Kubota subcompacts are no longer the obvious king of the subcompact hill.

[LS Tractor Owner]

You have two within 75 miles according to the dealer locator. Different world over here. Within a two hour drive of me you could probably hit a 12-15 Kubota dealers. As you can guess the pricing pressure is a weeeee bit different.

One actually sells tractors, the other could order them, but primarily sells utv's. If I had a dealer such as you guys (Messick's) I probably would have a Kubota. I would hope that 'pricing pressure' may change how these local dealers do business. I have watched nearly every video that you guys have put out. They are awesome! Even though I don't own a Kubota, they have assisted me in my tractor knowledge. I thank you for that, it is truly going 'above and beyond ' for your customers.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Buckeyefarmer

Good thing you aren't a news reporter or we'd still be hearing about 2017 breaking stories.

https://www.kubotausa.com/promo/bx-series-deal

Not sure what a newspaper reporter has to do with this? Weird response.

Anyways, No mower deck for you!!!

Breaking news, My kubota ad was this week, no free mower deck listed.

In the link I see the words "price includes a mower deck", not free mower deck. Not the same thing. I wonder if a bx was ever sold without a mower deck...

Still waiting on those market share numbers..... Sales figures..... Proclamation of which scut is "king of the hill".... Location of which hill someone is king of..... List of features kubota is lacking......

In the meantime, I'll be using these..

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Greetings Fellow TBNers,

How many of you thought Messick's post was a great response to my original posts ? Come on now - be honest.

Lets be clear - Messick's is a great operation from everything I've been told - and he's a very skilled and valued poster by me and others. But look at what he said compared to the start of this thread and you'll see he is indeed a very skilled poster. He writes and states "As a dealer". But that wasn't what my posts were about was it LOL. My posts were and have been in this thread about Kubota's actions - not dealer's actions. Obviously Messick's is very good at communications

My point is that Kubota is doing some things this last 6 months that it has not done before to attempt to maintain its marketshare for the BX product line. And I provided some quite specific examples (free deck and $99 a month and on larger units $129 per month).

Now lets look at what Messick actually stated from his dealer's perspective: "Kubota did not cut pricing to do this, no extra discounts where used. Its a combination of a 0/84 rate that's not often used, and putting a lid on dealer margin." I understood that based on the 84 month extended financing - but if you note - Messick didn't reference the free 54 inch deck in that statement - now did he . . . told you - he's a good salesman

In other words Kubota has controlled and reduced dealer's profit potential (mandatory) relating to the BX product. And then of course in addition there is the free deck so dealer's aren't getting any profit on the deck either - seems like some serious discounting to many dealer's bottom line - at least sounds like it to me LOL

Messick also said "The margin left is fairly typical for a place like us, but its tight for some dealers who maybe in high-cost states." Tight ??? Good salesman that Messick LOL.

That comment didn't include the free deck - as I read it. So what about all the Kubota dealers that aren't as large, successful, established, and has the area prospect quantity that Messick's has ? Or has a long lengthy client list from many years when margins were handsome ?

In other words - I'd guess lots of dealer's might say Kubota has "done something" to try to maintain its marketshare - and that its been done to the dealer's bottom line.

1. This thread started with me making a post about marketshare recovery efforts by Kubota because the rest of the scut market is getting much more competitive than they previously were.

2. Then some wanted to post about Massey tractors because I bought a Massey scut - but that wasn't what my posts are or were targeted about.

3. Then some wanted to talk about sales numbers - but my posts weren't about sales numbers but about marketshare - which are 2 totally different things when a market has expanded greatly as the scut market has.


Messick made a great post about how Kubota has improved the BX products - and you'll note my posts had previously said that - Kubota makes fine product.

And his perspective as a highly successful dealer perspective is probably much like my dealer's thinking too - as they are also one of the successful larger dealers in the country. But Messick freely admits a fact that likely many other dealers don't "feel" - a forced mandatory decline in BX profit margin levels because of the 84 month pre-quoted pricings - and a generous free deck worth - what - $2,000 ??? besides ?

4. My point is - why is it so hard for readers to recognize that the competition in the scut field is having an impact. Comments like "I'll still buy a Kubota because its well recognized and has been a good product" - - - has anyone questioned or doubted that at any point prior ? Has anyone said "don't buy a Kubota" ???? Has anyone said "xxxx brand is superior to a Kubota BX scut" in this thread ???

