Tractor Sizing Kubota L3901, L4701, L4060, MX5400, stability, miscellaneous

[jeff9366]

The tread width thing is useful. What is the width they give in all the Kubota specifications? They use the phrase "Overall width (min. tread)". Are they using the inside edge of the tires as the boundary?

I believe so. This so potential buyers know if existing moldboard plow will work behind new tractor. Right front and Right rear tires must follow one after the other along the bottom of a moldboard plow furrow.

May also be important to vegetable and melon growers who want to pull "hillers" or have a certain width bed they need to straddle, then cultivate.

Kubota is inconsistent between model families with how width is specified.

 

[chim]

Whether the lawn will be happy with the tractor depends on your soil and how you operate the tractor. My soil is fairly firm. It drains well, even next to the creek. I never mow in 4WD and always drop the loader and frame before mowing. Rear tires are filled. I need to try to damage the turf. There's one sloped area in particular that I'm more comfortable with this tractor than any previous smaller ones. This past December this tractor had been through all 4 seasons with mowing, snow removal and general use. Couldn't be more pleased with this lawn mower. It cuts 7-1/2 feet wide and is a stable and comfortable machine:

 

[Bullwinkle123]

Whether the lawn will be happy with the tractor depends on your soil and how you operate the tractor. My soil is fairly firm. It drains well, even next to the creek. I never mow in 4WD and always drop the loader and frame before mowing. Rear tires are filled. I need to try to damage the turf. There's one sloped area in particular that I'm more comfortable with this tractor than any previous smaller ones. This past December this tractor had been through all 4 seasons with mowing, snow removal and general use. Couldn't be more pleased with this lawn mower. It cuts 7-1/2 feet wide and is a stable and comfortable machine:

Well, that's an enviable lawn/tractor setup you have there with a huge tractor and your flat open grass as far as the eye can see. Mine is more like a maze of New England stone walls. buildings, trees, and garden beds. There is a fair bit of grass, but it's like the old Zork maze "you are in a series of twisty passages, all different".

Here's some snaps of part of my driveway to be maintained, grass to be cut (without a tractor), and part of the field to brush-hog (not in that order). They can be deceptive, for example where the field appears to end on the left is really the ground dropping off more steeply for a while before it reaches the trees.

 

[chim]

Well, that's an enviable lawn/tractor setup you have there with a huge tractor and your flat open grass as far as the eye can see.....................View attachment 643723View attachment 643724View attachment 643725

You have a beautiful place there!

The background in the picture I posted is a small corner looking toward the neighbor's barn. About 50' on the other side of the rock is a farm field that may look like grass. Here's a picture that shows some of the things that need mowed around. The land near the creek is about 12' lower than the area where the house sits. The slope varies from gentle on the right side to rather steep to the left of the house.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Well, that's an enviable lawn/tractor setup you have there with a huge tractor and your flat open grass as far as the eye can see. Mine is more like a maze of New England stone walls. buildings, trees, and garden beds. There is a fair bit of grass, but it's like the old Zork maze "you are in a series of twisty passages, all different".

Here's some snaps of part of my driveway to be maintained, grass to be cut (without a tractor), and part of the field to brush-hog (not in that order). They can be deceptive, for example where the field appears to end on the left is really the ground dropping off more steeply for a while before it reaches the trees.

View attachment 643723View attachment 643724View attachment 643725

ZERO TURN...

 

[Bullwinkle123]

ZERO TURN...

Yeah, except for the cost, I'd want a zero turn for the lawn. But for now I'm hiring it out.

Looping back to my original questions, the question on my mind is whether the L3901 is overkill or underdone for me. I've been setting a line at 30 minimum PTO HP for brush hogging that field. Not only is it hilly, but we only do it once a year (that's a plan for the wildlife) and so the sapling growth is aggressive. Given a general rule of thumb of a _minimum_ 5PH per foot of cutter for "normal" brushhogging situations, that's where I'm shooting for 30HP PTO minimum (and a medium duty cutter). Then there's my stability worries. Only partly for the field with its odd scary small sub-slope or two, but also for my secondary goals of going in the woods with it. From where I'm standing on the field photo to the bottom of the property (not the field) is about 450 vertical feet (which will mostly be inaccessible to any tractor), with more upward slope behind me. Definitely not a level place.

Upshot is that I'm looking at 3901 for minimum pto power, and wondering about a the 4060 for wider stance. Probably not worthwhile, though who wants to say no to more power? Dealer says I'd probably be talking at least a $6500 increase in cost, and I'm not sure he's factored in wider implements and taxes on that guess. Anyway, again, opinions welcome. For now the top candidate is the L3901 (with 1.5" spacers).

