Dealer Kubota dealer turns ugly.

[Goog]

Well Said Hamer. I look at this forum almost daily and have learned a lot from other's experiances with there tractors. This is not a Kubota bashing site at all. It is Kubota educating for Kubota owners and sometimes dealers. In my case I have a very responsive dealer in to customer service. A bad dealer will not be in business long in most cases. Brian

 

[radman1]

I tend to do extensive internet research before I buy expensive items or items on which I know little about them. There is some misinformation but in general, most of it is very valuable and helpful. I read reviews from those involved in the subject or often from end users. I don't buy into the emotion of the product or the emotion of the person recommending the product. ie Ford pickup is just better than Chevy means nothing to me. Why is Ford better? Where is Chevy better. Better in one area doesn't mean it is what I need or want.
When I buy a product, and deal with salesmen, I don't try to use the internet as direct leverage on price. No saleman wants to deal with a customer that thinks they know it all and they just want the lowest price. I was buying a car once and was just finishing up the paper work. A loud talking, obnoxious, 50ish, customer walked in the front door of the dealership and said in a loud voice for everyone to hear "I want just one price and it better be your best price." I couldn't believe it. Every salesman glanced at each other and shuddered. I assume the next saleman in line, knew he was dead meat and went to greet this guy. I thought, poor guy. We all talk about the bad salemen and dealers but they have many more horror stories than we do. I am polite but direct and in the end, I hope both of us are satisfied.
As for the original post, the salesman should have kept his thoughts to himself. It serves no benefit to himself, the company or the customer to respond that way. For most salesmen the internet is probably the same as a 4 letter word. They no longer have the secret sales price edge and they realize people are often badly misinformed or more informed than the salesman from the internet. I wouldn't be too hard on the sales guy especially if the prior relationship was good. He gave the customer an insight into what he believes and his behavior. If he was my employee, we would have had a private discussion on his reaction to the situation and what he did wouldn't be tolerated. A letter to the owner/manager maybe indicated. If the owner is of the same attitude as the salesman, nothing will happen. If the owner thinks like me, he will talk to the sales guy and hopefully change the behavior.

 

[Deerlope]

Its pretty sad when I ask my Kubota dealer questions on spec and he only has dumb answers, but when I find them on the internet and confront him he right away knows all the answers. Come on give me a break.

 

[workinallthetime]

i agree about the net going both ways, i feel this is just another source of info not the bible, just like the salesperson is another source of info.
when i worked on motorhomes there was a tsb out about "if a customer complains about a porpus effect on the front end replace the shocks with a new design". Well all of a sudden we got 4 to 5 a day in wanting shocks because they saw on the net the comapany was giving free shocks all you have to do is complain. It got so bad we had units with the stickers on them still wanting shocks. I can think of alot of issues where the internet really causes problems with service departments due to bad information or someone bragging.

 

[GaryCrowell]

Unfortunately some dealers don't want to work with informed customers. An informed customer isn't generally going to overpay or fall for a bait and switch, buying something that the dealer has in stock rather than what he needs. I experienced this a year ago when buying my latest tractor. I decided on what model massey I wanted and started visiting dealers within a 50 mile radius. The first dealer I visited quoted me $25500 for the tractor and 5900 for the loader. I chuckled a bit and told him that was about $3k high on the tractor and $1500 high on the loader. I already knew from the internet what a ballpark good deal price was. He looked like I had just called his daughter ugly and refused to even negotiate, got up from his desk and started walking out of the office. I stood up, thanked him for his time and offered my hand. He at first looked like he didn't want to shake it, but finally gave me a limp wristed shake and walked off. This guy didn't want to work with someone who knew what the product was worth, not enough profit in it for him. I eventually bought the same tractor/loader combo for $4000 less from a closer dealer.

I ran into the same adversity when buying my wife's toyota camry two years ago. I bought it by e-mail and phone calls, not setting foot into a dealership until I signed the papers. I got a couple of e-mails back from irate dealers who were angry that they were being asked to "bid" for my business. I ended up getting the car and price I wanted from a dealer about 200 miles away.

Dealers don't like the internet because it makes for an informed customer, and that cuts down the profit margin. Good dealers understand that an informed customer is their best customer. Bad dealers just interested in a quick fleece job don't want customers armed with knowledge. Unfortunately it seems like there are more bad dealers than good ones, both in the tractor and car industry.

 

[ultrarunner]

I grew up in an automotive family... My Grandfather told me that selling a "NEW" anything is the most competitive market to be in because there are many places offering the identical item and you really are competing on two things... price and availability. A warranty is something offered by the manufacturer and any Dealer is obligated to honor is under it's franchise agreement.

He actually had a much better sales advantage in dealing with his used inventory because each used vehicle is unique as to mileage, condition, availability and so on...

My point is that it is foolish for anyone selling new equipment to insult a buyer that is ready to buy because the next dealer with the same tractor is just down the road and today the Internet highway is unlimited.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

i agree about the net going both ways, i feel this is just another source of info not the bible, just like the salesperson is another source of info.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[swines]

I think a lot of you are being unrealistic about what a sales person can know about the total product base - no matter how much information is available on the Internet. There are just too many products, even among a simple class of product like compact utility tractors.

Do you really think a sales person has the time during the day to surf the net? They're supposed to be selling - not surfing. Look at all of the manufacturers and all of the models discussed on this forum - I just don't think anyone can be familiar with every model of every manufacturer in-depth.

