L3700 PTO Noise - Normal?

   / L3700 PTO Noise - Normal? #1  

e30racer

New member
Joined
Aug 15, 2010
Messages
20
Location
North Carolina
Tractor
Kubota L3700SU
I'm new to this forum and this is my first post. I just purchased my first tractor two weeks ago, an L3700 SU with FEL, Box blade, and 60' Land Pride rotary mower. I've noticed that when I engage the PTO at idle RPM (800) and completly let off the clutch that something starts making a fairly loud rattling/knocking noise. The noise sounds like it is coming directly below the drivers seat. Once I increase RPM to 1500 or so the rattle/knock completely smooths out and disappears. Is this normal or should I take the machine back to my dealer to have it looked at? Thanks for any info you can provide.

Steven
 
   / L3700 PTO Noise - Normal? #2  
OH boy lots of opinions on this one:


I'm new to this forum and this is my first post. I just purchased my first tractor two weeks ago, an L3700 SU with FEL, Box blade, and 60' Land Pride rotary mower. I've noticed that when I engage the PTO at idle RPM (800) and completly let off the clutch that something starts making a fairly loud rattling/knocking noise. The noise sounds like it is coming directly below the drivers seat. Once I increase RPM to 1500 or so the rattle/knock completely smooths out and disappears. Is this normal or should I take the machine back to my dealer to have it looked at? Thanks for any info you can provide.

Steven



Don't start the PTO at low idle and it will not be an issue as the motor and drive train are loaded up with more demand due to engaging the Power Take Off at low idle.

You should engage the PTO at the PTO marking for that engine speed on the tachometer, and leave the throttle at that setting when running the implement.
 
   / L3700 PTO Noise - Normal? #3  
I never engage the PTO at "low idle", depending on the tractor 1500 or a little faster. It should be in your Operator Manual.

At a slow idle, you are going to get a lot of feedback until you spool up and the blades stop flapping around and settle into their extended position.
 
   / L3700 PTO Noise - Normal? #4  
It could simply be the chain that keeps the plastic shield from turning flapping around. According to the manual (and just normal good sense) you should not engage the PTO at high (540 PTO speed) RPM.
 
   / L3700 PTO Noise - Normal? #5  
I have the L3700 also and often start my PTO at well below the 540 marking without any noise or clunking. Tonight I was starting the post hole digger at right about idle without any problems or noises. This also sounds odd to me and may be worth more inspection.
Good luck
 
   / L3700 PTO Noise - Normal? #6  
I keep hearing people saying they are nervous about the high engine rpms on the Kubotas, but I am new to tractors and don't have the background with the older equipment to be aware of the "standard" rpm for a tractor.

I normally consider 1500 rpm to be about as low as I go on starting the tractor or engaging the PTO. It sounds fine to me and I have not noticed any PTO noise other than the blades on the cutter spinning up. My manual says to engage the PTO at a middle rpm, but sometimes I forget and engage at full 540 speed (2500 engine rpm). I can tell the diff on the blade spin-up sounds, but either way still sounds okay to me.
 
   / L3700 PTO Noise - Normal? #7  
I always engage my PTO at idle RPM (around 800 I think). I simply feather the PTO lever until everything is turning, then engage it fully. The engine never skips a beat.

I think this is easier on everything involved. Engaging the PTO at a higher RPM (1500 or so) may not be a big deal, but I can't imagine engaging it at the "PTO speed" as suggested above. This seems like it would be very hard on the PTO clutch pack.

As long as you have a "good touch" with your PTO lever, you shouldn't load down the engine at all. Trust me, I am very much "in touch" with my tractor and would change my tune if I thought the engine was being loaded down and/or things didn't sound right.
 
   / L3700 PTO Noise - Normal?
  • Thread Starter
#8  
The owners manual says to "Engage the PTO at reduced engine speed to avoid shock loads to the PTO". It does not define what "reduced" is so the wording definitely leaves some room for interpretation.

BTW, I know the noise is not coming from my rotary mower blades or gear box. The noise definitely emanates from below the drivers seat somewhere in the driveline.

