L45 vs M59 - or skidsteer

[c304]

About the stumps, maybe this needs a different thread, but if you aren't building a structure on the site, or trying to run pipes there, why would you need to dig out a root ball like that vs just burning/grinding it a few inches below grade and covering with topsoil? My goal right now is just getting rid of the trip hazard these things are in my yard. My 9 year old tripped and broke his elbow this fall on one, so that's part of my motivation.

As to the condition of the tractors, the M59 I was looking at had 1700 hours, but it just sold. The L45 is still available, and it has 1900 hours. It's about 1 hour from me, so I plan on visiting the dealer this week. Another hour more in the same direction, however, is another M59 that came on the market. It is equipped the same as the L45. Has thumb, but no remotes. It only has 620 hours. So 1/3 as many hours. It costs $12K more, though. So part of my brain is saying "the remotes you need to add are sunk into the machine and you'll never be able to reuse them elsewhere, so put them on the better machine with fewer hours and you'll get more use out of them" while another part of my brain says "$12K will pay for all the remotes and attachments you need".

 

[rScotty]

....SNIP..... So part of my brain is saying "the remotes you need to add are sunk into the machine and you'll never be able to reuse them elsewhere, so put them on the better machine with fewer hours and you'll get more use out of them" while another part of my brain says "$12K will pay for all the remotes and attachments you need".

Maybe I'm missing something here. I'm curious what kind of work are you anticipating to be doing that makes rear remotes a "need to add" item? I'm sure there are some jobs like that, and equally sure that I don't know all the applications - but for the work I've done the normal manual adjustments built into every 3pt will do the job. Sure, it's not as convenient as just pushing a lever without moving off the tractor seat, but for most jobs manual adjustment works just fine.

Hmmm....it occurs to me that I'm a bit biased, though. Truth is, I'm am sorta old fashioned & often as not it helps me to get off the tractor and walk back along to take a look at what an implement is doing to the ground. Making a slight change to the 3pt screw/crank adjusters while I'm back there is second nature. Those adjusters have a lot of geometric advantage too - once they are set up close to right, a turn or so on the hand screw is all that is needed.

Remotes can always be added. Low hours are really, really desirable on a used tractor.
Good luck,
rScotty

 

[c304]

The three main implements I want for the rear are an offset flail mower, a snowblower, and some sort of grading blade for the drive. The flail mower needs hydraulics to run the offsets. But once I have that, then the hydraulics can be used for the snow blower or blade.

I know there's different types of hours on a machine, and some are cared for and other are not, just like cars, but for a Kubota TLB, is 1900 hours too much? I'm just a homeowner doing yard work, so I figured if I put 150 hours a year on it, I'll be surprised. Figured if I kept it under 4000 hours before I die it would still be fine. But is that too much to ask from these engines and transmissions? Most of the used ones I see are in the 1000-1500 range, and I assumed that was because they were coming from commercial owners like landscapers and property managers who cycle out equipment quickly.

Oh, and local rental yard replaced their L39 with an L45, so I booked a 1 day rental this week. $320 with delivery and tax. No one rents an M59 near me, but at least I can see if I think the L45 is up to the loader/backhoe tasks I need. I'll just have some fun digging holes and backfilling them and such to get a feel for the size/weight of the L45. Maybe I'll drive through the brush and see if I feel like the clearance is gonna be too much of a liability.

 

[rScotty]

The three main implements I want for the rear are an offset flail mower, a snowblower, and some sort of grading blade for the drive. The flail mower needs hydraulics to run the offsets. But once I have that, then the hydraulics can be used for the snow blower or blade.

I know there's different types of hours on a machine, and some are cared for and other are not, just like cars, but for a Kubota TLB, is 1900 hours too much? I'm just a homeowner doing yard work, so I figured if I put 150 hours a year on it, I'll be surprised. Figured if I kept it under 4000 hours before I die it would still be fine. But is that too much to ask from these engines and transmissions? Most of the used ones I see are in the 1000-1500 range, and I assumed that was because they were coming from commercial owners like landscapers and property managers who cycle out equipment quickly.

