kerosene as diesel fuel?

miles2go · Feb 11, 2006

New owner of L3400 HST 4WD.

I note that the fuel requirements are #1 or #2 diesel. Is #1 diesel the same as kerosene?

We use kerosene for supplemental heat and it would be handy to have a single storage tank for heater and tractor. Are there any downsides to this approach? Thanks!

simonmeridew · Feb 11, 2006

Hi Miles
you would get an exhaustive answer if you look and search in the "Olls, fuel and lubricants" forum under the general forum section of this forum. The short answer to your question is: "It may depend..." as there are regional differences on fuel formulations, and what they are called. In northeast Vermont, No 1 fuel oil is also known as Kerosene, sold to people with outdoor storage tanks for their heating fuel, usually mobile homes. This is NOT quite the same thing as "K-1" kerosene, which apparently is more highly refined and purified, in order to burn cleaner in the Kerosun and other supplimental heaters. There is quite a significant premium price differential between these two kerosenes.
No. 2 fuel oil would often be the same thing as diesel fuel, being dyed red for off road use only. This may or may not be "cut" with kerosene by the distributor or dealer to prevent gelling in our cold climate.
Kerosene reportedly has minimal lubricating properties which diesel engines need for proper operating life. Yes, it will run on it, but maybe not as good for engine as no. 2 fuel.
Bottom line: regional differences may cause fuel differences.
simonmeridew

SteveInMD · Feb 11, 2006

I have a friend who used to work in a refinery lab. He says basically kerosene is the same as diesel, but kerosene has gone through additional refining steps to clean it up more, so that you can use it for indoor heat. The down side of using kerosene for fuel is that it's more expensive.

I'd guess kerosene has very low sulfur content. Some people say sulfur is a lubricant for the fuel system. Others say it isn't, and it's only in fuel as a annoying contaminant that's hard to remove. I believe that latter.

RalphVa · Feb 11, 2006

Kerosene is basically the same as #1 diesel fuel. Think they blend the virgin distilled stuff with the cracked stuff to make the spec differences between kerosene and #1 diesel. Think there's only a pour point spec and maybe another that are different.

Vermonters have blended 1/3 to 1/2 kerosene into #2 diesel for years in the winter time to solve gelling problems.

If you want to blend kerosene into your #2 diesel, just make sure it is #2 and not blended back already with kerosene. You'd have to talk to your #2 supplier to find that out.

On my last 5 gallon can of #2 diesel bought here in Virginia, I put a gallon of kerosene into my fuel tank at one point, at the start of winter. I also use Power Service, too.

Ralph

MadReferee · Feb 11, 2006

Kero is regularly used here in the northeast to cut #2 diesel. Just about every station that sells diesel cuts their underground inventory with kero just before the winter blend becomes available. The usual cut ratio is 60% diesel to 40% kero. When I had my station, I did this every november.

HOGAN · Feb 11, 2006

I think kerosene has a higher cetane rating than #2 diesel, isn't that why they mix it in the winter with diesel, for hotter burn for better cold weather performance up north????? I believe it has less lubricating quality????

J.M.H.

redharley · Feb 11, 2006

Like one of the poster's before mentioned luberacation can be a problem with fuel injection pumps and injectors with straight #1kero.It's ok to use it say 60%-40% but I would not use it straight all of the time.Once in a while if you are close to running out of fuel would be ok.

cp1969 · Feb 12, 2006

(
I think kerosene has a higher cetane rating than #2 diesel, isn't that why they mix it in the winter with diesel, for hotter burn for better cold weather performance up north????? I believe it has less lubricating quality????

J.M.H. )

Kerosene, aka K-1, has no need of a cetane rating and carries none. It's virtual twin, #1 Diesel, does but it's cetane rating is not necessarily any higher than #2 and can be lower. It is blended with #2 for the purpose of lowering the cloud point, nothing more.

People use the term kerosene almost interchangeably with #1 diesel. They are very close to being the same thing (they have overlapping specifications) but not not EXACTLY the same thing, especially since low/high sulfur and on/off road distinctions were added. Since there is no on-road application for kerosene, it is very unlikely that gas stations use it to blend with their #2 diesel--it would be illegal because it meets neither the sulfur or tax requirements. Stations use #1D to blend and it DOES have lubricity requirements so you don't really need to add anything to make up for lost lubricity. However, a lot of people do anyway.

MadReferee · Feb 13, 2006

( Since there is no on-road application for kerosene, it is very unlikely that gas stations use it to blend with their #2 diesel--it would be illegal because it meets neither the sulfur or tax requirements. )

That sir, is/was not true. When I had my station in 1996-1998 I know what I got and know what was paid for. The invoice said Kerosene. The tax issues, if any, were not my concern, it was the distributors and the name brand (Citgo in my case).