Why am I sticking to this thread - and defending the points I initially made ? Because too often TBNer's seem to reference past history in the process of others choosing for the future. Or too often - TBNer's reference poor dealers or even more often - a lack of available dealers close to them - and my point is - if you see a manufacturer or manufacturers making it harder on small dealers to start or to thrive in various areas - you often create dealers fighting for every dollar they can get to stay in business and feed their families. Lots of dealers can't be a Messick's or a Mc Farlane's or 20 other dealers - because their territory or financial capacity can't compare.

I'd love to have some come back with insights or information or perspectives that counter mine. Am I picking on Messick's? Absolutely not - I respect them - and I respect their salesmanship skills too - to reference the dealer perspective that they have.

But, but, but - for everyone who says "yes that Messicks knows what they are talking about and showed AxleHub the truth - you better understand that Kubota is openly making efforts to keep their considerable scut marketshare - even at the point of impacting the dealers in less than pleasant ways - because Kubota wouldn't do it if they were not competing against a growing group of joint competitor impact.

And no - not just Massey or J.D. or Kioti, - its every brand you can name that makes scuts - its the total of the group - not the individual of the group.

I'm not familiar with what the conditions are to get those special financing rates AND get a free deck or what that free deck is normally sold for.

This is much different than when Kubota lengthened the warranty period a couple years ago because Kubta (the company) bit the bullet on doing that.

jmho

AxleHub I agree with you about Messick being a great dealership based on using them for parts and their online parts diagrams and numbers for our Fords. I needed new bushings for the Bush Hog rear discharge finish mower and the order came fast and at a great price. I could even see that they were in stock and how many they had in stock.

What you are talking about was basically done by Sam Walton of WalMart fame 50 years ago to cut wasted cost out of the supply chain. Today new car dealers have to price about the same since all buyers interested knows more or less dealer cost. With dealers and or buyers willing to travel 500 miles the need for local dealers declined UNTIL fast service is needed. Like many others if our tractors go down time is not critical.

People that have to have a tractor on demand are going to typically go with a locally sold and well serviced brand and the color may not be mission critical. All tractors are becoming disposable more each year so the need for repair shops will become less an less like is the case today for autos with carbs.

The tractor brands that do not continually evolve will travel the path of K-Mart and Sears.

Most any brand of tractors today seem to do OK where there are a good supply of parts and service for that brand in my view. As some of us remember from the 60-70's the number of today's tractor dealers may only be 30% of today's numbers 30 years down the road. Today we can rebuild or get a shop to rebuild our 50+ year old Fords, etc so they are good for another 50 years since they only are likely to see light duty like the CUTS of today. Few tractors today can see 100 hours in 7 days like when I was a kid at planting and cultivating time.

Changing times is not easy for everyone to deal without question. I see CUT dealerships that are only 6 months to six years old but the ones that come to my mind are not Kubota dealerships at least in my area.

 

[LD1]

Wow, that was a painful read. All I kept thinking to myself is "here we go again"

I agree with buckeyefarmer......I think there is a little self justification going on.

Other companies have done things like this in the past. Great 0% interest, free loader, or free mower, or free this or that.

ITs called good marketing. It certainly doesnt mean their sales are slipping.

Since Budweiser always spends millions during the superbowl......that must mean that they are loosing market share to miller-coors right?

And offering a free mower deck and zero-percent financing........do you honestly think you are getting it free and truly 0%? If you do than you are dumber than this thread itself.

But then again.....thats the goal......make you think you are getting something for nothing....
And when JD dont offer you something for nothing......obviously kubota is the better deal right????

 

[Oldoak]

Kubota subcompacts are no longer the obvious king of the subcompact hill.

So what difference does it really make? I couldn't care less. No, I didn't read through pages of dumb arguments.

It's great that there is more competition in the field and more choices among consumers. Something (brand) to suit almost everyone who is in the market for a SCUT.

I have owned a Kubota for 20 years and presently have a new Kubota on order, but it's just nonsense to argue about what manufacture is "king of the hill".:thumbdown:

 

[murph1]

I don't know about Kubota but Massey dealers are disappearing here.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

but if you note - Messick didn't reference the free 54 inch deck in that statement - now did he . . . told you - he's a good salesman

There is no free deck. That's not a thing. The Ad's say they include attachments because Deere typically does these kind of Ad's with tractors only.

I'm happy to add facts to this thread, but I'm confused where its going.

 

[GolfAddict]

Interesting, I see that on their SCUT, Massey is currently offering 0% for 84 months plus a $400 instant rebate on implements. I wonder what grandiose inferences I might dream up from that...

 

[LD1]

There is no free deck. That's not a thing. The Ad's say they include attachments because

Agreed.

