Kioti Isn't Worth the Risk

[marrt]

Re: Kioti Isn\'t Worth the Risk

Oh, and I forgot to mention that, from what I have seen, Kioti does not offer a MMM. At least they don't push it because I didn't see ANY Kioti tractors with MMM's.

My intention was never to criticize Kioti product. Instead, I’m criticizing the Kioti Marketing Department. I just don't understand why Kioti doesn't give consumers what they want (as evidenced by the success of Kubota, Boomer, and 4x10 CUT’s)...like a high quality dealer network, HST, MMMs, etc... Any one of these deficiencies will drive away a percentage of potential buyers. In total, they severely restrict the total available market for Kioti product.

If they would address these issues, the “resale risk problem" would take care of itself and Kioti would capture market share from their competitors. In short, I’m kinda mad and disappointed in Kioti’s current strategy. They seem to have a tremendous potential, as evidenced by their satisfied owners, that is being underutilized due a limited product offering and questionable dealer network. In a way, its sad to see.

 

[ByuBill]

Re: Kioti Isn\'t Worth the Risk

Ranchman
Thanks for jumping in and sticking up for the Kioti owners. I am not a die hard Kioti fan, I just own one and really like it. Wasn't even looking for a tractor when I bought it. I already had two. Now I have three. One acre on the side of a mountain with barely enough room to turn around. I own three tractors. Why ?? Because I can. I also jump in and open my mouth at times when I shouldn't. I can get sarcastic at times but try to practice my 'focus' skills. Mostly on TBN the little brand and color cuts are all in fun. I also have noticed lately that some people are getting serious about the brand of tractor they own. It matters not to me what brand 'color' that anyone owns. It is their choice and their money(or the banks) that bought it. I was looking at the new Mahindras' when I ran across the Kioti. I suppose when certain people get tired of picking on Kioti, Mahindra will be next. I will also jump in and defend Mahindra. Since they are the fourth largest tractor manufactuer in the world. Maybe third by now. Their goal is to become #1 very soon.
So, I'm not a die hard Kioti, Long or MF fan. I like them all the same. They all have their good and bad points. I do own one of each and don't even 'need' a tractor. If I find a good deal on another one, I might own 4. Next one maybe even be a Kubota, who knows. BTW the p-up that I still drive is a 1982 Ford F-150 2wd. I'm don't think about resale value when I buy something because I'm not in the selling business. I tend to keep things until they fall apart.
To some Kioti may not be worth the risk. To me, I don't see the risk. I guess that I might look at things differently. If I wanted one of those strange looking rice planters to play with, I would buy one. Because 'I' wanted it, not because someone else thought that I should get one. My choice, my money, my tractor. Not the banks or anyone else. All mine.
Ok, enough of all this.
Have a wonderful day.

 

[Egon]

Re: Kioti Isn\'t Worth the Risk

Bill:

I figure that if you are paying for it your allowed to sit on any colour you want or drive the vehicle of your choice as long it is in accordance with " She who must be obeyed "

Egon

 

[ByuBill]

Re: Kioti Isn\'t Worth the Risk

<font color=blue>" She who must be obeyed "
</font color=blue>

' Agreed '

 

[Tractor_Barn]

Re: Kioti Isn\'t Worth the Risk

I grew up farming and remained connected to the farm while I explored other career options (25 years computer support). Now that I'm back to farming, I've noticed that resale value has become a major part of the buying decision. My brother is still using the same tractors that we were using before our dad retired and they're working fine. I will admit, they're larger ag tractors but I have added using compacts on my farm because of their lower fuel comsumption.

When looking at compacts a year ago, I about had a stroke over the prices. I had no brand loyalty and resale value wasn't even a consideration. I want a tractor to work and have little regard for resale value. I do have a brand loyalty now but, thats another story.

Just my 2 cents.
Vince

 

[Tscott]

Re: Kioti Isn\'t Worth the Risk

Well, After reading all the comments regarding this subject i feel that i must add my two or three cents. I would be completely happy owning most any of the various breeds of tractors. I've always loved JD's. used to own an old "A" model with a hand clutch. Also spent a lot of time using an early eighties model Kubota and enjoyed how smooth and efficient it was to operate.During the days i spent working for a neighboring farmer I became very fond of fords, 3000,5000 and 7000 series as well as an old 8n, massey harris and and david brown. Used a 30hp 4x4 hydro cub cadet for a couple weeks that a friend of mine owns and I seriously considered buying one. The style and looks of the boomers are the most appealing to me and I really, really wanted a TC35, I think its the loader style and fender mounted controls I like best. Rented a JD hydro 4000 series a few times and became very spoiled with the hydro's easy operation. When all the dust settled, I bought a DK 35. Why? The Dealer,the price, the quality, the overall value that i felt i was getting. It all comes down to a balance of wants, needs,budget and comfort. I think its good that we have so many choices. I dont see any real risk involved with any of the manufacturers.

