Kubota B2650 and B3350 info and hints

[ericdube]

With 13.5 hours on the tach, by B3350 started blinking the "regen light" so I pushed the "auto regen" button. The regen process took longer than I expected, almost half an hour, during which time I ran it at full throttle, 2500 rpm, and used the backhoe. During that first 13.5 hours, I tried to operate at moderate engine speeds and avoided idling for more than a few minutes. Still, to minimize PM in the DPF, it's better to run it at higher power settings . . . while the manual says not to do that during break for the first 50 hours.

I've ordered all the parts and bits from Surplus Sales to install the hydraulic deflector on my B2782 snowblower. Only thing I'll fabricate are the mounts for the cylinder.

bumper

That's really interesting. There must be a smaller DPF on the B-series than on the L60 series. I've got 32 hours on my L4760 already, and I believe my DPF reading is still hasn't reached 40%.

Did you notice any real difference with the operation of the machine during the regen? While I haven't been through a regen on the L60 yet, I didn't notice a difference with Kubota's excavators and I just went through a regen over the weekend with the KX040-4 (took probably less than 20 minutes to complete and I wouldn't have known it was happening if I didn't see the warning message on the operators panel.)

I hope the B3350 is working out for you. That's a great tractor, and I almost bought one myself.

 

[bumperm]

The DPF on the B3350 is a cylinder, flat ends, maybe 7" diameter and 14" long (that's a rough guess). In any case there's not room for anything bigger as the little engine compartment is well packed. Instrumentation is more sparse than on the L4760 - - there's no display of DPE % blockage, just a light and buzzer to advise when regen is needed if the operator has not selected "auto regen".

During and before regen, tractor functionality seemed unchanged. Leading up to the event, the only hint that it would soon be time was the "lag" on starting before the engine smoothed out and ran on all four. This changed from a couple of seconds to 6 or 7 seconds sounding a bit like a radial engine on start up.

bumper

 

[2010drive]

Bumper,

Have you started yours in cold weather yet? I know you store yours at 60 degrees but have you left it outside long enough for a cold start?

About a week ago I started mine in the 30's primed for 5+ seconds throttle halfway and it chugged along for a few seconds and then died, started it back up and it was fine. Same thing happened today at 20 degrees.

 

[2010drive]

Also my floor mat has cutouts for the wire's going into the dash for all but 1 area, is your's like this?

1st pic is drivers side second is passenger side.

 

[bumperm]

My floor mat and wiring look identical to yours.

I finally started my B3350 in the cold, probably around 34 degrees. Mine did exactly as yours, chugged along for 5 or 6 seconds with no indication that it was speeding up to go smooth - - then died. Repeated glow plug warm up again and it chugged for just a few seconds and ran smooth. Frankly, I'm not real happy with this "feature" of the tractor. Also, I tend to run the engine at higher RPMs than one would run a non-DPF equipped tractor so as to avoid loading up the filter so quickly. This is frustrating, as often a lower RPM would be more appropriate for the work at hand.

With the EPA clamping down and heavily fining the "DPF delete" companies that were selling to the diesel truck crowd, I don't suppose anything like that would become available retail. However, it looks like it would be simple enough to do. Machine a flange, have a car muffler place mandrel bend a new pipe, weld on the flange. Result would simply replace DPF. I don't think Kubota uses anything sophisticated like the OBDII compter used on autos. I'm assuming two of the three sensors are differential pressure to measure PM loading, and the other is doubtless a temperature sensor. Just rambling . . . I'll probably leave it be at least until warranty is up.

bumper

 

[Paystar]

I was wondering that myself, if any of the delete manufacturers will jump into the compact tractor market.
Or if the B2650 could be turned up a bit.

 

[bumperm]

While the B2650 and B3350 are "mostly" the same tractor, the engine isn't, as the 33's has four cylinders and a turbocharger against the normally aspirated three cylinders on the 26. I think the block is extended on the 33 as the bore and stroke are the same. I'm guessing the turbo was needed to help force air into the DPF strangled engine. Other minor differences include indicators, switches etc., most of those related to the DPF. The 26 also doesn't have the "parking brake on" warning light like the 33 . . could be wrong on this though.

For the most part, dealers I've talked to are not up to speed on the B3350's nuances. There's also not much of an owner pool or info on-line yet, "2010drive" and myself being the only two owners posting.

No "DPF delete" manufacturer, at least in the US, will likely be foolish enough to jump into the fray after the EPA fined one hapless maker of pickup truck kits $500K and required them to refund money any customers who asked (although I bet there weren't many takers on that offer).

The jets overhead are burning millions of gallons of jet fuel (basically the same a diesel) with no emission controls whatsoever and our misguided government is picking on little tractors.

bumper

 

[2010drive]

Do you think the wires that don't have a cutout for them in the mat are for the third function valve? I believe that is a dealer installed option so that would explain why the factory mat doesn't have cutouts.