Oh, and local rental yard replaced their L39 with an L45, so I booked a 1 day rental this week. $320 with delivery and tax. No one rents an M59 near me, but at least I can see if I think the L45 is up to the loader/backhoe tasks I need. I'll just have some fun digging holes and backfilling them and such to get a feel for the size/weight of the L45. Maybe I'll drive through the brush and see if I feel like the clearance is gonna be too much of a liability.

OK... you've convinced me on the rear remotes - especially for the mower. I don't use a flail mower & never have. I use an old style 3pt pull-behind PTO-driven rotary slasher with a trailing wheel. It does the job, but it cannot offset, and that's where a flail type has to be better. Plus mine sometimes throws rocks and golfballs like bullets. Snow blowers are usually PTO-driven because of the HP requirement; no offset on PTO driven equipment of course. A grading blade could be either manual or hydraulic. Hydraulic is more convenient, although more of a hassle to mount when changing to 3pt mode due to the additional complexity. I see the need for rear remotes, though.

Your anticipation of 150 hrs/year for your homeowner work seems reasonable to me. It's about what I do.
Is 1900 hrs too much? No, I wouldn't think so. Depends on history of course. Certainly I expect my own homeowner machine to hit that mark without anything more than routine service. That seems reasonable, but we just don't know. There are a lot of M59s out there, and most have less than 2000 hrs - but they are looking good so far. For some reason there are not nearly so many L45s on TBN. So less data. That might be simply because when the M59 came out it was offered as a package with a lot of extras for an attractive price and the L45 wasn't out yet. As I remember, the L45 with HST+ came along a few years later. So lot of M59s were bought in the first two years that they were available. That could explain fewer L45s. It is just that lacking long term data, both low hours & homeowner owned become bigger positives.

Renting one to try it out is an excellent idea! Money well spent. I'm curious to know how it turns out.
Luck,
rScotty

 

[Fallon]

CUTs & small TBLs are plumb worn out at 6,000-10,000 hours, depending on how they were maintained, used & stored. Less if heavily abused, like in a rental situation. Probably needing a fair bit if maintenance & repairs to get there even if not abused.

So your under 2000 hour machine has well over 2/3 of it's life left if it wasn't abused.

I tend to agree with the why dig out sumps question. They are a huge pain to dig. As they rot, they decrease in size. Huge problem if it's around a foundation or burried pipe/conduit. But if it's in the middle of a yard, you can just dump a partial bucket of dirt over the depression that shows up every year. I'd vote for grinding/burning the top & burying if you can get away with it.

 

[caballero59]

I thought a skid steer was a great idea until I actually got one. I bought a backhoe attachment for it (a Deere extenda hoe which is no longer made) and it was cool but kind of a joke unless doing very small jobs. I hated driving the skid down a hill with the backhoe on! The skid steer was compact for storing and turning on a dime but was crammed together for doing maintenance, and was **** on the yard. I replaced that with an L39 and liked it much better than the skid. Also have an M59 which is much more tractor than the L39, or at least the FEL does much much more work. The backhoes do not seem all that different in their capacities. The M59 is a nice compromise. Ive considered a 580 many times but going from 8300 lbs to 16000 is a big deal. I used to pull a Case 650G with a little Cummins so I guess I could drag a 580 around but I'd rather not. The M59 with thumb and grapple is a "leatherman" for the ranch. Many things can be picked up and moved by chaining them to the FEL bucket but you hold your breath when moving. With thumb or bucket, just grab them and cruise. Many things that never got done with our Deere 7210 or Deere 6415, suddenly were done when the M59 with thumb and grapple rolled off the trailer.

 

[c304]

So the rental place dropped off the L45 a day early and they're coming back on Monday to pick it up. Apparently they had a lot of deliveries scheduled.

