Kioti DK40SE HST starting problem

[ritcheyvs]

Check the spade connector at the back of the glow plug bus for good contact. Mine got lose.
Also, another of the contacts on that glow relay connector should always have 12v; did it?

There are two modes for the glow relay:
-The glow relay should be powered when the key is in the GLOW position.
-But also, the glow relay should be powered for (about) 15 sec immediately when the key is turned to ON providing the engine temp is below 60C. The glow light should go off after 8 sec (of the 15 sec) indicating it's OK to crank as soon as the glow light goes out.

I believe the SE models are almost identical to EX models. You should find some useful technical data here: 83.26.2.45 - /ftp/eclates pieces/KIOTI/GAMME EX/MANUEL ATELIER/

 

[Typhoon]

Ok, this gives me some things to check. Let me add this: There is a connector (spade connector that snaps together, black) right before the glow plugs. I took it apart, and tested there. Not getting any voltage there when key switch is turned to preheat. I thought maybe that connector had oxidized or something, but nope.. no voltage there. Then from there, there is just a 4 or 5 inch wire that goes right to the first glow plug. By the way, as I am troublshooting all of these connections, I am putting a little no-ox paste on the terminals, ensuring reliable connection in the future. So since the relay is pulling in, where does the power go from there?

 

[k0ua]

Ok, this gives me some things to check. Let me add this: There is a connector (spade connector that snaps together, black) right before the glow plugs. I took it apart, and tested there. Not getting any voltage there when key switch is turned to preheat. I thought maybe that connector had oxidized or something, but nope.. no voltage there. Then from there, there is just a 4 or 5 inch wire that goes right to the first glow plug. By the way, as I am troublshooting all of these connections, I am putting a little no-ox paste on the terminals, ensuring reliable connection in the future. So since the relay is pulling in, where does the power go from there?

The power comes from the battery buss on the orange 5mm wire and thru the relay contacts and exits on the orange/brown 5mm diameter wire and heads towards the glow plugs. Do you understand what a relay is and what its purpose is? There is no shame in asking question you don't know the answers to. We are here to help. The no ox paste seems like a good idea. As for exactly how the power wiring is done and what connectors are along the way, I can't help with that. You will just need to investigate and discover that.

 

[Bavarian]

You're almost there.
Since you don't have power on the thick cable from the relay to the glow plugs, you need to check if you get power to the relay on the other thick cable.
Like I assumed on my previous post, there might be a high amp fuse in the supply. Just follow that thick wire from the relay backwards. You may end up at the fuse panel or at the battery.

Absolute top notch idea to put contact grease in those connections.

 

[Typhoon]

Ok guys thanks again. I will trace power backwards, maybe it is a fuse or something. I will post my results on here when I figure it out.

 

[k0ua]

Ok guys thanks again. I will trace power backwards, maybe it is a fuse or something. I will post my results on here when I figure it out.

Think loose intermittent connection or the replacement relay is intermittent in making its contacts. A fuse goes open and that is it, not intermittent.

 

[ritcheyvs]

The EX schematic shows this relay being fed directly from the 60 amp master fuse (the one in the wiring harness near the starter). Another thought, if the new relay was not designed to handle the high glow current that relay wouldn't last long.

 

[k0ua]

The EX schematic shows this relay being fed directly from the 60 amp master fuse (the one in the wiring harness near the starter). Another thought, if the new relay was not designed to handle the high glow current that relay wouldn't last long.

Yes, the original relay is rated for 70 amps on the contacts.

 

[Typhoon]

Ok..... I worked on the tractor for a bit this evening. Here is what I found, and I apologize if it contradicts anything I said before. When the glow plug relay is energized, the glow plugs heat up. Initially I thought the prob was between the relay and plugs, but its not. The problem, is that the relay is only getting energized about once every 5 times that I start the tractor. Temp outside while doing this was 25 deg. So, whatever tells that relay to pull in is the problem. Im open for ideas. The glow plug lamp comes on and shuts off as it should, which probably means nothing.