Charolais · Feb 13, 2006

I remember many years ago that true Kerosene would be used as diesel fuel but regular motor/engine oil would be added to it. That was back in the days that service stations didn't carry diesel fuel. If a truck driver ran out of fuel he'd use the Kerosene/ engine oil mixture to get it back running and to a truck stop. Those were the days before diesel engine farm tractors were in my area and we cured tobacco with Kerosene. note: in 1955 we paid 6 cent per gal. for Kerosene. I guess I'm old now. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

miles2go · Feb 13, 2006

This discussion has expanded my knowledge. Like many who haven't explored this issue, I assumed that k-1 and #1 diesel were the same thing.

I wonder if the cetane/lubricity concerns about using k-1 couldn't be addressed by using a cetaine booster with lubricants. With my 25-year old diesel car I started using such a booster when California went to low-sulfur diesel in the 1990s. This was the dealer's recommendation, in fact.

The cost difference between k-1 and diesel is not a issue for me in So. Oregon. My initial hope when I started this thread was to have single storage tank that would serve both my kerosene space heater and my tractor -- which would facilitate more rapid turn-over of stored fuel and be more convenient for me.

If I have two storage tanks, the k-1 tank will be unused for 6 months of the year and will be gathering condensation into the fuel. If the fuel can be dual-use, it will stay much fresher.

What do you all think: can an additive turn k-1 into a decent tractor diesel fuel?

LBrown59 · Feb 13, 2006

Around these parts kerosene is 10 to 15 cents more per gallon than diesel so why would i want to use it even if they were the same thing?

CarlGlas · Feb 13, 2006

( New owner of L3400 HST 4WD.

I note that the fuel requirements are #1 or #2 diesel. Is #1 diesel the same as kerosene?

We use kerosene for supplemental heat and it would be handy to have a single storage tank for heater and tractor. Are there any downsides to this approach? Thanks! 

MikePA: Removed copyrighted material.

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More: http://tinyurl.com/2qvbt

Also, interesting article about fuel adulteration.
http://tinyurl.com/9e6j7

CarlGlas · Feb 13, 2006

( Around these parts kerosene is 10 to 15 cents more per gallon than diesel so why would i want to use it even if they were the same thing? )

#2 Diesel (what we use here) is $2.41 a gallon and K-1 sells at Lowes/Home Depot for $30 for a 5 gallon can. I use k-1 in the heater in my chicken house, and thought about using diesel because it's cheaper. But then I had this thought of returning the next morning and finding hundreds of dollars worth of dead chickens lying on the ground and decided that $5 a gallon, while expensive, wasn't that bad. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Next year I think I'll use a wood stove of one that burns corn.

LBrown59 · Feb 16, 2006

K-1 sells at Lowes/Home Depot for $30 for a 5 gallon can. I decided that $5 a gallon, while expensive, wasn't that bad.


 This isn't $5 a gallon,it's $6 a gallon.
I'd say it's real bad considering the gas stations around here sell it for less than 3 bucks a gallon. 

)

CarlGlas · Feb 16, 2006

( K-1 sells at Lowes/Home Depot for $30 for a 5 gallon can. I decided that $5 a gallon, while expensive, wasn't that bad. 

 This isn't $5 a gallon,it's $6 a gallon.
I'd say it's real bad considering the gas stations around here sell it for less than 3 bucks a gallon. 
) )

* * *

Caught that did you. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I rounded it off to the next higher number because of sales tax. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

I guess it's like the price per gallon for gasoline. .38 cents of the price of every gallon is tax.

LBrown59 · Apr 27, 2006

I canceled this post

SkyPup · Apr 27, 2006

I think kerosene has a higher cetane rating than #2 diesel, isn't that why they mix it in the winter with diesel, for hotter burn for better cold weather performance up north????? I believe it has less lubricating quality???? 

In fact it is 100% the opposite, kerosene has a much lower cetane rating that #2 diesel, which is why when you mix it with #2 diesel to create winterized #1 diesel the cetane is lowered.......

You are correct in believing that kersoene has less lubricating quality than #2 diesel, that is why when you run kero in your diesel engine, yourcomplete fuel injection system is destroyed.

rdln · Apr 27, 2006

Interesting, the other morning the morning radio guy and traffic helicopter guy were talking about fuel prices. The piolt said he burns 22-23 gallons of kerosene an hour. Do all choppers use this?

midlf · Apr 28, 2006

Gasoline engine choppers use av gas. Turbine powered ones use jet fuel, which is a high class kero. I suspect the FAA would frown on someone running true kero in an aircraft.