I started mine today in the mid 30's, this time it chugged like normal and then went to 1400RPM. I raised the lever to try and lower the RPM's to 1200-1300RPM which is where I usually have it during warm up, but it continued to stay at 1400RPM even with the lever in the idle position. Once it reached 1 (one) bar on the coolant gauge it went back to functioning as normal.

I will do another cold start on Saturday and see if it does it again.

 

[2010drive]

I don't think the DPF removal will be as easy as it seems. I'm guessing it would recognize it's missing the DPF and at least show a warning light, possibly a ruff idle, or even shutting down completely.

It's probably not as complicated as on the trucks but I bet it's not as simple as removing it. I am interested in seeing the results though

 

[Paystar]

Ya Bumperm.....a bunch of them got caught and fined but it hasn't seemed to have slowed them down. They are still openly advertising them in all the magazines. There is even a whole bunch of shops advertising in all the trucking trade magazines to do DPF/EGR removal and ECM programming on class 8 trucks.

Wish I could figure it out on these tractors.....bet I'd have a good cash business going, LOL.

 

[bumperm]

I don't think the DPF removal will be as easy as it seems. I'm guessing it would recognize it's missing the DPF and at least show a warning light, possibly a ruff idle, or even shutting down completely.

It's probably not as complicated as on the trucks but I bet it's not as simple as removing it. I am interested in seeing the results though

Should be easy and reversible to find out. First, unplug all three sensors and see if any idiot lights come on. If no, all is well. If yes, maybe still doable - proceed to next step! Remove all three sensors from DPF, but leave sensors plugged in. If no idiot lights, all is looking good (this would be my bet). If lights come on, oh well :c(.

If the above has no idiot lights, things may still not go well for removal. In some apps, turbo over speed is an issue. Not sure if our little turbo has automatic waste gate or no waste gate. If no waste gate, over speed might be an issue?

My B3350 has the 3rd function valve. Wires do down joystick and into fender . . . haven't traced them to see where they go from there.

Installed LED rear work lights today, still waiting for the Kubota switch. Used mirror and light to search for wiring plug behind dash - - no joy. Will have to remove dash cover to see if I can locate the plug.

Lights are much brighter and have more consistent even beam than stock: 36W Watt LED Work Light Lamp Truck ATV Tractor Boat 9 30V CREE LD196A | eBay

bumper

 

[2010drive]

H&S, who as you probably know is a huge player in the diesel truck aftermarket. Has stopped selling DPF delete "off-road" tunes, and is now only tuning for "on-road" tunes. Thankfully I got one of the leftover tuners and last model year supported trucks.

 

[bumperm]

Installed LED rear work lights today, still waiting for the Kubota switch. Used mirror and light to search for wiring plug behind dash - - no joy. Will have to remove dash cover to see if I can locate the plug.

Lights are much brighter and have more consistent even beam than stock: 36W Watt LED Work Light Lamp Truck ATV Tractor Boat 9 30V CREE LD196A | eBay

bumper

I removed the dash and found the wire and plug for the rear work lights taped up to a main part of the wiring loom.

To remove dash, lift rubber boot on steering column. Loosed two 10mm bolts, one behind each side of forward lower dash edge. Remove one Phillips head screw (black) below center storage compartment on upper dash. Dash will then pull off and move to the right enough to expose wiring harness and allow removal of taped plug.

Still waiting for switch from Kubota, but in the interim I plugged in the rear work light plug to the front work light switch. Needed to aim the lights down a bit more but they are just excellent!

Received box from Surplus Sales with all the hydraulic parts for the deflector on the front mount snowblower . . . I'll be busy for a spell.

bumper

 

[2010drive]

Good deal, I will be hooking up my snowblower tomorrow and will post pics:thumbsup:

 

[bumperm]

Finished the hydraulic chute upgrade on my B2782B snow blower, turned out well . . . pictures to follow, but here's some notes:

When I purchased the B3350, I ordered the 3rd function option with the idea of adding chute deflection on the blower. Even though it costs a bit more than Kubota's diverter valve deflector, the 3rd function is more versatile to my way of thinking. Total parts cost to add hydraulic deflector (on top of 3rd function) was $208.

From Surplus Center
9-7715-4 2" x 4" x 1.125" DA HYD Cyl heavy duty clevis $109
2 ea 9-6901-8-4, SAE 8M x 1/4 NPTF 90 swivel
2 ea 916-14108 1/4" x 108" hydraulic hose (this was just enough length considering chute rotation, but a couple of inches more would not have hurt).
2 ea 9-5406-6-4 3/8 NPT to 1/4 NPT bushing (to fit the 1/4 hose to the 3/8 quick connects used on the 3rd function valve)

I tapped the 1/4" side of the 90 swivels to accept a 1/4 x 20 steel set screw. I heated the set screw to cherry red and let it cool slowly so as to make center drilling easier, then drilled a .052" restrictor hole. Set screw Loctited in place. Without restrictors, I'm sure deflector would move way too fast, as with the restrictor the speed is perfect (there's no way to feather the 3rd function valve as it's controlled by push buttons on the joystick). I also chose to use a 2" diameter cylinder for this reason, figuring the extra volume over a smaller cylinder would slow things down some. (Note Kubota uses a 2 X 5 ram. The extra inch of travel would slow things about 20%, but the 4" ram is more readily available and the shorter stroke is not a problem as far as clearance is concerned - - just that the chute lever arm will be a little shorter.)