Could anyone with a later model L3400 or L3700 that either does or has engaged their PTO at idle speed tell me if they get the same clatter/rattle/knock that smoothes out at RPM's increase?

thanks,
Steven
 
   / L3700 PTO Noise - Normal? #9  
L3400, I engage at around 1000 to 1200 or so usually, above idle speed, but no where near the PTO 540 mark. have never heard any unusual noises.. if you do, I would have it looked at. If your cutter or other rotary implement is off of the tractor and you engage the PTO does it still make the noise?
James K0UA
 
   / L3700 PTO Noise - Normal? #10  
I always engage my PTO at idle RPM (around 800 I think). I simply feather the PTO lever until everything is turning, then engage it fully. The engine never skips a beat.

I think this is easier on everything involved. Engaging the PTO at a higher RPM (1500 or so) may not be a big deal, but I can't imagine engaging it at the "PTO speed" as suggested above. This seems like it would be very hard on the PTO clutch pack.

As long as you have a "good touch" with your PTO lever, you shouldn't load down the engine at all. Trust me, I am very much "in touch" with my tractor and would change my tune if I thought the engine was being loaded down and/or things didn't sound right.

When I tried running my Woods DS1260 with the M8540 at idle, my engine blew black smoke and bogged down before recovering. Mine works fine at about 1250. Now if I ever run it with my Land Pride 6', it will be a different situation. My L5030 needs a about 1250 or better for the LP. I just use what gets a smooth start with the tractor/equipment being offered. I have gotten to the point I usually don't even look at the tach any more.
 
   / L3700 PTO Noise - Normal? #11  
The owners manual says to "Engage the PTO at reduced engine speed to avoid shock loads to the PTO". It does not define what "reduced" is so the wording definitely leaves some room for interpretation.

BTW, I know the noise is not coming from my rotary mower blades or gear box. The noise definitely emanates from below the drivers seat somewhere in the driveline.

Could anyone with a later model L3400 or L3700 that either does or has engaged their PTO at idle speed tell me if they get the same clatter/rattle/knock that smoothes out at RPM's increase?

thanks,
Steven

In general, I try to engage the PTO at the lowest speed that the engine won't stall, and that varies from one implement to another depending on the amount of inertia they have. My rotary cutter and drivetrain is noisy (Land Pride 1860) at idle. The PTO power pulses aren't smooth enough at idle for smooth operation, until you get up to about 1100-1300 rpm when things even out. Essentially what is happening is the engine is trying to spin the cutter, then the cutter is trying to spin the engine. I can engage it at idle if I'm careful with the clutch, but I probably bump it up 100 rpm or so before engaging.

The post hole auger is smooth as silk when engaging, even at idle, it has much less inertia to overcome. Also, it has an under-driven gearbox, output speed is less than input. The rotary cutter is over-driven, the output speed is greater than the input.

As for engaging the PTO at full PTO rpm, that's the same as engaging the transmission in your car at the engine rpm you normally drive on the highway. Very hard on clutches and driveline, and something I personally would not recommend. You're asking the cutter, which has considerable inertia, to instantly spin up to full speed. A hydraulic drive can cope with that to a certain degree, but a friction clutch isn't going to do well long-term under those conditions.

If yours is an HST, I'd recommend engaging the PTO at just above idle, enough that the engine won't stall, then ramp it up gradually to full speed or wherever you plan to operate it. I run my rotary cutter anywhere from 2000 to 2400 engine rpm. I have an L3400 DT (gear drive). I suspect your PTO 540 on the L3700 equates to about 2350 engine rpm?

Not sure if the HST model has a foot throttle or not, if it does I'd recommend using it to get the mower turning. The hand throttle is a bit clumsy in comparison, but works ok once you're rolling along.

As to whether you have a problem (defect) or not, it's possible. It's hard to tell without actually hearing or feeling it, the dealer may be your best resource for peace of mind. Protect that warranty just in case you need it !

My 2 cents,

Sean
 
   / L3700 PTO Noise - Normal?
  • Thread Starter
#12  
I appreciate everyone's inputs. It sounds like the noise is normal but I'll probably take it to my dealer and have it checked out this winter while the tractor is still under warrenty.