Ad says nothing about the deck being "FREE"

Just that the price quoted includes a deck. That would be like getting a price on a M62TLB.....being quoted a price.....and thinking I am getting a loader and backhoe for free:laughing:

but I'm confused where its going.

I dont think you are the only one:laughing:

Again, I think I have to agree with buckeyefarmer that this is a little self-justification thread....perhaps with a little sprinkle of buyers remorse???? Maybe he is paying MORE than $99/month and still dont own a Kubota???

 

[prichard]

Yep, got my kubota ad this week, no free mower decks..

Should relabel this the Seinfeld thread, a lot about nothing. It's getting about as comical. All we need is,

"No BX for you!!"

Best response in this thread.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Best response in this thread.

 

[TripleR]

View attachment 550714

Now that's funny. The first two or so incarnations were kind of interesting until they weren't and it's really stale by now. I find it interesting how quickly some new owners become experts on machinery, corporate strategy and market trends after buying one tractor.

 

[ThirdMan]

I found TBN when I realized that I needed a bigger piece of equipment that just a lawn tractor. My wife and I are building a small horse ranch and I had never mowed more than 1/2 of an acre with a walk behind. Now I had 2+ acres to mow with 4 or so in the future. We were installing fencing, moving felled trees, landscaping, clearing out honeysuckle, planting grass (both field and lawn). The best advice I got was to find a local dealer that sold one of the well supported brands. It does not take long on here to find out which brands are probably worth looking at. I found a dealer that has given some support when needed, but I have not needed too much. I really appreciate all the time Messicks puts in on this forum and YouTube. If you don't live in a community with lots of local knowledge about tractors having an online resource from other owners is so valuable. The brochures don't tell much about actually using and comparing equipment.

AxelHub seems to do a lot of posting as what I would call elsewhere as being a fanboy. He tries to rationalize his brand purchase to protect his sense of self. See internet posts about cell phone brands, Ford vs Chevy trucks, video games systems. Sometimes this devotion can be helpful as he puts lots of time in comparing the smallest things between products, but you also have to read between the lines as there is favoritism to the product he purchased.

 

[tractorshopper]

Greetings Tractorshopper,

However I also followed the Kubota promotions for years and my experience has been the following - Kubota offered 0% financing OR rebates - but not both combined. Big difference imo.

I actually disagree with this statement. I've bought three Kubotas so far and all 3 were rebates and zero percent. 1st part of 1st quarter each year are usually the lowest incentives, but the rest of the year each year in my recollection has pretty much been 0% for 60 months and routinely $1,500 off with additional implements.

 

[prichard]

I actually disagree with this statement. I've bought three Kubotas so far and all 3 were rebates and zero percent. 1st part of 1st quarter each year are usually the lowest incentives, but the rest of the year each year in my recollection has pretty much been 0% for 60 months and routinely $1,500 off with additional implements.

Exactly what I got on mine. 0% and $1500 on 2 implements. Basically got rotary cutter for free. Was that a "Free cutter promotion"?

 

[charlton289]

Where I live we have a green, blue, orange, red all within an hour drive when I got my GC 1705 I test drove the orange but I didn't like the trudle pedal and the green wouldn't even give the time as to they have that security wire attached and wouldn't undo it and they didn't have one that they just set up for a customer. So I went to the red which also sells the blue but I didn't see any of the blue that would fit my needs. The Massey was just what I was looking for and the deal I got was 2000 less than the orange with the same setup and free delivery and a tank of fuel. So I believe that it comes down to what you need and the best deal and the dealer and how they treat you before during and after the sale whether you can get a rebate and 0 percent and like I got with mine a tax exemption for being a hobby farmer or you run cattle, horses, or something else that the county or town considers tax exempt so in my opinion it's up to you and your needs and or the dealer location to meet your needs.

 

[AxleHub]

. . . . . . . .


AxelHub seems to do a lot of posting as what I would call elsewhere as being a fanboy. He tries to rationalize his brand purchase to protect his sense of self. See internet posts about cell phone brands, Ford vs Chevy trucks, video games systems. Sometimes this devotion can be helpful as he puts lots of time in comparing the smallest things between products, but you also have to read between the lines as there is favoritism to the product he purchased.

Greetings Thirdman,

I was intrigued by part of your post shown above. You stated: "He tries to rationalize his brand purchase to protect his sense of self." That's quite a diagnosis considering you've never met me - don't know my career path - and seem unaware of my motivations. You don't know if I write with a smile on my face or with my teeth clamped together. You're diagnosis strikes me much like a recent study announced on Good Morning America today. The study "clearly showed" that eating dark chocolate each day will make a person smarter and the supporting data was testing they did on people before and after they ate dark chocolate over a 30 day period.