When making the brackets to mount the 4" stroke cylinder, it is most important to get the geometry right so the ram travel limits coincide with the desired chute travel (otherwise you either won't have full chute travel, or worse, the ram will over-travel the chute and stress or bend things. A deflector arm radius, measured from the deflector hinge pin to center on the ram clevis pin, of about 4" is a good starting point when laying things out using the Surplus Center cylinder.

Since I had the chute off to weld on the brackets, I greased the gear teeth and nylon chute bearing surface before reassembly - - works much smoother now.

Can't wait for the snow so I can go play!

Oh, one more thing . . . confirming what was discussed earlier re the "bucket dump" regen function of the 50 series joystick loader valve when used for the hydraulic motor chute rotation. Rotation speed is easily feathered using the non-regen side (left) for counter-clockwise chute rotation. When turning clockwise, moving the lever right, there's no actuation when passing through the regen area of stick travel though you can hear the hydraulic pump loading up as the regen function applies high pressure to both sides of the motor! I try to move through this regen region with minimal delay and then slow down stick movement to feather rotation speed as much as possible. Even though there are restrictors installed on the motor, it still starts up pretty darn fast . . . this will take a little getting used to, but seems workable enough with operator training :c)

bumper

 

[BadDog]

With the snow here in Erie lately, I've had a couple of chances to use the snowblower with the full Kubota chute control. It works very well but does take a bit of getting used to, like many things. No regrets with the purchase, and happy the dealer gave me a few replacement shear bolts to help with the learning process.

 

[bumperm]

BadDog,

The shear bolt for the impeller is a plain jane 5/16" X 1.5" grade 5 bolt. For the auger it's a "special" (read expensive - $2.50 or more each) 5/16" X 2.5" grade 5 with a single groove in the smooth shank portions (so it shears properly). I bought a handful of the plain jane version and will make 'em right on my lathe . . . go ahead, call me cheap (or parsimonious) I don't mind. Them shear bolts will end up costing me 40 cents.

bumper

 

[bumperm]

Here's the photos of my chute deflector install (sans snow).


lots of mountain . . . no snow






3rd function quick connects


cab controls on joystick for 3rd function (Kubota option)

bumper

 

[bumperm]

Stock B2782B slides are forged(?), hardened steel. They work well for most apps, but on some driveways with colored concrete or pavers there's a possibility of leaving scrape marks. I made these non-marking slides from 3/4" thick UHMW polyethylene on new steel frames (I didn't want to mod the original parts). The slider is 12" long and 2 1/2" wide, with more bearing surface than stock. The wear pad is easily replaceable and is mounted with four 1/4 - 20 countersunk bolts.

Thought about heat bending the UHMW and bending the steel base to base to provide more of an upturn to the tip . . . but in the end I opted for the easy way out and beveled the ends at 30 degrees.



I also lined the chute with strips of 2" wide 4.5 mil thick UHMW tape (McMaster-Carr) to help prevent shushy snow from clogging. Considering lining the faces of the impeller too, though that looks to be more difficult and may not wear all that well.

EDIT: The UHMW tape, though slick, wasn't thick enough to avoid being trashed by some inadvertent gravel (neighbor had a snow stake positioned back away from the driveway). I'll be lining the chute with 1/8" thick UHMW.

bumper

 

[bumperm]

Lined the chute on my B2782B snowblower with 1/8" UHMW polyethylene as planned. A chore, but the UHMW does bend nicely using a heat gun - - I did a cold pre-bend using a sheet metal press brake but that step could be skipped. The UHMW should be heated to approaching 285 F or so, but since the bends want a little radius to match the chute, a somewhat lower temperature works too. UHMW is interesting in that as you heat it beyond 285 F or so, it starts getting clear but does not flow or puddle until a significantly higher temperature. It should be cooled slowly to avoid stress (though with 1/8" thick this isn't critical and all that's needed is to hold it in position until it cools).

Piece used on the main body of the chute is 25.5" X 19.25", then trimmed at the bottom to fit the angles there. Note that I only lined the upper surface of the deflector as shown. I will also make pieces to fit the sides of the defector, just haven't got to it yet. Also thinking of making a UHMW liner for the impeller housing. 1/8" thick fits, but just barely on the right side (there's more of a gap on the left). I'm sure closing the gap will increase the throw.



Chute complete with side liners for deflector. Note that there is *just* room for the 1/8" thick UHMW I used, tight fit, but deflector moves smoothly and easily, liner replaces original nylon washer:



bumper