MessickFarmEqu
Super Member
I'd find another dealer. Thats simply unacceptable unless they explained this to you up front. There are alot of other places you can go where they intend to charge a fair price rather than suck every dollar from you.
kioti warranty
- Thread starter headachers
- Start date
- Views: 15575
Yeah, we as dealers have to understand that sometimes "flat rate" will not equal "profit" for the dealership. Money can be made on warranty work, but all cases are not equal. The only thing I charge my customers with for warranty work is pick up and delivery. I tell them that the first pick up and delivery I will swallow but the second one is on them, and if they understand that from the start there are never any problems. We can't afford to run a 60K roll back & one employee down the road for free.
I have a tractor in the shop right now that is broke into two pieces and the damage is the customers fault, but FarmTrac has agreed to pay for it! FarmTrac has always helped us and my customers out with warranty, Kioti has too. I am even going to fix the tractor so this "accident" won't happen again...and that will be out of my pocket.
What really bothers me with this whole situation is that we are only talking about $75.00. As a dealer $75.00 is not enough to even worry about, much less pick a fight over! Now if we were talking about $575.00 I could understand, but gosh what is $75.00 in the long run? Especially if you treat the customer good, give him good service, he will be back in...mainly because you are the only game in town!
You should not have to pay the $75.00. I would call your dealer and ask him for the phone number of Kioti's sales rep in your area and see what he thinks of the situation.
I have a tractor in the shop right now that is broke into two pieces and the damage is the customers fault, but FarmTrac has agreed to pay for it! FarmTrac has always helped us and my customers out with warranty, Kioti has too. I am even going to fix the tractor so this "accident" won't happen again...and that will be out of my pocket.
What really bothers me with this whole situation is that we are only talking about $75.00. As a dealer $75.00 is not enough to even worry about, much less pick a fight over! Now if we were talking about $575.00 I could understand, but gosh what is $75.00 in the long run? Especially if you treat the customer good, give him good service, he will be back in...mainly because you are the only game in town!
You should not have to pay the $75.00. I would call your dealer and ask him for the phone number of Kioti's sales rep in your area and see what he thinks of the situation.
bncsauve
Silver Member
In my opinion, Kioti is reponsible for backing up their warranty. How they deal with their dealers is their problem. If you notice, you can't buy parts directly from Kioti, but only through their approved dealer network. By approving their dealer network (read monopoly) they assume some level of responsibility for the performance of that network. I would expect that Kioti should be responsible for the difference with their remedy being to remove that dealer from their network.
wallace
Veteran Member, Approved Advertiser
Okay, I did not not want to get involved here but I can not stand it anymore. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
First off this matter DOES NOT DOES NOT have anything to do with Kioti.
Kioti does pay dealers troubleshooting time, if this dealer put down it took him 3 hours and he only got paid for 1 buy Kioti o-well next time he will know what is going on.
I am not the smartest out here but I will tell you this, if one of my guys or myself ran into a issue that we were unsure of instead of waisting time I am not proud I will pickup the phone and give the manufacture a call.
We also call just to see if this has been a issue, because keep in mind they deal with stuff like this every day.
Now I don't want to start a war here but Headackers if you priced shoped was this dealer involved?
Maybe the dealer is a little sour over this.
Well anyhow the damage is done or fixed I should say and a lesson learned about a dealer. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
The only thing I have left to say is.... This is not a problem for KIOTI this is a problem between Headaker and his maybe new dealer.
First off this matter DOES NOT DOES NOT have anything to do with Kioti.
Kioti does pay dealers troubleshooting time, if this dealer put down it took him 3 hours and he only got paid for 1 buy Kioti o-well next time he will know what is going on.
I am not the smartest out here but I will tell you this, if one of my guys or myself ran into a issue that we were unsure of instead of waisting time I am not proud I will pickup the phone and give the manufacture a call.
We also call just to see if this has been a issue, because keep in mind they deal with stuff like this every day.
Now I don't want to start a war here but Headackers if you priced shoped was this dealer involved?
Maybe the dealer is a little sour over this.