Unfortunately at the end of the discussion of the study and all its potential benefits - it popped out that the diagnosis and result was based on a "small study" - five people (5) study. Not 500 or 5000 or 50,000 - but 5.

By the way - how about your "study"? Cell phone brands and Video game systems ??? I don't even own a video game system. Somehow your "study" on me seems to have some cross referencing issues - and logically makes your profiling rather error prone or assumption based potentially - don't you think ?

You would be correct when you stated I compare many things and specifics between products - thats the nature of my career path. But reading between the lines often keeps someone from actually reading the lines actually written . . . and specifics on any product - mine or someone else's are both positive and negative in what I write - again part of my career path and not related to my "protecting my sense of self".

But the most curious statement is that comparing my product chosen to another product I was considering - shows favoritism . . . . isn't that what everyone does - they choose the item they think benefits them the most? (price, features, fit, size, or whatever else). Isn't that the same as saying I chose chicken over veal because I like chicken better for my tastes ?

Maybe you can get back to us about the cell phone brands and video game systems I supposedly posted about. Thanks.

By the way - its not AxelHub - its AxleHub.

 

[AxleHub]

Greetings Fellow TBNer's,

Well when I started this thread I certainly expected to see some confuse sales numbers with marketshare - and we've seen that numerous times. But I didn't expect to see the tenacity to claim I said things that I actually didn't say (like Kubota is failing - as just one example). And after numerous years reading and posting on TBN I understood that there are some pretty sharp people posting and reading - and you better be prepared to defend your statements and reasoning with examples or specifics.

Now I have to confess something I discovered just today. While the things I was posting about were true and the reasoning logical - I discovered an error I was unaware of. And just as concerning is that while many have responded thus far to this thread - not a single poster came up with this fact that would have altered a part of the thread's direction very quickly. I apologize that I had to find it myself today instead of when this thread started - and I'm also quite discouraged that some of the responses by others were far too emotional or assumptive - instead of finding the same fact I found today.

Here it is: From the very first opening post I clearly stated that Kubota was doing something quite different than its done before to my knowledge. It was doing 0% financing - doing it for 84 months instead of the normal 48 or 60 or even 72 month - and having both a discounted set price and including a mower deck as well. In other words combining what Kubota BX product has normally always done individually - rebates and discounts vs 0% financing (but not both) - and advertising it heavily in an effort to maintain its scut marketshare it prior had.

That was and has been my focus on this thread to date.

And what did I discover today that no one has posted in all these posts - the fine print of the offer is not 0% financing. Its 0% financing on the balance after a 20% down payment.

And why is that a significant point? Because On a BX 1880 instead of $8316 plus tax paid over 84 months that little detail makes it $10,395 plus tax and insurance.


So I apologize that I was spending as much time fending off other posters commentary - that I didn't discover that detail. But it sure makes me question why out of all those poster comments - no one came up with it either. Several claimed I was uninformed or doing it out of personal reasons - yet they didn't point it out either.

Does it change the fact that Kubota is trying to defend and support its marketshare? No

Does it change the fact Kubota is forcing dealers to limit their selling margin on this promotion ? No

But it does change the fact that its not a true 0% financing and explains the deck included in the fixed pricing - or the $129 unit, deck, and loader pricing and that there is discounting being done at the dealer margin level.

So I missed it and I apologize that I wasn't aware of that small but significant detail.

 

[AxleHub]

Charlton,

Well said.

 

[ishiboo]

I actually disagree with this statement. I've bought three Kubotas so far and all 3 were rebates and zero percent. 1st part of 1st quarter each year are usually the lowest incentives, but the rest of the year each year in my recollection has pretty much been 0% for 60 months and routinely $1,500 off with additional implements.

When I purchased my Kioti, that was true. And in shopping for a new subcompact, that is still true for Kioti... the 0% for 60 is in lieu of basically all of the cash rebates. The additional $2600 on the CS2410 meant that it was priced basically the same as the Kubota and Deere.

In this round, both Kubota and Deere are $200 higher for 0% for 60. I was going to pay cash, but to have that much tied up when there is 0% for 60 it doesn't make sense. The Kubota dealer was willing to eat their $200, the Deere dealer initially told me he would as well, but then said he'd split it with me.

The Deere insurance is a 1-time fee for the life of the financing which is substantially lower than KTAC.

All in all, the machines compete very well against eachother and Kubota is no longer the price leader versus highest quality IMO... but I think I've settled on a new 1025r. That said, I think all of them are really nice machines these days.