Kubota GR2100 drive issues

[jnug]

I had one of the gas engine Kubota tractors for a couple of years and while I thought I had purchased enough tractor to just mow my lawn. it was a little short on power. So I traded it back to the dealer for a GR2100 long before it has been used for very long. Mind you all my GR2100 does is mow my 1.25 acres of easy sloping lawn. That is it. I have had it since May 2007. Today, the thing is leaking UDTS fluid. The Kubota dealer tells me that 90% of the time, is is caused by a gear or spacer breaking inside the drive which runs the width of the rear of the tractor sending metal through the system and cutting a seal. Further the only way to fix it is to tear down the back of the tractor, find the broken part, repair it, repair what it has damaged and put everything back together again...roughly a $3,000.00 job!!! Occasionally a clamp goes and that causes the leak but that is very very rare. This was a $7,600 tractor which has been used about 35 minutes per week about 30 weeks per year since 5/07 on nothing more dramatic than a lawn and now needs a $3,000 repair.

I bought a Kubota figuring I would buy more tractor than I needed from a reliability standpoint and make out on the back end in reduced down time or repair needed. That equation does not work with this tractor. I live in NE so it is used about 30 times per year, about 35 minutes per usage to mow my lawn. That is only 90 hours of very mild usage to date!!! I could have had my lawn mowed by a contractor for what this has cost me over the short period of time is has been in service and would actually have been better served financially. What by the way would a contractor that bought this tractor do? This is about 1.5 seasons of usage for a New England contractor. Needless to stay I am extremely disappointed in this tractor and in Kubota for designing something at a $7,600 price point that requires such extensive servicing after such limited usage. We are talking about 90 hours of lawn mowing and not tough lawn mowing at that! It was not even conceivable to me before this happened that I would be facing such a major repair after 90 hours of usage.

I am now between a rock and a hard place. The repair will cost just about what the tractor is worth at this point. So I can't repair it. To do so would be at least as bad a decision as buying it was in the first place. I am going to be left to top of the hydrostatic fluid that is leaking out of the system and try to run it through at least one more summer as it will require at least one more summer of cuts just to get close to breaking even on cutting myself vs having a contractor cut my lawn. Lets say the actual hit for repair is $2,000. Still does not work financially to repair it. I would have to get the repair done at closer to $1,000 to make it at all palatable financially and even then given only 90 hours of operation, I would just be shoving myself farther down the rat hole against simply having had a contractor cut my lawn! Trust me, I was planning on doing much much better than breaking even as that does not even account for my time....a tremendous disappointment....

Anyway...has anybody tried just topping off the fluid and running it to cut the lawn. Wondering if it will work for at least a summer or if the thing is likely to just drop dead after a couple of cuts.

 

[locknut]

Where exactly is it leaking? What is the serial number on the tractor? Does the tractor still operate properly? Have you ever had the tractor back to the dealer for any servicing?

 

[jnug]

Where exactly is it leaking? What is the serial number on the tractor? Does the tractor still operate properly? Have you ever had the tractor back to the dealer for any servicing?

Machine still runs properly. Some whining from the steering now that it is low on fluid. Fluid appears to leak from the left side of the drive near the left rear wheel which I think is where the pump is as well. The drive of course runs the width of the rear of the tractor from rear wheel to rear wheel. It had the usual 50 hour servicing.

 

[kcender]

If there is a broken piece in the transmission it could lead to further damage by running it.If it was mine,and it's not,I would take it apart myself.

 

[jnug]

If I had taken one of these apart myself before I surely would go down that road. Somehow I don't think pulling the whole back end of the tractor apart should be something someone that has not done that kind of work on these kinds of machines should do. Even with my auto background I don't feel comfortable doing it because these are not built like cars are built and that fluid runs though so many parts of the machine. Kubota as you may or may not know has changed the design of these tranny's because this design stinks.

If I have the dealer service center pull it apart, there is a parts kit that could be used to upgrade it to the current design level. In fact, the upgrade parts are the only parts Kubota makes available for sale now. Sort of tells you something about the previous design. So if I do the work the machine would have the newer tranny purpose designed to relieve the user of just the problem I am having.

