Kioti = Heavy!

KiotiJohn · May 12, 2004

( Historically I have heard many complaints on the NH, and Fords compacts of the tractor splitting in two after backhoe use. )
You are right botaguy, that's why Kioti will not warranty the use of a 3ph BH. As most people know, cast iron can crack from that kind of stress. That problem is overcome with a subframe BH. I had an 8n, so I know to what you speak. The ladder frame of the Kubota is a good design, and I believe it's the BX series where the MMM can be used as well as the BH. There was a big thread about that a while back. The CK20 Loader serves as part of the mount for the BH, precluding the use of the MMM and BH at the same time. Of course, if one were to use the BH infrequently, it's not that big a deal to change out the mounts and then use the MMM, but that's another thread. John

Jim_in_Omaha · May 13, 2004

I made this subframe for my used backhoe I found. Regardless of what compact tractor I would not want to mount something like this hoe on the 3 point. Even with a fixed top link to hold it down on a 3 point setup there would be tremendous stress on the link arms. This thing will lift the back of the tractor up without much effort and my tires are filled.

Jim

MJB · May 13, 2004

Last I read, I believe Muhammad verified that the weight shown on the Kubotas is the shipping weight from Japan. This weight does not include wheels, tires, seat, ROPS, or any fluids and maybe some other stuff. It is entirely possible that the Kubota all fitted out ready to work actually weighs more than the Kioti. If anyone has any more recent information in regards to this please post.

Knight9 · May 13, 2004

Every tractor purchased by an individual is ultimately the result of a rationalization of the trade offs and planned useage. Some folks want to mow, others don't. Some need a powerful FEL, others use their FEL sparingly. In my opinion, any CUT will have some trade offs. Ladder frame, cast iron, shipping weight, rear mower - mid mower, R1s - turfs....I mean come on! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Ultimately you have to pick what you feel will be right for your situation. I chose a Kubota B2410. Kioti was never in the running not because I feel the tractor is inferior, just that there were zero dealers in my area at all. I'm happy with my CUT. The mower cut is pretty good. The FEL lifts enough for me. The 3PH has never complained.

Would I be equally as happy with a NH or JD or Kioti? Probably. In my opinion, the differences are pretty minimal when it comes to the average user.

Just my $0.02. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Kevin

MessickFarmEqu · May 13, 2004

At one time that may have been true, now its not the case.

shoppintractors · May 13, 2004

BillG in TX recently emailed Kubota about shipping weights.

I e-mailed Kubota today and asked this question:

"Are the tractor weights in the specifications "crated" weights,
or do they include the standard wheels, tires and fluids?"

- and received this reply (in less than 4 hrs!):

From: <compacttractors-implements@kubota.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2004 1:36 PM
Subject: Re: Kubota Contact Sub Compact/Compact Tractors

"They are assembled weights (tires & wheels) dry."

Bill

Markioti · May 13, 2004

I currently own a 1948 Ford 8N and a 1958 John Deere 420I. The 8N has seen a lot of rough service (judging from the numerous welds on the lift arms) by previous owners. Personally I've had the front tires about 3' in the air trying to pull too much weight with it. The same goes for the JD. Both of these tractors have the all casting type of frame ie the engine and transmission make the frame. There are no welds on any of the castings on either machine. Both tractors have withstood a lot of abuse AND the test of time. They both have around the same horsepower (20-23). I use the 8N to plow snow because it is faster in reverse and I don't need tire chains. If I need to pull something very heavy I use the John Deere. It has wider tires and it's HEAVIER. Both tractors are useful for different tasks.

Mark

DK35vince · May 13, 2004

Sounds like a good design to me.

DK35vince · May 13, 2004

Jim,
That is a real nice job you did on that subframe.
Heavy duty and looks good.

KiotiJohn · May 14, 2004

( I made this subframe for my used backhoe I found. )
Great job on that subframe Jim. I suppose you saved a lot of money getting the tractor backhoed. I saw the other post with the BH and it looks excellent. John

Jim_in_Omaha · May 14, 2004

Thanks Vince and John,
We'll see Saturday if that Chinese hoe can hoe. Hope it don't break my Kioti in half /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Jim

krazykioti · May 15, 2004

I just read a post by brg in the NH/Ford post. Under the posting of topic ( major failure).Evidentley his TC33D split in half while using his fel and not a bh. His fel was a NH brand!
Possibly this is a problem that applies to New Holland. This kind of ads a new twist to this issue. I do not believe this will be an issue with Kioti because there has not been any postings relating to this type of problem. It sounds like a design flaw with the thickness of the flanges on the castings.

Charlie

MessickFarmEqu · May 15, 2004

Its not unique to New Holland, nor is it unique to that configeration. We have seen it happen with all brands of tractors at one time or another. Most of the time its when someone is running with a 3pt backhoe and loader, but all you really need to do is torque the chasis enough and it will happen.

krazykioti · May 15, 2004

Neil,
I have a DK45 with a woods fel. After learning about this problem, should I stay away from mounting a bh on my tractor? Also when I brush hog with my tractor should i remove the fel before use? This has me rather concerned because I bought this tractor to be used for a second income.
If i have to remove the fel every time I use the 3ph this will be a real pain.
Charlie

krazykioti · May 15, 2004

Neil.
I just talked to my dealer at Greenhill Farms .I asked him about this issue. He told me that both Cub Cadet & New Holland have a well known problem of splitting in half with some of their models. He also told me that New Holland will void the warranty on certain models if you mount a bh.
I asked him if I need to be concerned about this happening with my DK45. He told me that my tractor is built strong enough that this will not happen, and that I do not need to worry!

Charlie

RedDog · May 15, 2004

Krazykioti,

No to both questions. You will be just fine.

RedDog

JayC · May 15, 2004

3PH backhoes are very hard on CUTs. Because there is no support for the hoe itself, any stress is exerted on the tractor frame. Subframe mount backhoes are best suited for CUTs. Any stress is exerted on the subframe which mounts underneath the tractor.

Now, John Deere uses what looks like 3PH hoes for their 4000 Ten series (4210-4710). These are NOT 3PH, but rather what they call rockshaft assist. The frame of the tractor is beefed up to support the hoe. This system allows the hoe to be taken on and off effortlessly in a short amount of time. A MMM can be used with the backhoe attached to the machine.

KiotiJohn · May 15, 2004

( I have a DK45 with a woods fel. After learning about this problem, should I stay away from mounting a bh on my tractor? )
Hey Krazy. Neil is not a Kioti Dealer, he sells NH and Kubota.
There is absolutely no reason for you to worry about putting a BH on your Kioti. The BH will have a subframe mount, not 3pt. hitch attachment so most of the stress will be transmitted to the subframe. Of course, anyone must be prudent about how he/she uses the loader. Overstressing the loader by using it improperly can lead to damages of all kinds. Just try not to do a lot of lift bang by lifting the tractor off the ground while digging with the loader. You should have no problems. John

MessickFarmEqu · May 16, 2004

KiotiJohn Hit it on the head, just use your equipment properly and you will not have a problem. Also like he said I deal with NH and Kubota, I have never heard anything about them voiding the warrenty with certian mounts. I will say that we are very hesident to sell a tractor without a subframe mount. Not only because of the strengh issue but because its much more ridgid than a 3pt. Lesson is A - use a subframe unless you have CAT 2 3pt, and B - be smart with the way you use your machine.