This forum is going to be a valuable tool and a real benefit to me as a Kubota owner. Thanks to everyone who participates here!

Steven
 
   / L3700 PTO Noise - Normal? #13  
I am away from my manual until Friday, but if I recall correctly it states to utilize the clutch when engaging the PTO. It recommends to engage the clutch quickly and disengage slowly.

When I have forgotten to slow things down and have engaged the PTO at a high engine rpm, the clutch technique allows the PTO to spin up with a similar sounds as I hear when increasing the engine speed after fully releasing the clutch. I don't think there is any difference in PTO load shock, but rather I might be putting more wear on the clutch if anything. Being new to tractors I had not thought much about it before. Glad to be getting some new perspectives before I break anything.
 
   / L3700 PTO Noise - Normal? #14  
The owners manual says to "Engage the PTO at reduced engine speed to avoid shock loads to the PTO". It does not define what "reduced" is so the wording definitely leaves some room for interpretation.

BTW, I know the noise is not coming from my rotary mower blades or gear box. The noise definitely emanates from below the drivers seat somewhere in the driveline.

Could anyone with a later model L3400 or L3700 that either does or has engaged their PTO at idle speed tell me if they get the same clatter/rattle/knock that smoothes out at RPM's increase?

thanks,
Steven

There's something wrong with your tractor.
 
   / L3700 PTO Noise - Normal? #15  
I have a new L3700 and have the same sounds at low RPM that go away as I increase the RPM. Dealer said that was normal. We probably have a year to figure out if it is a problem or not.
 
   / L3700 PTO Noise - Normal? #16  
My L3400 will rattle a little bit at idle. The rattle goes away when I disengage the clutch. I believe the rattle is the HST pump. It has always done this and has 270 trouble free hours.

Now as far as the PTO goes, I engage it at idle with a 6 foot finish mower and slowly let the clutch out. Then I gradually speed up to PTO RPM. There are no rattles during this process except the one that is always there from the HST pump if the PTO is on or off.

If I disengage the clutch there is a loud rattle from the OR clutch. This is why I disengage the clutch and PTO at the same instant.

I wonder if the L3400 and L3700 use the same PTO clutch setup. I have not even seen an L3700 yet. They are widening the highway by my dealer so I have have been avoiding stopping by as I used to do. That's probably saving me money.
 
   / L3700 PTO Noise - Normal?
  • Thread Starter
#17  
Yesterday evening I engaged the PTO with RPM's set at 1300 and there was absolutely no noise at all.
 
   / L3700 PTO Noise - Normal? #18  
Yesterday evening I engaged the PTO with RPM's set at 1300 and there was absolutely no noise at all.

That is about what I engage mine at. I see absolutely no reason to engage at idle. I have been driving tractors for well over fifty years and have a couple over fifty years old and have never broken or worn anything out operating the way I do. These are tractors built for work.
 
   / L3700 PTO Noise - Normal? #19  
60' Land Pride rotary mower... engage the PTO at idle RPM (800)
I think you've figured out already that the situation described is "normal" for trying to spin up an overdriven 5' blade at idle. Ever owned a riding mower, try to engage the deck at idle? If you didn't stall it, didn't it at least try to shake itself apart? Same thing. Likely the rattling/knocking you heard was driveline slack being jerked back & forth by the cutter. If you could hear all of the slop in your car's transmission in a high gear at idle with its wheels off the ground, it would probably scare you. ;)

~1300 sounds like it works and has the consensus of most readers, so go with that. :thumbsup:

... and the blades stop flapping around and settle into their extended position.
flapping? extending?
I'm thinking you might need some heavier blades, or at least ones not made of rubber. :D
 
   / L3700 PTO Noise - Normal?
  • Thread Starter
#20  
I think you've figured out already that the situation described is "normal"

I have definitely reached the conclusion that everything seems to be normal. I've talked to the service dept at 4 different dealers and have been told that "they all do that". Although when I asked why, only 1 of the 4 provided the same explanation that Chilly and Diez gave (and which I am convinced is the correct explanation).

I did try engaging at 1100rpm last night and everything was quiet and smooth there also. Again, I appreciate everyone's input.

Steven
 

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