 

[marrt]

Re: Kioti Isn\'t Worth the Risk

You are right. It really comes down to needs. Many folks, like me, really just need a big lawn mower that will do some tractor stuff occasionally. For this market, the Kubota’s are perfect with their hydrostatic drives, MMMs on all CUT models, and “pride of ownership” reputation. After all, if you are going to spend $15K+ for a lawn mower, then you need something to justify the purchase and reputation and a good resale market helps get you over the hump (“honey, this thing will last us a lifetime and I can always sell it 10 years from now for almost what I paid for it”).

On the other hand, there are folks who need a tractor to do “tractor work”. They don’t necessarily need or want an MMM or HST. This market is perfect for Kioti. One evidence of how competitive this market is can be found in Kubota’s current pricing of the 3x10 series. One can buy a 3x10 for almost the same price as a B 2x10, even though the 3x10 is clearly much more tractor. I think this is because the 3x10 series competes in the “tractor” market, where there is a lot of competition, and the 2x10 competes in the “big lawn mower” market where, arguably, Kubota has limited competition. This may also explain why you can’t a new DK with less than 35HP.

 

[RobertN]

Re: Kioti Isn\'t Worth the Risk

<font color=red>As for the 3-point lift capacities, there are any number of ways and positions that can be measured. I'd like to see an objective test between the two to see if the Kioti's is really stronger. You know what they say about figures and liars. </font color=red>

<font color=blue>A "real world" test would definitely be interesting, but until someone (who is non-biased) actually has a "tractor shootout", we'll have to rely on the mfgs. The data I've seen from both mfgs. (Kubota & Kioti) measures 3 point lift capacity as "Lift Capacity at Lift Point". (same verbiage from both mfgs.) While the old adage of "statistics are the best way to lie" is well known, I find it interesting that your implication is that Kioti is somehow "fudging the numbers." Could be - but - could be the same for Kubota as well. I just don't care for the implied dig.</font color=blue>

This is why the Nebraska tests were developed years and years ago. A number of manufacturers made great claims, but no one sould substantiate them. That's where they tested my Farmall A, to decide how many PTO hp, and drawbar HP it had.

It's interesting that now days wee look at PTO hp and engine HP, but now drawbar. It's also interesting that there's no independant testing of these numbers. None of the smaller imports have ever done Nebraska tests.

In order to really compare tractors, that kind of standard testing would need to be used.

 

[JATO_RaT]

Re: Kioti Isn\'t Worth the Risk

marrt, I read your comment, and I must agree. As far as HST goes, both Kubota and now John Deere offer a compact loader/backhoe in HST only versions, the L 48 and 110 respectively. I suppose the main reason for this is they figure a great deal of the work they will do is loader type work although both have PTO's ( which I use extensively). While I did not purchase the hoe with mine, I did want as much loader as I could get in a compact and still have HST. After using HST for a little over 100 hours, I can see why the engineers have decided on HST. The speed with which I can load, dump and manuver simply can not be touched by the manuals be they shuttle shift or standard. Now that may not be "tractor work", but it is work being done by a tractor in about as fast a way as todays tractors can do it respective of size. Why, how do I know this, simple, I use industrial and compact tractors as part of having worked for construction companies, so I guess I have a little experience. The HST is faster, by a considerable margin. I suppose where the HST would be a drawback is in crop or farming where an exact speed would be mandatory, of course, the implement being used would have to be matched so as not to load the engine thus slowing down the tractor. Out here in CA. I have yet to see a farmer using a compact to do just such a thing as they typically use large JD's. I suppose there are some that could, I just have not seen it. Often I do see a smaller compact or midsize tractors on farms with a loader. Great comments, Rat...

 

[JohnMiller3]

Re: Kioti Isn\'t Worth the Risk

<font color=blue>...In order to really compare tractors...</font color=blue>

Hi Robert,

I have some tractor tests (we can actually go back to 1920 on basically every tractor tested in Nebraska & then some...) ... give me an example of what units you would like to compare against one another and I'll try to oblige with posting the tests that are available...

In the US (Nebraska Test Station), compacts are not tested as the Ag's are... but compacts are tested overseas...