The truth of it is that my original thinking in buying what I thought would be more tractor than I needed from a perceived reliability perspective was seriously flawed. Just based on the list price of this machine, if it was not in need of repair today, I would still be financially in the red compared to just having a contractor mow my lawn since ownership of this machine....a monster of a miscalculation on my part as I expected at least double the hours without major issue considering such a mild application.

However, it looks like Kubota and the dealer are going to provide me some support on this machine. I will report out how it all works out for the benefit of all. At least Kubota is making an effort and even without knowing how this is all going to work out, that much should be commended. Just not sure that Kubota has designed this machine for such limited/mild usage as their "years" warranty does not help you as much as the hours of operation based warranty like they have for their larger machines. However these have hour counters. So they could do an hours of operation based warranty on these machines.

 

[amigauser]

Definitely let us know how Kubota treats you on this.

 

[Pete6114]

That is disappointing, to say the least. There are riding mowers available that cost 1/10 of our kubotas, that last longer then 90 hours. Glad they are working with you on getting it fixed, as they should, regardless of expired warr. When we buy high end mowers, we have the right to expect more then that. Makes me worry about my GR2120.........

 

[jnug]

Pete,

They changed the tranny design on the entire GR series in light of the issues people like me have had with them. You can check using your serial number but the new design uses bearings instead of bushings and is much much more robust. In fact, Kubota only sells the newer parts now so that if an owner has this issue, he cannot even replace using the previous design parts if he wanted to. They are not made available. So depending on when you got your 2120, you may already have the newer design tranny in it.

 

[Eddyj]

I own the same tractor. Kubota gr2100 diesel. 2005 model with 400+ hrs. Last week cutting the grass and mowing leaves a seal in the transmission blew, Leaking fluid. The dealership picked it up and the first diagnosis was a new seal for $8 and $100 in labor. One day before delivery I got the call that it things has gone from bad to worse. The gears were gone and the cost would a minimum of $1,100 labor plus parts. Total cost could run $4,000- $5,300. What a joke. I bought this mower to last a lifetime. My brothers John Deere is 20 years old and still running. To make things worst the dealership said Kubota offered zero help and a sales guy called an offered me $500 towards a trade for a new a bx25. ****, they got 60 month 0% financing . Seriously? I spent $1800 on a triple bag attachment 2 years ago. I wouldn't give one red sent to kubota.. Anyone what a free orange lawn ornament ?.

 

[locknut]

I own the same tractor. Kubota gr2100 diesel. 2005 model with 400+ hrs. Last week cutting the grass and mowing leaves a seal in the transmission blew, Leaking fluid. The dealership picked it up and the first diagnosis was a new seal for $8 and $100 in labor. One day before delivery I got the call that it things has gone from bad to worse. The gears were gone and the cost would a minimum of $1,100 labor plus parts. Total cost could run $4,000- $5,300. What a joke. I bought this mower to last a lifetime. My brothers John Deere is 20 years old and still running. To make things worst the dealership said Kubota offered zero help and a sales guy called an offered me $500 towards a trade for a new a bx25. ****, they got 60 month 0% financing . Seriously? I spent $1800 on a triple bag attachment 2 years ago. I wouldn't give one red sent to kubota.. Anyone what a free orange lawn ornament ?.

Feel sorry for you Eddy.If you bought the unit brand new call Kubota customer service and ask for some help on this.They know it's a design problem,so tell them you need help.The same help they've given others,even those out of warranty.I was fortunate to have found this forum early on and was aware of the issues.When I talked to my dealer about this they told me if I noticed any problems with it bring it in.So,I took it in for service later on and told the tech the hydro was experiencing diminished holding power on downhill runs. New case halves,bearings,upgraded PTO drive parts and larger charge pump.This was 3 years ago and it's stronger now than when new.I sincerely hope you have a favorable outcome.

And welcome to the forum,albeit a little late.