 

[ritcheyvs]

Ok..... I worked on the tractor for a bit this evening. Here is what I found, and I apologize if it contradicts anything I said before. When the glow plug relay is energized, the glow plugs heat up. Initially I thought the prob was between the relay and plugs, but its not. The problem, is that the relay is only getting energized about once every 5 times that I start the tractor. Temp outside while doing this was 25 deg. So, whatever tells that relay to pull in is the problem. Im open for ideas. The glow plug lamp comes on and shuts off as it should, which probably means nothing.

As I mentioned in post #21, there are two modes (with separate circuits to the display unit) for the glow relay: Key in ON (auto mode) and Key in GLOW (manual mode). Does this intermittent problem occur in both modes or only one (e.g. ON/auto)? Both of these modes work through the display unit which provides the current to energize the relay. The dash light is somewhat independent from the current to the relay but it too is controlled by the display unit. So if the dash lamp is lighting but the glow plugs don't get power, the likely suspects are the display unit and the relay (or the wire between them).

I think you need to test the coil voltage at the relay connector (maybe stick a pin through the small wire insulation as a test point) to determine if you see zero volts when the glow plugs don't work and 12v when they do. If that checks good, do the same thing with the other (small) coil wire at the connector; that wire is ground and should always reed zero but if there is a bad ground it would show a voltage higher than zero. This will help sort out whether the display unit (or wiring) is failing to provide the signal to the relay coil or if the relay is intermittent.

 

[Bavarian]

What about Temp sensor and/or wiring to and from it?

 

[Typhoon]

Where is the temp sensor?

 

[k0ua]

Where is the temp sensor?

I think it is just above the alternator on the engines left side

 

[k0ua]

Maybe this will help

 

[Typhoon]

Ok, here is a little more info. I am embarrassed to say that as long as I have owned my tractor, I had no idea that there was a manual preheat on the ignition switch. With that being said, I went out just now and tried it. I used the manual preheat and it worked perfectly 10 out of 10 times. So, now we are narrowed down to the auto preheat mode. When I turned the ignition to manual preheat, the relay pulled in every time, and the tractor started instantly. So, wouldn't it be ok to just leave it alone at this point and just always manually preheat??

 

[k0ua]

Ok, here is a little more info. I am embarrassed to say that as long as I have owned my tractor, I had no idea that there was a manual preheat on the ignition switch. With that being said, I went out just now and tried it. I used the manual preheat and it worked perfectly 10 out of 10 times. So, now we are narrowed down to the auto preheat mode. When I turned the ignition to manual preheat, the relay pulled in every time, and the tractor started instantly. So, wouldn't it be ok to just leave it alone at this point and just always manually preheat??

Up to you, but I can't think of any harm in doing that.

 

[ritcheyvs]

... So, wouldn't it be ok to just leave it alone at this point and just always manually preheat??

Shouldn't hurt anything.

Bavarian might be right; the problem could well be a bad (or disconnected) temp sensor. That would tell the display unit that the engine was already at operating temperature and pre-glow is not needed. But I would not expect the instrument panel glow light to come on if that was the case.

 

[k0ua]

Shouldn't hurt anything.

Bavarian might be right; the problem could well be a bad (or disconnected) temp sensor. That would tell the display unit that the engine was already at operating temperature and pre-glow is not needed. But I would not expect the instrument panel glow light to come on if that was the case.

Yeah, it is looking more and more like the problem might be the display unit or connections to it.

 

[Typhoon]

I will inspect those connections.

 

[DieselBound]

I'd think that if you unplugged the temperature sensor that it should then engage the GPs automatically (as normal). That's how it works for VW TDIs: the computer falls back to a default value, which is that of a cold engine. At any rate, test the sensor (easy enough); pretty good chance that that's the culprit (if not it, then wiring).