Well anyhow the damage is done or fixed I should say and a lesson learned about a dealer. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
The only thing I have left to say is.... This is not a problem for KIOTI this is a problem between Headaker and his maybe new dealer.
bluechip
Veteran Member
We have seen our Kioti sales grow during our first two years as a dealer, and I think the brand has great promise to continue to grow. Two years ago I had people stopping to look at tractors thinking they were some other orange brand because they never heard of Kioti, now people come by specifically looking for Kiotis.
It is true that any manufactures flat rate book is going to seem very unfair to the dealer at times. some of the times I see in there just don't seem possible at all, BUT I would never dream of billing a cusomter, other than for transport and with some manufactures, oils, etc. The reason flat rate exists is to equalize the playing feild for level of mechanic (sorry technicians) skill level. If a guy does a job (complete, diagnose,etc) and it takes him three times as long, he is only worth 1/3 the hourly rate, if he does it in twice the time, his is worth double! Sounds like this guy is trying to get double when he is worth half.
We have only had a very few warranty issues on kiotis and feel we are treated adequately. But even on non warranty work, I don't charge for too much "head scratching" time its my job to know, or have people to know what they are doing.
Kioti will have to raise the bar on dealer conduct standards if they want to get to the next level. If this dealer isn't happy with Kiotis warranty policy, he has to make a business decision wether he wants to stay a dealer.
This type of action reflects bad on the entire network, I hope those reading realize that not all Kioti dealers operate in this manner.
Even as a dealer, I say Kioti has a responsibility here and that is to maintain an acceptable code of business practices for all Kioti dealers, But at the same time must provide a fair warranty program.
I am located in a buyer's market when it comes to tractors, and I leave no money in the deal to subsidize warranty work. The warranty should be adequate to cover the costs and overhead of the job. This way it doesn't matter where a tractor is purchased, a customer will get good service by any branded dealer.
wow. gotta stop, cant solve all the worlds problems in one post /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
It is true that any manufactures flat rate book is going to seem very unfair to the dealer at times. some of the times I see in there just don't seem possible at all, BUT I would never dream of billing a cusomter, other than for transport and with some manufactures, oils, etc. The reason flat rate exists is to equalize the playing feild for level of mechanic (sorry technicians) skill level. If a guy does a job (complete, diagnose,etc) and it takes him three times as long, he is only worth 1/3 the hourly rate, if he does it in twice the time, his is worth double! Sounds like this guy is trying to get double when he is worth half.
We have only had a very few warranty issues on kiotis and feel we are treated adequately. But even on non warranty work, I don't charge for too much "head scratching" time its my job to know, or have people to know what they are doing.
Kioti will have to raise the bar on dealer conduct standards if they want to get to the next level. If this dealer isn't happy with Kiotis warranty policy, he has to make a business decision wether he wants to stay a dealer.
This type of action reflects bad on the entire network, I hope those reading realize that not all Kioti dealers operate in this manner.
Even as a dealer, I say Kioti has a responsibility here and that is to maintain an acceptable code of business practices for all Kioti dealers, But at the same time must provide a fair warranty program.
I am located in a buyer's market when it comes to tractors, and I leave no money in the deal to subsidize warranty work. The warranty should be adequate to cover the costs and overhead of the job. This way it doesn't matter where a tractor is purchased, a customer will get good service by any branded dealer.
wow. gotta stop, cant solve all the worlds problems in one post /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Dargo
Super Member
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2004
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- 5,981
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- S. IN
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- Jinma, Foton, TYM, Belarus, Yanmar, Branson, Montana, Mahindra and maybe some green and orange too.
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The only thing I have left to say is.... This is not a problem for KIOTI)</font>
It's not?! If the customer called the manufacturer and the manufacturer brushed them aside and told them that it is just an issue with the dealer, there is certainly a problem. Every manufacturer that grants a franchise that I am aware of would certainly be concerned about how their customers are treated by their dealers! You want to talk about killing a reputation, just let the little roadside dealers tick off your customers. That is a problem. By reading on this site, there is already a perception issue since Kioto has in the past been somewhat less than selective on who they will franchise. If you don't think customers who get shafted won't talk to other people... Whether they technically are right or wrong, haven't you ever heard that the customer is always right? I think saying that "This is not a problem for KIOTI" just shows a fundamental failure to grasp the real issue here.
