L6060 Hard Starting In Cold Weather

[5030]

If compression was an issue, it would smoke. It don't. Heck, my one Kubota has 6000 meter hours on it and the compression is still within factory specs. Kubota motors are pretty durable so long as you don't ever use either on them.

 

[5030]

The biggest problem is, at least on my Kubota, that the relays are behind the dash. For a cabbed tractor it could be a little tricky to get to them.

On my open station M, they are. On my cab M, they are below the dash next to the fuse box. Actually very easy to access.

 

[rScotty]

almost new tractor or not this sounds like low compression. I would have the dealer check it.

That's right. Hilbilly, the thing mechanics always worry about on diesels is low compression, because they are "compression ignition" engines. It sounds like you know that, so this is for anyone who might not. Compression of the incoming charge is what causes a diesel to ignite the fuel. Compression is a diesel's "spark plug". upper cylinder compression may be related to oil consumption, but not always. It could be valve clearance for example...

Although eventual old age and low compression is the ultimate fate of all good diesels (and all internal combustion engines for that matter), I agree that it is rare in young ones and that Kubotas seem particularly durable and resistant to that particular wear.

So much so that when I bought my last Kubota I did so knowing that it had over 30 hours as a demo - which meant that it had almost certainly been started cold and revved as a matter of course - but it didn't worry me. It sounded right, and started from cold so I figured it was OK and it still is.

From a mechanic's viewpoint - that's me for many years - you check compression for two reasons....
First of all you check because the main symptom of low compression is hard starting when cold. When warmed up even a low compression diesel makes decent power, so power doesn't work as a test. Some consume oil and some don't, so that isn't diagnostic either.
The other reason - and the best reason to measure the compression - is just to eliminate engine compression as a possible problem. That's important to do because if a diesel has good compression it's a good bet that that engine is pretty much golden throughout. With good compression all the other problems become easy. They are easier to find and worthwhile to fix. Basically you check the compression so you don't have to worry about it & can get down to fixing what needs to be done.

So ask your dealer to please measure the compression. On a new diesel the injectors are still easy to get in and out - it's not much harder than pulling spark plugs. He can test it and put it back as it was in half an hour. Or any diesel mobile unit can do in an hour along with a sandwich and some conversation.

And then you can stop worrying about that dumb salesman....
good luck,
rScotty

 

[Rancho C Don]

I cycle the glow plugs on & off twice before trying to start. It fires up right away every time!

 

[priberc]

Ever since I got the L6060 I've noticed it was hard starting in cold weather, even after the block heater has been plugged in all night. Last year I called the dealer and told him of the issue and he said to use a multi meter and test across the plug terminals to see if there was resistance and there was. So this winter the same old problem again. This time I plugged in the block heater and put my finger on the part of the heater that sticks out of the block. It was so hot it almost burnt my fingers. However it is still hard to start. I then took a temperature reading of the engine coolant, using the intellipanel, and it indicated the coolant was 26*C before I started the engine. This morning at -26*C the tractor was hard to start and even stalled after the first attempt. The second attempt was successful but both times the glow plugs were on for a very long time before I started the engine. Then it took forever for the cab heater to start producing heat and it took a very long time before the engine temp gauge moved. The engine runs rough for a while and eventually settles down but this is so different from all the other diesel engines I have owned and still own. They all start very easy after being plugged in and it does not take long for them to produce heat. Something seems wrong with this setup.

Any ideas?