 

[Old Coot]

I think Kubota really hurt their reputation with the early model GRs. Had I not have owned several really good Kubota's before I got my GR2110, I would never had looked at another Kubota. I know exactly how Eddyj feels. They should have had a recall and fix or replaced every one they sold. I lost money trading mine in on a BX, although the dealer did come through within a few hundred dollars of purchase price as a trade.

 

[locknut]

I think Kubota really hurt their reputation with the early model GRs. Had I not have owned several really good Kubota's before I got my GR2110, I would never had looked at another Kubota. I know exactly how Eddyj feels. They should have had a recall and fix or replaced every one they sold. I lost money trading mine in on a BX, although the dealer did come through within a few hundred dollars of purchase price as a trade.

You would think that a major design flaw that renders an $8000 tractor essentially worthless after such short usage would warrant a recall.Shame on Kubota.If this type scenario had happened to the BX line,the company would certainly be forced out of business.I see several of the early models for sale through different venues and I wouldn't give more than $500 for any of them without certified documentation that all the upgrades have been done.

Can you imagine buying a new car or truck that self destructs to basically junk value with less than 15,000 miles on it?

 

[jnug]

I completely understand Eddy's situation, even at 400 hours, four times the time I have on mine it is still ridiculous. When you buy a diesel tractor one of the things that drives you to that purchase is the understanding that the core of the tractor, the diesel motor is going to last a long long time. So you would also think that the designer and manufacturer would build in other drive components that could also be expected to last a very long time. Obviously, Kubota mated a very poorly designed tranny to a robust diesel motor. Honestly that is just plain stupid! Then as Eddy and I have found, once a gear or bushing breaks apart, that metal can go anywhere because the fluid is feeding just about every other part of the drive and steering that is not the motor itself. So now you might be facing repairs upwards of $3,000. That suggests using overarching design principles that are almost laughably bad. Kubota mated a tranny that would have been inherently inferior (bushings instead of bearings) to what we would have all expected to be an inherently robust core, the diesel motor itself. The consumer would not have expected components to be so poorly mated to each other in that tractor. Further, since the design forces that fluid to coarse through every major component in the tractor except the motor itself, the inferior tranny exposes all those other expensive parts to potential damage. The mere fact that the new tranny is of a completely different configuration, bearings instead of bushings tells you how poorly mated the original tranny was to that motor and eventually the entire tractor itself.

Update on mine. As of my last post, it does look like Kubota and the dealer are going to pitch in to help me some on this tractor. I am still going to get hit and probably hit hard in the repair but it is way better than Kubota doing nothing at all. The fluid is not pouring out of the thing. The leak is a very slow leak indeed. Such a slow leak combined with the fact that the other tractor components that might be effected all function properly possibly suggest that the damage is contained within the tranny itself although when this happens, they have to pull just about everything but the motor apart to see how much may have been damaged by those floating metal particles. In fact, the damaged seal which causes the leak has likely been torn by some part of the shattered bushing or gear. As Eddy explained in his post, the tranny upgrade, which is the repair that must be done if the original tranny goes, is upwards of $1,100 and more likely something like $1,300 if you do nothing else. Then if other components like the much ballyhooed Glide have been damaged now you are headed for that $3,000 + number.

This begs another question though. Since the fluid is not pouring out of there in my case, when did that first gear or bushing come apart, at 50 hours, 60 hours, 70 hour?. These are all numbers that are just incomprehensible for a diesel tractor of this type.

While I brought it up earlier but especially since this is a diesel machine, since it does have an hours counter, it would make much more sense for Kubota to offer an hours of operation warranty for this tractor. I don't know if an hours warranty would extend all the way out to 400 hours and help Eddy out but you would have to think that it would cover my 90 hours of use. At any rate I am soon to find out much more about the actual condition of my GR. Have my fingers ad toes crossed.

 

[locknut]

The way I understand it,a low fluid level condition,whether caused by the dodgy axle bushing design or a leak elsewhere would cause the PTO drive at the very top of the system to run dry,hence chewing up those components and distributing metal pieces all throughout the transaxle/hydro.The latest PTO drive in the new machines use a much more reliable hydraulic engagement mechanism.