One of my business partners was a franchising agent for Ford for almost 20 years. Besides the obvious, one of the biggest issues to approving a franchise application was how the prospective dealer was going to treat Ford's customers. Yes, Ford's customers. When you sell a new Ford, you represent Ford Motor Company. The same would hold true for dealers who sell new tractors. They represent the tractor manufacturer. I know that all auto manufacturers and most larger tractor manufacturers closely watch their CSI (customer satisfaction index). If a dealer allows that to drop too much, there will be all sorts of sanctions and could ultimately result in a franchise being pulled. Kioti makes way too nice of a tractor to have jerkwater dealers short change them and kill their reputation. Customer issues like this most certainly is a problem for them. Some people just flat do not need to be a dealer for them if they intend to continue their growth pattern. As someone else mentioned, just call the regional Kioti sales manager and ask him about the situation. I'd be willing to bet that he doesn't just brush it under the rug and say that it's not his problem.
As a business owner, I realize that I can't make money on every single thing I do. It would be nice to do so, but it is irrational to even think I will. My reputation is much more important to me than $75. I wouldn't consider such a thing. As a matter of fact, I love it when someone competing with me makes such a bonehead decision. Their customers soon become my customers. Unless you are in a very unique business, others will be offering the same thing you offer. Your service and reputation is the only thing in the long run that makes you different. Every one of my people know that is how I run my operation. Therefore, every one of my customers know that is how I run my operation. If his dealer is hitting him up for $75, I personally think it is a bad business decision and I wouldn't bet on that dealer being in business over the long haul. My opinion is that is a bad decision on his dealer's part. But to say that it isn't a problem for the manufacturer, that would just be incorrect.
* I just saw bluechip's post. That is exactly what I'm talking about. He is a dealer who sees things exactly the way I do. He is a dealer that I would do business with. Not because of any one particular issue, but because of how he sees the importance of reputation for both the dealer and manufacturer. Not everybody can be a dealer for a first class manufacturer. Some apparently need to be culled from the network.
It's not?! If the customer called the manufacturer and the manufacturer brushed them aside and told them that it is just an issue with the dealer, there is certainly a problem. Every manufacturer that grants a franchise that I am aware of would certainly be concerned about how their customers are treated by their dealers! You want to talk about killing a reputation, just let the little roadside dealers tick off your customers. That is a problem. By reading on this site, there is already a perception issue since Kioto has in the past been somewhat less than selective on who they will franchise. If you don't think customers who get shafted won't talk to other people... Whether they technically are right or wrong, haven't you ever heard that the customer is always right? I think saying that "This is not a problem for KIOTI" just shows a fundamental failure to grasp the real issue here.
One of my business partners was a franchising agent for Ford for almost 20 years. Besides the obvious, one of the biggest issues to approving a franchise application was how the prospective dealer was going to treat Ford's customers. Yes, Ford's customers. When you sell a new Ford, you represent Ford Motor Company. The same would hold true for dealers who sell new tractors. They represent the tractor manufacturer. I know that all auto manufacturers and most larger tractor manufacturers closely watch their CSI (customer satisfaction index). If a dealer allows that to drop too much, there will be all sorts of sanctions and could ultimately result in a franchise being pulled. Kioti makes way too nice of a tractor to have jerkwater dealers short change them and kill their reputation. Customer issues like this most certainly is a problem for them. Some people just flat do not need to be a dealer for them if they intend to continue their growth pattern. As someone else mentioned, just call the regional Kioti sales manager and ask him about the situation. I'd be willing to bet that he doesn't just brush it under the rug and say that it's not his problem.