 

[jeff9366]

The forty-horsepower L4060 'Grand' model is more than 11 inches wider than the L3901 with thirty-nine horsepower!

 

[Bullwinkle123]

The forty-horsepower L4060 'Grand' model is more than 11 inches wider than the L3901 with thirty-nine horsepower!

Yes, I pointed that out earlier! The questions is, should I be seriously considering it, or am I pointlessly concerned and the L3901 is enough (or even too much?)

 

[old and tired]

...or even too much?

I don't think it's too much. It's the smallest I would get. I think you might be better off with a L4701. Much heavier that holds the ground pretty good. I used a L4701 to plant some corn on a side slope and it did fine. It's a much beefier tractor than the L3901. L3901 is the same frame/weight as my L2800, which is pretty light. (which is a big Plus for driving over the lawn).

Whatever you get, make sure you have money left over to outfit with a grapple and hydraulic top link and side link if you want to take care of your road. All the extra's add up quickly and most people wished they had gotten the extra's sooner vs. later...

So (I wonder) if the 1.5" spacer is the largest Kubota sells. I would seriously look at after-market for wider ones, if you are really needing stable feelings!!

Any chance to get to test drive these at your place? I used to worry about tipping my tractor over - 10 years later, I take it now more places and it feel's a lot more stable.

 

[Jstpssng]

That's a nice area that you live in. i used to cruise timber up that way back in my previous life.

there's plenty of evidence of past cart and/or logging paths that cover some pretty steep terrain. Weird to think of horses managing it when tractors can't.

"Back in the day" they often used small crawler tractors to bring wood from those steep slopes. Often it was hard maple and/ or yellow birch veneer, so it was worth the extra effort. A former colleague called it "mining", they cut the wood and didn't go back for another hundred years.
The most interesting method that I ever came across was outside Berlin NH, in Milan right next to the White Mountain National Forest. I was going up a steep hill, and kept seeing old stumps so was calling it all operable ground despite the extreme slope. As I got almost to the top I walked back from a tree to take the height and almost tripped over the chute from the old flume which they had sent the wood down years before. Of course I never carried a camera, so all that I have is memories of it.

I wouldn't be too concerned with getting a tractor which is too big, considering the land you will be using it on. It's better to get enough tractor the first time, trading up is always costly.

 

[ericm979]

That's a pretty good sized field there, especially if there's much more that's not in the pic. It seems like it'd be worth while to get a good sized rough cutter and enough tractor to run it.

There's a big difference in features between the L01 and Grand L series. Even between the L01s and my Branson. An example is the PTO- it's live or transmission driven on the L01s while my Branson and the Grand Ls have an independent PTO with a switch. Running a PTO chipper is one of the major tasks for me. With the switch I can turn the chipper on and off from the ground, where with a live or transmission PTO you have to get on and use the clutch. Over the years that adds up.

I've gotten so much more out of my Branson than I thought I would. Knowing what I know now I could have justified getting an L4060. That HST+ two speed would be nice, especially for someone like you who has larger acreage and thus longer travel distances to/from jobs.

 

[Jstpssng]

That's a pretty good sized field there, especially if there's much more that's not in the pic. It seems like it'd be worth while to get a good sized rough cutter and enough tractor to run it.

There's a big difference in features between the L01 and Grand L series. Even between the L01s and my Branson. An example is the PTO- it's live or transmission driven on the L01s while my Branson and the Grand Ls have an independent PTO with a switch. Running a PTO chipper is one of the major tasks for me. With the switch I can turn the chipper on and off from the ground, where with a live or transmission PTO you have to get on and use the clutch. Over the years that adds up.

I've gotten so much more out of my Branson than I thought I would. Knowing what I know now I could have justified getting an L4060. That HST+ two speed would be nice, especially for someone like you who has larger acreage and thus longer travel distances to/from jobs.

My 3301 is the same way. I use the clutch anyways though, especially when using the bush hog I like to get it going slowly.