In the early '80's I managed a photo store. My job was to know as much about photographic equipment and materials as possible. But, realistically it was impossible to know every single model of every single manufacturer in-depth. In one product area alone (cameras) we sold: Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Bronica, Konica, Yashica, Mamiya, Deardorff, Sinar, Plaubel, Leica, and Minox. You could not know every feature of every model, let alone all of the accessories available from the original manufacturer and secondary manufacturers.

What I did was asked my sales staff to learn the entire system from at least 3 manufacturers that they liked or wanted to learn about. They became the "subject matter expert" on that system. Normally, a sales person could answer the questions asked about 85% of the time. When it got into the 15% esoteric area - you called in the expert who could converse with the customer.

At the very least, if no one was available to answer a specific question, my direction to the staff was to just say, "I don't know, but I'll find out." If we could, we got on the phone and called the manufacturer immediately for the information. If the manufacturer was not available (late in the day, Saturday, etc.), we got the customer's phone number and called them back when we had the information available.

In my experience, that's about the best you're going to get no matter how dedicated or interested a sales person is in the field in which they're selling.

Do you expect them to spend all day selling and working with customers - and then go home to surf the net for another 3-4 hours? Life ain't tractors 24 hours per day for everyone....some people actually have real lives.

Lastly, as for price - I only expect the best price the dealer can give me and still stay profitable. It doesn't do me any good if they go out of business giving away products just to be "competitive."

I'll have to go back to cameras one more time. At the time I managed the store, I could sell a Nikon F3 for $585 - I paid $535 for it plus shipping if I did not have it in stock. I had people come in to the store who wanted me to sell it to them for under what I paid for it because they saw it advertised by a store in New York for a price that was $20 under my low net.

Believe it or not, even if I took out my Nikon price book and showed them my low net price - they would still want me to match the lower price. Why? Because they believed that somewhere there was some hidden discount to me that I wasn't telling them about.

If they had the time and interest, I'd explain to them how you could get cameras at a lower price, but that I couldn't place 1,000 piece orders of a specific model to be delivered quarterly over the entire year. A deal that guaranteed the manufacturer a base order that paid his costs for that model for the year.

If they still didn't understand, I suggested they should order it from the New York dealer as I could not afford to sell something for less than I paid for it. A FEW of them actually understood that concept.

 

[8226hamer]

I think a lot of you are being unrealistic about what a sales person can know about the total product base - no matter how much information is available on the Internet. There are just too many products, even among a simple class of product like compact utility tractors.

Do you really think a sales person has the time during the day to surf the net? They're supposed to be selling - not surfing. Look at all of the manufacturers and all of the models discussed on this forum - I just don't think anyone can be familiar with every model of every manufacturer in-depth.

In the early '80's I managed a photo store. My job was to know as much about photographic equipment and materials as possible. But, realistically it was impossible to know every single model of every single manufacturer in-depth. In one product area alone (cameras) we sold: Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Bronica, Konica, Yashica, Mamiya, Deardorff, Sinar, Plaubel, Leica, and Minox. You could not know every feature of every model, let alone all of the accessories available from the original manufacturer and secondary manufacturers.

What I did was asked my sales staff to learn the entire system from at least 3 manufacturers that they liked or wanted to learn about. They became the "subject matter expert" on that system. Normally, a sales person could answer the questions asked about 85% of the time. When it got into the 15% esoteric area - you called in the expert who could converse with the customer.

At the very least, if no one was available to answer a specific question, my direction to the staff was to just say, "I don't know, but I'll find out." If we could, we got on the phone and called the manufacturer immediately for the information. If the manufacturer was not available (late in the day, Saturday, etc.), we got the customer's phone number and called them back when we had the information available.

In my experience, that's about the best you're going to get no matter how dedicated or interested a sales person is in the field in which they're selling.

Do you expect them to spend all day selling and working with customers - and then go home to surf the net for another 3-4 hours? Life ain't tractors 24 hours per day for everyone....some people actually have real lives.

Lastly, as for price - I only expect the best price the dealer can give me and still stay profitable. It doesn't do me any good if they go out of business giving away products just to be "competitive."

I'll have to go back to cameras one more time. At the time I managed the store, I could sell a Nikon F3 for $585 - I paid $535 for it plus shipping if I did not have it in stock. I had people come in to the store who wanted me to sell it to them for under what I paid for it because they saw it advertised by a store in New York for a price that was $20 under my low net.

Believe it or not, even if I took out my Nikon price book and showed them my low net price - they would still want me to match the lower price. Why? Because they believed that somewhere there was some hidden discount to me that I wasn't telling them about.

If they had the time and interest, I'd explain to them how you could get cameras at a lower price, but that I couldn't place 1,000 piece orders of a specific model to be delivered quarterly over the entire year. A deal that guaranteed the manufacturer a base order that paid his costs for that model for the year.

If they still didn't understand, I suggested they should order it from the New York dealer as I could not afford to sell something for less than I paid for it. A FEW of them actually understood that concept.

I have found that it pays to be informed as much as possible about a product, or a service whether your are buying it or selling it. Success depends on it and if not it will cost you in the long run whether it's a 500.00$ camera, or a 20,000.00$ tractor.

 

[gemini5362]

I think a lot of people do not expect the salesman to know everything about the product. I certainly would not expect that. I personally do not have a problem with a salesman telling me that they do not know something. What I had a problem with in this thread is the salesmans attitude. A customer comes in to talk with him about a tractor and the customer has done his homework before going to the dealership. I would not expect or put up with a salesman who developed an unpleasant attitude over having some knowledge about the product I was buying. If it was me I would have called for the sales manager and told him that I was a repeat customer and I was not going to be talked to like that by a salesperson. If something was not done about it right then I would have said goodbye and went down the road to someone else. There is no reason to put up with a salesperson with an attitude.