We had an ice storm last night and so everything is frozen and it was pretty windy too, so I had to really bundle up. The rental yard didn't bother removing the 2 cubic foot ice cube from the backhoe bucket, but the kids got a kick out it when I finally got it loose.

It's smaller than I was expecting. I'm only 6' and there's no way I can swivel in that seat, my knees and feet have nowhere to go. The L-N-M-N-H lever is really hard to use on this particular unit, but I don't know if that's normal. Needed two hands to shift. It has 900 hours, but all rental, and it looks roughed up. The parking brake also didn't have a good feel on it.

The ground here is frozen so that doesn't help, but the backhoe was really struggling with a 24" bucket to break some of the rocks out of the ground. I'm sure I need a lot more practice, but I was surprised how easily the bucket would just freeze. Wasn't slow, it just couldn't curl and break the rocks out of the soil. I don't know if the wheels are filled or not, but it was kinda scary how easily the backhoe could drag the whole tractor around. The outriggers just dragged along the topsoil. Maybe the parking brake wasn't set right. I'll check that tomorrow. The overall backhoe reach also seemed short. When I read that it was a 10' backhoe, I was thinking "I won't need to dig 10' deep holes" but what I wasn't thinking is that you can only dig a few feet before you need to reposition and you can't empty the bucket more than maybe 8 feet on either side. So that was disappointing, but I also know that ~$30K isn't really going to get you a lot of backhoe, especially when you can remove it and run a 3 point off the back.

I had fun for an hour before I had to get back to my desk job. I think I'll like having something around, hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to decide if I can live with the L45 size.

 

[rScotty]

So the rental place dropped off the L45 a day early and they're coming back on Monday to pick it up. SNIP
We had an ice storm last night and so everything is frozen and it was pretty windy too, so I had to really bundle up. The rental yard didn't bother removing the 2 cubic foot ice cube from the backhoe bucket, but the kids got a kick out it when I finally got it loose.

That's Too bad about the weather. I was hoping you'd get a chance to try it out more comfortably. How did it start in the cold? It can take a long time to warm the engine in cold weather - and longer yet to warm up the trans/hydaulic fluid. There are days when it just doesn't warm up even after half an hour of fast idle - I know that because I can hear the hydraulic pumps and HST pumps making a different & louder noise than usual. When that happens I always go real easy on the machine until the work itself warms the fluid. That's the sort of thing that a home-owner does as a matter of course, but a rental may get different treatment.
AS TO WHETHER THE DIFFERENCE IN WARM UP TREATMENTS REALLY MAKES A DIFFERENCE? ..... ?? Who knows? We all have opinions, but very little real evidence.

It's smaller than I was expecting. I'm only 6' and there's no way I can swivel in that seat, my knees and feet have nowhere to go. The L-N-M-N-H lever is really hard to use on this particular unit, but I don't know if that's normal. Needed two hands to shift. It has 900 hours, but all rental, and it looks roughed up. The parking brake also didn't have a good feel on it.

I was wondering how you would feel about the size but didn't want to influence your first impression. The L48 was the same way for me...just too small to comfortably spin the seat around in.
I'm 6' 180 lbs, average build, with large feet. That's not exactly huge, but the cab was just a little too snug for comfort. And sometimes I like to half stand as I turn around or do something - hard to do with a low ceiling was low. The M59 is a size larger. There's room for a tool bag and to move around comfortably.

The LNMNH lever is a pain in all the Kubota TLBs. I can't imagine why, but at least they are all that way. If you look at old threads it's been mentioned a bunch. Mine has never loosened up; I move it by rocking and then bumping it. I've got better at rock&bump motion, but it is me that has changed; the lever hasn't loosened up since new. HINT: Use the left foot clutch when you go to move the lever, sometimes that helps a lot...other times, nothing. Luckily, most of your work can be done in one range while using the Hi/Low lever on the steering wheel.