 

[3gunr]

Yeah. The zero turns are like, what, $17k? Ouch. I try not to think about that for now. I'm not sure how large my lawn is. It probably takes the zero-turn 35-45 minutes to do the yard at very high speed. I imagine it'd take me 3-4 hours with my old 21 inch walk-behind deck. :-/ For now I pay for the service, I'll worry about doing the lawn myself when I retire. The tractor is filling more urgent needs, like tree removal where my back just will not let me haul this stuff around any more, and the more expensive things I'm tired of paying for, like driveway maintenance. Either way a large tractor is not going to do the lawn, there's too many tight areas between buildings and stone walls that they just won't navigate well. I wouldn't want to try it even with a BX series. I haven't begun to consider what I would buy to mow the grass. Something that will do as much work as possible on the leaf collection in the fall, I'd imagine.

i have a 60 in cut 30 hp bad boy zt that i cut 9 acres a week with in the summer, i paid 6700 for it.

 

[Bullwinkle123]

I don't think it's too much. It's the smallest I would get. I think you might be better off with a L4701. Much heavier that holds the ground pretty good. I used a L4701 to plant some corn on a side slope and it did fine. It's a much beefier tractor than the L3901. L3901 is the same frame/weight as my L2800, which is pretty light. (which is a big Plus for driving over the lawn).

Whatever you get, make sure you have money left over to outfit with a grapple and hydraulic top link and side link if you want to take care of your road. All the extra's add up quickly and most people wished they had gotten the extra's sooner vs. later...

So (I wonder) if the 1.5" spacer is the largest Kubota sells. I would seriously look at after-market for wider ones, if you are really needing stable feelings!!

Any chance to get to test drive these at your place? I used to worry about tipping my tractor over - 10 years later, I take it now more places and it feel's a lot more stable.

Re: hydraulic, I know people in this forum swear by hydraulic goodies for rear attachments on driveway maintenance. I asked the dealer about it and he suggested it really wasn't necessary, but I wonder if that's maybe because there aren't any kubota branded parts for this? I don't know enough about the subject in general, but I hear you.

re: test drive, yeah, I'm going to do a test drive, of the 3901 and at least one of the 4060 or 4701, but the dealership is in a very flat place so I'm not sure I'll get much of a feel for anything meaningful. I'm thinking it's pretty unlikely they'll let me test something here short of renting equipment, and I'm 40+ minutes from the dealership.

re: spacers: I expect there are other options for other models, but the dealer insists that for the L3901, 1.5 inch spacers is the limit (and that spacers are also necessary if you need to add chains).

 

[Bullwinkle123]

That's a nice area that you live in. i used to cruise timber up that way back in my previous life.


"Back in the day" they often used small crawler tractors to bring wood from those steep slopes. Often it was hard maple and/ or yellow birch veneer, so it was worth the extra effort. A former colleague called it "mining", they cut the wood and didn't go back for another hundred years.
The most interesting method that I ever came across was outside Berlin NH, in Milan right next to the White Mountain National Forest. I was going up a steep hill, and kept seeing old stumps so was calling it all operable ground despite the extreme slope. As I got almost to the top I walked back from a tree to take the height and almost tripped over the chute from the old flume which they had sent the wood down years before. Of course I never carried a camera, so all that I have is memories of it.

I wouldn't be too concerned with getting a tractor which is too big, considering the land you will be using it on. It's better to get enough tractor the first time, trading up is always costly.

re: previous life, in my previous life I once motorcycled to Berlin NH (still remember the wood pulp mill smell :-/) and camped out with the loons on a lake.

re: area here, yeah, foothills of the green mountains is very pretty, maybe not so tractor friendly. Maple and birch definitely two logging staples here. I manage the land under the tax-favorable forestry program, but leave the heavy logging to the professionals. That said, they leave so much wood behind I'd like to use for other things after each cut, it'd be nice to rescue some of it with the tractor.

 

[Bullwinkle123]

That's a pretty good sized field there, especially if there's much more that's not in the pic. It seems like it'd be worth while to get a good sized rough cutter and enough tractor to run it.

There's a big difference in features between the L01 and Grand L series. Even between the L01s and my Branson. An example is the PTO- it's live or transmission driven on the L01s while my Branson and the Grand Ls have an independent PTO with a switch. Running a PTO chipper is one of the major tasks for me. With the switch I can turn the chipper on and off from the ground, where with a live or transmission PTO you have to get on and use the clutch. Over the years that adds up.

I've gotten so much more out of my Branson than I thought I would. Knowing what I know now I could have justified getting an L4060. That HST+ two speed would be nice, especially for someone like you who has larger acreage and thus longer travel distances to/from jobs.

