Kubota Engine Oil

[Furu]

I know there are posts on here from folks that say they have talked to Kubota and that it makes no difference but is there any Kubota service bulletins that have official Kubota statements about this subject.
Kubota engine manuals state that any oil API better than CF is good. They then specify up to CI-4 Plus (CF,CH-4, CI-4) and others that are lesser for use.

They specifically state not to use CJ-4 in a Kubota engine that does not have a particulate filter.

I have found this discussion on multiple forums and no one seems to have a Kubota official reference other than their opinion or third hand.

While my Kubota engine is not in a tractor it appears that all the Kubota off road engines have this issue.
If it makes a difference mine is a V-2403-M-E3B 48.9 hp 4 cylinder.

 

[diesel lover]

Why is cJ-4 rated Diesel engine oil not to be used in an engine without a diesel particulate filter? Is the oil too high and new in spec and older spec'd oil is better for older engines ??

 

[Furu]

You have restated the issue in a different way but the question still remains. The specifically state not to use it in all the manuals and specs.

 

[beemerphile]

The API faqs say you can use it in older engines, but then they give the disclaimer that you should consult the manufacturer for specifics...

CJ-4 Service Category Description

The Chevron Delo 400 10W-30 oil that I use in my 2010 M5040 Kubota claims to meet all earlier specs...

http://www.deloperformance.com/docs/Delo_400_LE_10W-30.pdf

 

[diesel lover]

Wow I didn't know the newest engine oil ratings could be harmful to older Diesel engines especially Kubota engines.

 

[wmonroe]

I haven't seen CI-4plus oil around here in 3-4 years or longer, are you guys finding it?

 

[MHarryE]

I haven't seen CI-4plus oil around here in 3-4 years or longer, are you guys finding it?

CJ-4 is backward compatible. It took longer to phase in because it is more expensive than previous grades, but double production and stocking is even more expensive. The explanation on the link posed earlier is a very good summary, but if you Google a CJ-4oil you will find more detail stating the same thing. If you look at Kubota's web site under lubricants and go to engine oil you will find that the 10W-30 and 15W-40 oil they supply meets CJ-4. Only the straight SAE 30 doesn't but it doesn't meet much of any other specs either. And for good reason - Japan put tighter limits on diesel fuel earlier than any other country, and if you are in a business other than farming (not sure how farming is regulated because I was never involved in that in Japan) when an emissions reg goes into effect a person cannot continue to use their pre-regulation machine beyond a cut-off date (something like 1 year). Our construction equipment customers pedaled their almost new machines to lesser regulated countries. I know I've read the warning not to use CJ-4 oil but have wondered if the person(s) writing the manuals know what they are talking about. If Kubota really was serious that an oil meeting CJ-4 couldn't be used in their non-DPF tractors they would be selling oils that don't meet CJ-4 because today only a tiny fraction of their engines have DPF filters. Their big lubricant market is in older product.

 

[number two]

Kubota manuals are sadly out of date on oil specs.Go to a Kubota dealer and check out the rating on their Kubota branded oil.It's now CJ-4.
Oils are being made backwards compatible,meaning the new oil works just fine in the older equipment.
CJ-4 oils were developed for diesel engines with particulate filters to handle the higher amount of soot the oil is subjected to.
CI-4 is still available in larger quanities such as pails,barrels,or bulk for users with non-particulate filter engines.It's perfectly fine for them and costs less.
Kubota ships their tractors with 10W30 which I
prefer to use,although warmer climate users may prefer 15W40 or many prefer 5W40 synthetic
CF-2/4 is an older spec for older engines like 2 stroke Detroit Diesel engines.Shell Rotella T single grade comes to mind.
Hope all this helps!

 

[Furu]

Well aware of all of that. Unfortunately I have done a lot of research and learned a lot since I got this engine. It is not a tractor but is still a Kubota motor.
This is a 2013 pre-Tier 4 engine; Tier3+ with its 2013 manual clearly stating not to use CJ-4 oil. I am trying to find out why and if there is any service bulletins that override the manual. I have only had the engine for a week but the 50 hour oil change will come pretty quick and I am trying to resolve this.(if I can)

 

[beemerphile]

A similar stand was taken by BMW for older motorcycles that owners should not use SJ rated engine oils because the standard reduced some additives that BMW felt were important. Oil manufacturers claim that SJ meets all prior specifications.