Sounds like they are helping you out on the 3rds program,whereby all three parties share the cost of the repair after the warranty expires.Better than nothing.

 

[jnug]

Surely the PTO might be the most vulnerable because if its location. It appears to function properly but there will be no telling if it has damaged until they get in there and pull it apart. The fact that the fluid ends up everywhere other than the motor itself would not be an issue and really should not be an issue. It is an issue with what is really an inferior tranny design...that tranny should never have been implemented in this tractor.

 

[David_Kb7uns]

I own the same tractor. Kubota gr2100 diesel. 2005 model with 400+ hrs. Last week cutting the grass and mowing leaves a seal in the transmission blew, Leaking fluid. The dealership picked it up and the first diagnosis was a new seal for $8 and $100 in labor. One day before delivery I got the call that it things has gone from bad to worse. The gears were gone and the cost would a minimum of $1,100 labor plus parts. Total cost could run $4,000- $5,300. What a joke. I bought this mower to last a lifetime. My brothers John Deere is 20 years old and still running. To make things worst the dealership said Kubota offered zero help and a sales guy called an offered me $500 towards a trade for a new a bx25. ****, they got 60 month 0% financing . Seriously? I spent $1800 on a triple bag attachment 2 years ago. I wouldn't give one red sent to kubota.. Anyone what a free orange lawn ornament ?.

There are parts you could sell off that for several thousand alone besides the engine!! Your dealer is not being very good to you. Hit them harder and make them play ball or make this a nightmare case for them and do up a website with all the facts.

Sorry but I am still glad I got the last G2160-60 the dealer had, I just did not like the looks of the GR

David Kb7uns

 

[dieselbob69]

Well,I was able to get mine through the last couple mowings of the season last month.I'm in a quandry of what to do with it.Mine's an '07-supposedly "upgrade" kit was installed a couple years ago when the axle seal was leaking.Dealer helped me out on that one a little bit. This problem a little more serious-right rear binds on certain turns,glide steer cables and springs intact. On a smaller incline next to road,when wet,only the front wheels were spinning-no help from rear. The output shaft on top of tranny that goes to engine(IIRC) has some wobble/play in it. I drained tranny oil and put new filter and oil in before the last couple mowings. The oil that was drained was quite dark,and a few fine particles of metal,but no big pcs. I put the old oil in a clear jug so I can take to dealer when I decide to bring it there. Does anyone know if a tranny from the 20 series,along w/ glide-steer rods(not cables),can be put in an '07? I'm guessing the tranny will be in the $3k range. Don't know if it's worth it or not-no problems w/engine. It's not worth sh*t as it sits now-pretty sad-only about 580hrs. on it. I'm debating on whether to go back to a Cub Cadet or a JD. I really don't want to make payments on a mower again-guess I'll have to wait till it gets looked at and go from there.....what would you guys do?

 

[jnug]

There must be some big distinction between the G2160 and the GR2100 series or I guess they would not offer both. I don't een recall seein 2160's at my Kubota dealer when I bought my GR2100. What is the major distinction? They are both diesel machines.

 

[dieselbob69]

There must be some big distinction between the G2160 and the GR2100 series or I guess they would not offer both. I don't een recall seein 2160's at my Kubota dealer when I bought my GR2100. What is the major distinction? They are both diesel machines.

The G2160 is a diesel,but only 2wd and no glide steer. There is an 04 near me for sale w/just over 200 hrs. and looks to be in mint condition for $6500-I think he also has it listed on ebay. They do have 0% for 36 months or 2.99% for 48 months through end of year.....

 

[locknut]

The G2160 is a diesel,but only 2wd and no glide steer. There is an 04 near me for sale w/just over 200 hrs. and looks to be in mint condition for $6500-I think he also has it listed on ebay. They do have 0% for 36 months or 2.99% for 48 months through end of year.....

If you don't need 4WD the 2160 is a much stronger tractor.The frame is more like the BX and the transaxle is all heavy cast iron.Should be a several thousand hour tractor with proper maintenance.Could you trade yours in on this one?