant.

Vince lists 5 CK's in that line has having reported failures. How many members are there on here with that line of tractor? Don't know. And how many actually report it on here? How many members only lurk? It would be interesting to know. Perhaps good statistics for Muhammad to keep and post somewhere: who owns what, posts per member by tractor make, model. A lot of good data here if captured and processed.

 

[MotorSeven]

Motor, not trying to nitpick the exact number. I just wanted to point out that my preception based on what I've seen on here is that it's likely higher than 1%, and that is should not be discounted as an anomaly. Kioti changed the design. That alone says it's significant.

Vince lists 5 CK's in that line has having reported failures. How many members are there on here with that line of tractor? Don't know. And how many actually report it on here? How many members only lurk? It would be interesting to know. Perhaps good statistics for Muhammad to keep and post somewhere: who owns what, posts per member by tractor make, model. A lot of good data here if captured and processed.

GU, I understand what you are saying. I will add this, anyone researching Kioti's is most likely to get directed to TBN via a search engine. It has been my observation that many folks end up here with a problem...lot's of first post tractor issues of all colors. The other colors do out number Kioti by a great margin. If you go to the other sub forums and type in "injector pump failure" you will see quite a few. They seem to fail for a host of reasons, some fuel related/worn out/defective parts. I'm just not convinced that the handful we have heard about or so leads to a known defect...could be. IP's don't last forever, but I expect 4-6,000 hrs out of mine...I may be dreaming. There are a few Kioti's here that have thousands of hours on them, but like you said, capturing that data might be impossible. What it would take would be a specific sub forum set up where owners can enter their tractor info along with a know failure section.

 

[DK35vince]

It looks to me like the problem is mostly occuring on certain year machines.

 

[Dmace]

2005 CK20HST just turned 500 hours. No problems to date and I use Power Service gray bottle in the warm months and Power Service white bottle in the winter months. :thumbsup:

 

[DirtHauler]

Well I just wanted to post an update.........we're back up and running!

Here's the run down; 1 new fuel filter (not the problem)
1 new fuel pump (not the problem)
1 new injector pump (starts and runs fine, won't shut down!)
1 new intake gasket
1 set of pump shims
1 new solenoid guide
$300.00 labor & shop

Drive to dealer (215 mile round trip & day off work)to get injector pump replaced via Kioti if proven OE pump defective. Mechanic not familiar with Kiotis jumps right on it, I was told I couldn't be there to watch because of "insurance" reasons even though it was outside the shop on my trailer (they didn't have a shop manual!).
After a couple of hours I wondered back there to my tractor just see how things were going and was quickly diverted away by the "salesman" to go out back to look at other brand name tractors.....strange! On the way back up front I asked the mechanic how it was going, he said it was done and started it up.....sounded good, he turned the key off and the engine slowly sputtered to a stop......started it and turned it off....same thing!
He said it was a bad solenoid and I should replace it ($220.00)! I asked him if he had removed the plastic solenoid guide before he pulled the pump, he said it was all fine. Well to make a long story short..........after I get it home and start checking things, I discovered that he hadn't removed the guide and had broken the pin off the tip of the guide so the solenoid wasn't able to push the rack back to the shut down position! So a $2.00 part cost me $60.00 w/over night delivery but all is back to "normal" and we're back to work.

Oh and by the way, after several times of asking (secret I guess)........broken teeth on the injector sleeves!...........imagine that and Kioti has NEVER heard of this problem!

 

[MotorSeven]

I'm confused now....so there was never a problem with the IP? It was a solenoid problem?

 

[earljr59]

How much was the parts total ?

 

[Gittyup]

A bad dealer all the way round. A good one sure makes all the difference. I'd be fuming mad.

 

[DirtHauler]

I'm confused now....so there was never a problem with the IP? It was a solenoid problem?

No, it was the IP but because the solenoid guide (made of plastic) was not moved/removed prior to the IP being removed, the "tip" got sheared off when the IP was removed, that in turn prevented the engine from shutting down when the key was turned off. The "mechanic" was trying to convince me that it was a faulty solenoid when I knew it was O.K., wasn't going to shell out $220.00 for a part that I knew was working.