Yeah, I have a question about that (was going to ask the dealer), since I'm a rookie. In the back of my mind I was hoping for an independent PTO, but the L3901 says "live - with overrunning clutch". So I'm guessing I need to depress that pto clutch to engage it. Am wondering about that, really don't have a practical clue. I too would like to run a chipper-shredder. I've got multiple piles of branches taller than me that I'd prefer as mulch for the garden beds. Anyway, PTO clutch advice appreciated. I'm guessing the Grand L will have no issues in this regard. The 4701 I'm not sure, it says it says "Live-indepdendent hydraulic PTO with PTO brake, wet clutch". That's a lot of words compared to the L4060 which just says "independent". I'm quoting the HST models for the L3901 and L4701. I'm assuming the L4701 is "independent", and that the rest of the verbiage is just because they wanted to fill the box on the spec page.

 

[jeff9366]

Re: hydraulic, I know people in this forum swear by hydraulic goodies for rear attachments on driveway maintenance. I asked the dealer about it and he suggested it really wasn't necessary. I wonder if that's because there aren't kubota branded parts for this?

Kubota dealers sell LAND PRIDE implements and attachments. HQ is Lenaxa, Kansas. LAND PRIDE is 100% owned by Kubota. Kubota is transferring its parts warehouse to Lenexa.

A tractor with an independent PTO supplies power to implements independently from tractor wheels. Specifically to Grand Ls, a small, rotating, yellow electrical switch activates PTO engagement. This is illustrated in several Messick's videos, especially the video explaining HST/+.

VIDEO: Kubota HST Plus Transmission Features - YouTube

L3901 has a bare tractor weight of 2,700 pounds. The L4060 weighs 3,850 pounds, bare tractor weight. Often it is revealed here that buyers decide on a too-light tractor but think if they add gee-gaws like hydraulic ports and a grapple then will nonetheless have a Big Boy tractor. Nope. Bare tractor weight is the basic determinate of tractor capability and important to tractor stability.

NEWTON: For every action there is an opposite and equal reaction. Diregarding axle width, a 2,700 pound L3901 working will roll over long before an 3,850 pound L4060 working, ESPECIALLY ON SLOPES. Eleven inch wider L4060 stance increases stability more than the incremental weight. Tractors kill operators regularly. Buy enough tractor.

 

[Bullwinkle123]

Kubota dealers sell LAND PRIDE implements and attachments. HQ is Lenaxa, Kansas. LAND PRIDE is 100% owned by Kubota. Kubota is transferring its parts warehouse to Lenexa.

Yeah, my dealer quote is full of land pride stuff, the dealer disclosed the relationship. I didn't see any Land Pride hydraulic top link stuff, but I could be using the wrong search terms. I'm guessing w.r.t. Landpride any hydraulic consideration is fundamental to the thing being sold, and not as a seperate kit. I was surprised that the dealer downplayed the utility of this for my driveway fixing needs, but he says that it's mostly set-it-and-for-get-it for most driveway repair tasks. Meanwhile forum members swear by having hydraulic adjustments (reachable from seat) to tune things as you go. Me, I have no clue of course.

 

[jeff9366]

The search term is rear hydraulic port(s). They are Kubota parts, not Land Pride parts. Ports are "kits" when dealer ordered.

Industry surveys report tractors used in residential situations operate 60 - 80 engine hours per year.

I am a recreational user but I average 300 engine hours. Many here farm or operate tractors in a business. Many clock 500 engine hours per year.

I have one pair of Kubota rear hydraulic ports. If I operated 500 hours per year I would probably have two pairs of rear hydraulic ports.

400 horsepower to 600 horsepower 'Big Ag' tractors often have ten pairs of rear hydraulic ports.


Relative to tractors, I am a proponent of the KISS PRINCIPLE. I have everything I need. Nothing more. Everything requires maintenance. Less is more.


Many report great satisfaction with hydraulic accessories produced by Brian, also known a MtnViewRanch, a regular T-B-N contributor.

FIT RITE HYDRAULICS: Fit Rite Hydraulics - fitritehydraulics.com

 

[Bullwinkle123]

A tractor with an independent PTO supplies power to implements independently from tractor wheels. Specifically to Grand Ls, a small, rotating, yellow electrical switch activates PTO engagement. This is illustrated in several Messick's videos, especially the video explaining HST/+.

VIDEO: Kubota HST Plus Transmission Features - YouTube

I like those Messicks videos, they're a great resource. Now if only they had one about "operating tractors in New England". I look at some of those videos, like one demonstrating a loader mounted auger, and can only shake my head wondering how quickly it would hit impenetrable rock in New England. Meanwhile, thanks for the link, I definitely watched it.