The parking brake might be a concern. It is designed as a wet brake and lives in the transmission housing. Very hard to get to, and it can shed particles into the trans/hydraulic fluid. Lots of tractors are built that way these days, but most of them have a better parking brake warning system than Kubota has, along with a better position for the hand brake lever. You may have noticed that the parking brake warning symbol is somewhere half behind your right shoulder. Why not have it on the dash???
The first year I had our M59 I accidently left the parking brake engaged far too many times. The HST will overpower the parking brake and it's not until the friction heats up the brake pads that I would notice that it seemed down on power and figured out what was happening. Plus the hand lever is right where my feet need to go when turning around. So I disconnected the parking brake and removed the hand lever. You can still park by locking the foot brakes, but of course than can lead to the same problem. When parking I put the bucket edge down. It's not going anywhere then.

The ground here is frozen so that doesn't help, but the backhoe was really struggling with a 24" bucket to break some of the rocks out of the ground. I'm sure I need a lot more practice, but I was surprised how easily the bucket would just freeze. Wasn't slow, it just couldn't curl and break the rocks out of the soil. I don't know if the wheels are filled or not, but it was kinda scary how easily the backhoe could drag the whole tractor around. The outriggers just dragged along the topsoil. Maybe the parking brake wasn't set right. I'll check that tomorrow. The overall backhoe reach also seemed short. When I read that it was a 10' backhoe, I was thinking "I won't need to dig 10' deep holes" but what I wasn't thinking is that you can only dig a few feet before you need to reposition and you can't empty the bucket more than maybe 8 feet on either side. So that was disappointing, but I also know that ~$30K isn't really going to get you a lot of backhoe, especially when you can remove it and run a 3 point off the back.

A good backhoe will always be able to throw a tractor around. If the ground was not frozen you would see the feet and FEL bucket sink in to stabilize you. Then the trick is not to let the hoe throw it around. The feet and FEL bucket do far more to stabilize it than the parking brake. Again, unfrozen ground helps there too. Don't judge by trying it in frozen ground. As for the depth and spill, you get used to that. The inching control is a real wonderful idea...thanks, Kubota!! Yes, an excavator is better, but the hoe is very useful.

Good luck, rScotty

 

[c304]

This unit has the padded feet, like for paved surfaces. So it's not really "biting" into the turf. It's just sliding and making a mess. I've got all the wheels off the ground and the bucket is preventing it from pushing the tractor, but the loader bucket doesn't do anything to prevent it from pulling the tractor.

The inching is neat, but it didn't work going up any sort of incline. And disengaging the front parking brake from the reversed seat is impossible. And yeah, the rear parking brake not being engaged while you swivel the seat seems unsafe. I was on a hill and started to roll while I was spinning the seat around. I dropped the legs and stopped the roll, but I should have been able to leave the parking brake on. Strange design.

For the small homeowner type stuff, like digging out rocks in the yard, moving compost, tending the gravel drive, dragging fallen trees, etc., I think this machine is fine. When it comes to re-grading the yard to drain better, I doubt even the M59 is going to be enough. I either need to get some pros with heavy equipment back here or come up with an active drain system that pumps uphill. The ground was frozen, so I'm sure that's not helping, but just sitting out there looking at how many cubic yards of shale and dirt will need to be moved and how many hundreds of feet I'll need to move them... It's either an all-summer job for a small TLB and this homeowner, or it's a job for a real crew with much larger machines like bulldozers and such.

 

[Fallon]

Every HST transmission I've ever seen or used has been hard to shift at times. They are all 2 or more commonly 3 speed unsynchronized crash boxes. You often have to gently bump the go pedal or let the machine roll a little. Letting off the brakes gently while on a little slope often makes shifting easiest. If the machine is rolling more that a little, things grind though.

My economy Kubota & new Grand Kubota are/were that way. The John Deere, TYM & LS I test drove we're all the exact same way as well so that's not unique to Kubota or that TBL. Annoying, but not that big of a deal as you don't shift a HST that often.