Looking at the posts before mine you have been getting nothing but good advice from the people here. Of particular interest to me is that you mention the tractor runs rough for a long time [or quits as you claim] on a cold start. Check your glow plugs. One weak one will be a deal breaker as far as starting in very cold temps like you are dealing with now. Sounds to me like you may have a set of weak ones with some working better than others or not at all. Looking at specifications for the tractor it looks like it doesn't come with the best of batteries either.....look for 900 CCA or better. 900 IMO 900 CCAs is the least you should have. No doubt about it if you can fit it in the battery box put it in bigger is better. 10w/30 is good but IMO 5w/40 oil is what should be in it year round. You should notice the engine spin over a little faster on start up in the winter with better hot weather lubrication qualities in the summer. As far as the engine temps not coming up/coming up slowly Cardboard is your best friend. When it warms up outside take the time and trim up a piece of card board and place it in front of your radiator. My radiator is 90% completely blocked off and it still takes some time to get up to temp. I see you are in Barrier....I am in Prince George BC -38c here this morning. All I have mentioned to you ,battery oil and for me a much better block heater, I had to do with my tractor here when I bought bought it. I feel your pain. Get those glow plugs thoroughly checked out ASAP. If there is any doubt change them all out

 

[Hilbilly]

What fuel are you using? Is it winterized diesel? If not, I would mix in some kerosene. It usually isn't ULS though so don't use too much.

I've had two L6060's. One open station and the other with a cab. Both start the same as all the other Kubota's I've owned. I don't get temps much below -20C here and the cranking speed does slow a bit when it does.

I will say the cab does take a long time to heat up. I usually start it and go tend the coal stove for 15 minutes or so.

I have a storage tank that I draw fuel from and it has some summer fuel in it. Before the big cold spell hit I added some anti gel to the tank. Yesterday I checked the fuel filter at the tank and the water separator on the tractor. Neither showed any sign of gelling, so I think I am ok there. I guess today's colder weather will be a test.

 

[Hilbilly]

This is what the WSM states about the GP system. "When the main switch is turned "ON", the temperature of the coolant is detected with the coolant temperature sensor, and the time to supply current to the glow plug and the glow indicator lamp is controlled by CPU according to the detected temperature. And the supply current to the glow plug is stopped automatically when the preheating time
is completed, and indicator lamp on the electronic meter panel is turned off." Then, perhaps the block heater is confusing the GP controller.

I went out this morning and used the IR Therm to check block temps. I found the block was anywhere from -25*F to -35*F. I checked the temp of the block heater and best I could tell it was 86*F. I then used the intellipanel to check coolant temp and it read 3*C. I cycled the GP's 3 times before trying to start but then the battery was just about dead. The engine spun but not fast enough and it did not even try to start. I put the battery charger on and will try again in a while. This time without the block heater plugged in. I might just grab another battery out of the warm shop and hook jumper cables up to the tractor battery. That should give it plenty of juice for the start up. One more try like that, then I may have to move it into the heated shop for some more serious investigation. Or call the dealer to see if this issue is covered under my existing warranty. The Basic Warranty is over but there is still some other warranty coverage.

Thanks to everyone for the great ideas. Obvioulsy a lot of very knowledgeable and helpful people here.

 

[newbury]

I just checked the Owners Manual and it states to use SAE 10W30 for temps below -10*C, which is what I am using.

I'll see how it does tomorrow. Supposed to get to -30*C tonight and it is plugged in now.

I've a 7.3 Ford dually, southern vehicle, no engine heater. Had difficulty starting it in the winter in northern Virginia w/ T6 15W40 when temps approached 10 below freezing, switched to T6 5W40 made a big difference.

 

[Hilbilly]

Well, I tried with 2 batteries in parallel, cycled the GP's twice then tried to start it. It spun up very well and seemed to try to start once and then started to knock. I shut it down, thinking I may have a new problem now. Could be gelled fuel. I can't even move the tractor in to the shop to warm it up. I have the front mount plow on the FEL and the rear snowblower attached. Both are sitting on the ground. My next attempt will be to cover the engine with blankets and tarps. Then put an electric heater under the engine, once the temps get a little higher.

 

[LouNY]

I don't know what your ambient temperature was when you tried to start,
but in sub zero F I have had to keep the starter turning when the engine started to fire
just to keep it going, even though it was firing it wasn't running good enough to carry it through.
It would seem at times it was for several revolutions. Till the noise and smoke would start to clear
and the engine smooth out and run.