As a business owner, I realize that I can't make money on every single thing I do. It would be nice to do so, but it is irrational to even think I will. My reputation is much more important to me than $75. I wouldn't consider such a thing. As a matter of fact, I love it when someone competing with me makes such a bonehead decision. Their customers soon become my customers. Unless you are in a very unique business, others will be offering the same thing you offer. Your service and reputation is the only thing in the long run that makes you different. Every one of my people know that is how I run my operation. Therefore, every one of my customers know that is how I run my operation. If his dealer is hitting him up for $75, I personally think it is a bad business decision and I wouldn't bet on that dealer being in business over the long haul. My opinion is that is a bad decision on his dealer's part. But to say that it isn't a problem for the manufacturer, that would just be incorrect.
* I just saw bluechip's post. That is exactly what I'm talking about. He is a dealer who sees things exactly the way I do. He is a dealer that I would do business with. Not because of any one particular issue, but because of how he sees the importance of reputation for both the dealer and manufacturer. Not everybody can be a dealer for a first class manufacturer. Some apparently need to be culled from the network.
depratt_equip
Platinum Member
All I'll say is I have done warranty repairs on tractors that I did not sell... Some I ended up eating a little labor.... won't happen if I do that same repair again. Kioti will reimburse for diagnostic time but only a reasonable amount and the dealer needs to know how to properly write it up on the request in order to claim diagnostic time... you have to be very specific about the steps you performed and did...
I feel the dealer should have told you before it went in the shop that you may be charged for some, I make it a point to tell all my customers when they will be charged. I do not however charge a dime on warranty repairs unless there is a deductible.
I have gained customers with this policy….
I feel the dealer should have told you before it went in the shop that you may be charged for some, I make it a point to tell all my customers when they will be charged. I do not however charge a dime on warranty repairs unless there is a deductible.
I have gained customers with this policy….
wallace
Veteran Member, Approved Advertiser
I can not see how some people think this has to do with Kioti.
Kioti paid the allowable time on this warranty.
If the dealer could not complete this in the allowable time then that is the dealers problem.
Kioti paid the allowable time on this warranty.
If the dealer could not complete this in the allowable time then that is the dealers problem.
ocaj11
Silver Member
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2004
- Messages
- 190
- Location
- Northeast Texas
- Tractor
- John Deere 5325 4wd, Kubota B7500 HST
It's Kioti's response that I CAN NOT STAND. Why would they risk the happiness of a customer for $75.00?? That decision has already done way more harm than it would have for Kioti to call the dealer and work it out. This is just flat bad service from both sides. It's the reputation of Kioti, not the dealer, that is being tarnished in this thread.
The warranty is for parts and labor from any dealer in the network, right? Does the warranty explain that you must return your tractor to the dealer you purchased from in order to get good service? This was a perfect opportunity for this dealer to pick up a satisfied customer and he blew it. Kioti could have offered a helping hand. They blew it.
Simply Unacceptable.....
The warranty is for parts and labor from any dealer in the network, right? Does the warranty explain that you must return your tractor to the dealer you purchased from in order to get good service? This was a perfect opportunity for this dealer to pick up a satisfied customer and he blew it. Kioti could have offered a helping hand. They blew it.
Simply Unacceptable.....
Agreed Wallace. Kioti Corporate has paid their part, they have given the dealer the amount that they give all dealers, no more no less.
What should be done however, is what I suggested in my first (or second really) post on this subject...the customer needs to call the territory rep, explain the situation, and let him handle the dealer. Corporate Kioti will do nothing more than they have already done and they should not be expected to, the dealer rep on the other hand can look into this further and figure out exactly why this dealer is wanting $75.00. I would even bet the dealer rep would frown heavily on this practice.
All problems are solvable, you just have to go through the right avenues to solve them...and in this case the right person is the territory rep.
What should be done however, is what I suggested in my first (or second really) post on this subject...the customer needs to call the territory rep, explain the situation, and let him handle the dealer. Corporate Kioti will do nothing more than they have already done and they should not be expected to, the dealer rep on the other hand can look into this further and figure out exactly why this dealer is wanting $75.00. I would even bet the dealer rep would frown heavily on this practice.
All problems are solvable, you just have to go through the right avenues to solve them...and in this case the right person is the territory rep.