BMW and SJ Oil

Likewise, if you read the API literature on CJ-4 you will find that some additives have been reduced or replaced. I suggest, without knowing, that this may be a similar situation. Of course, this does not explain Kubota's own lubricants meeting the specification and claiming backwards compatibility.

 

[wmonroe]

My truck is an early 07 without the extra emissions equipment and was designed to use CI-4plus oil. After owning it about a year (maybe less) it was getting hard to find anything but CJ4, I had done a couple oil analysis with the CI-4 oil and decided to make the switch to CJ-4 since it was all I could find. After about 70,000 miles and another 5-6 oil analysis there has been absolutely no change in anything. So I guess I say all of that to say I'm comfortable running the CJ-4 oil.

 

[Chilly807]

Of course, this does not explain Kubota's own lubricants meeting the specification and claiming backwards compatibility.

This is my point of view as well.. I just said the hel* with it and continue to use Kubota's branded oil. No harmful effects either. If you're concerned about warranty issues or possible engine damage I suggest you get in touch with Kubota USA and ask them for their position on this in writing.

Any modern oil on the shelf will be CJ-4 compliant if they hope to sell any amount of it to the larger users, the trucking industry in particular. Kubota is a small player in the diesel engine market compared to the big guys like International, Cummins, and Cat just to name a few. Without doing extensive research I suspect all their newer engines call for CJ-4 oils, and they may even have statements issued explaining their position on the use of CJ-4 in older engines not originally spec'd for it.

My gut feeling is that there may be some difference in recommended oil change intervals, particularly if you use anything but ULSD fuel.

Sean

 

[KubotaToy]

Here is what the kubota website states, which is what the local dealer said to go by, the dealer has always maintained the manual is out of date concerning engine oil. https://www.kubota.com/service/LubricantMaintenance.aspx

DIESEL ENGINE OIL
Interim Tier4 and Newer
CJ-4 Required**

External EGR
CJ-4, CI-4**

Non-EGR
CJ-4, CI-4, CH-4**

**As of May 2012 this information supersedes all previous publications regarding the use of CJ-4

 

[Chilly807]

Here is what the kubota website states, which is what the local dealer said to go by, the dealer has always maintained the manual is out of date concerning engine oil. https://www.kubota.com/service/LubricantMaintenance.aspx

DIESEL ENGINE OIL
Interim Tier4 and Newer
CJ-4 Required**

External EGR
CJ-4, CI-4**

Non-EGR
CJ-4, CI-4, CH-4**

**As of May 2012 this information supersedes all previous publications regarding the use of CJ-4

Looks pretty definitive to me.

Sean

 

[alancamby]

You can still get Amsoil and Lucas in CI-4. It has a higher TBN # then CJ-4.

AMSOIL SAE 15W-40 Heavy-Duty Diesel and Marine Motor Oil

Lucas 15W-40 Magnum High TBN CI-4 Oil : Lucas Oil - Lucas 15W-40 Magnum High TBN CI-4 Oil

Testing of both the Amsoil CJ-4 oil and Amsoil CI-4 oil that they do is posted at the bottom of their product specs. The CI-4 oil has a smaller wear scar on the "four ball wear test". This is comparing Amsoil to Amsoil, so there is no reason for them to show one product performing better.

 

[beemerphile]

The CI-4 oil has a smaller wear scar on the "four ball wear test". This is comparing Amsoil to Amsoil, so there is no reason for them to show one product performing better.

I am not an Amsoil basher, as I use it in all my cars, trucks, and motorcycles. But, Amsoil is the only company that touts the four ball wear tests for motor oil. Most other oil companies (Mobil in particular) and the ASTM says that it is not useful as a wear indicator in engine oil. Gear oils are a different matter because extreme pressure performance is essential.

 

[TexasBoy]

Im going to use the same Valvoline Premium Blue that I use in my Cummins 6.7

https://valvoline.com/pdf/premium_blue.pdf

Larger chain auto-part stores often have promotions and have it on sale very cheap, I stock up at those times and use it when needed.