Land lease scam

[JASTN70D]

"As far as damages, I think it would be pretty clear that he found the price is $1300 per hunter, it's what he charged them in bow. I think he charged 2x that in gun season. So the damage is from unjust enrichment (also from burning up google), he took money that should have been at least partly going into my pocket and directed it all to his. Punitively, I could claim all of it to punish him for his breach."

If you would look at this as you leased an Apartment. He had a party and charged for entry.. I dont see how you could recover for the value charged or any part of even though the lease may say no parties allowed.

I think that the hunters are also at risk of prosecution for trespass / illegal hunting.

Again the same. He had a lease and invited people over. They used the appliances while there.. Not that they were not technicaly Trespassing But it would be safe to assume they did not ask to read the Lease as you would not if invited to someones place. Good luck finding someone to take that up in court.

Sorry. It would make me very angry also.. Not sure you have any recourse that would be wise or cost efective

 

[john_bud]

"As far as damages, I think it would be pretty clear that he found the price is $1300 per hunter, it's what he charged them in bow. I think he charged 2x that in gun season. So the damage is from unjust enrichment (also from burning up google), he took money that should have been at least partly going into my pocket and directed it all to his. Punitively, I could claim all of it to punish him for his breach."

If you would look at this as you leased an Apartment. He had a party and charged for entry.. I dont see how you could recover for the value charged or any part of even though the lease may say no parties allowed.

I think that the hunters are also at risk of prosecution for trespass / illegal hunting.

Again the same. He had a lease and invited people on They used the appliances while there.. Not that they were not technicaly Trespassing But it would be safe to assum they did not ask to read the Lease as you would not if invited to someones place. Good luck finding someone to take that up in court.

Sorry. It would make me very angry also.. Not sure you have any recourse that would be wise or cost efective

I agree about the anger and the not so sure about the recourse. Small claims court is my only option.

I look at it like renting a warehouse. The lease calls for only one person admittance, but I sign knowing that I will have a blow out block party with a band, $1 beer, dancing, etc etc. I make $20,000 from the party. Are you saying that the warehouse owner can only can the lease and kick me free with my pockets bulging full of cash? It may be correct, but doesn't feel right! (Then again, i am currently a bit peeved.)

 

[RollingsFarms]

you mentioned the wardens trying to catch him. are others he has done this to pressing charges also? are you the only one going after him? have you seen him since the day the lease was signed, and does he know you're highly upset and planning to take action? not to sound like a money grubber or anything but around here(South Carolina where deer don't even come close to comparing in size as WI, etc.) people are paying a MINIMUM of $7-$20 PER ACRE. these are prices you don't even have to beg for, most of the time when it's advertised it doesn't take long for the lease to be purchased. next time, do yourself a favor and make sure you get your money's worth. not saying to try and get rich but find out what other properties are going for and charge accordingly.

 

[blueriver]

I think the hunter should become the hunted ... forget the lawyer, the warden just take it upon yourself to settle this.

 

[john_bud]

I think the hunter should become the hunted ... forget the lawyer, the warden just take it upon yourself to settle this.

That may play in OK or TX, but around here scum has more rights than the pond. If you know what I mean.


Rolling,

The "guide" called me just yesterday. He apologized for any confusion. May have forgot to get permission. No money changed hands, not something he does for a living. Just some buddies. Blah blah blah. Too bad 'cuz he's broke before the holidays, blah blah.

After talking to him, I contacted the warden. He was interviewed by them as part of an investigation. He had a whole different story. Got the land for guiding on it. Had 4 groups from 3 different states. Total money changing hands over $22,000. He had a hired guy guiding with no guide license. Told people it was 400 acres when it's only 80. Had stands on public land and claimed it was private. The hunters GPS'ed the stands and shared that information with the wardens, so they KNOW where he set them up. it goes on and on. He gives two faced lying scum a bad name. Oh, the warden didn't let on that he has been in close contact with me and let the moron play out a lot of rope.

As far as not knowing what the land lease was worth, yep. Ya got that one right on the head. A very eye opening discovery. Here's a couple pics of typical bucks. Would this put the land in the $7 or closer to the $20 per acre category?

 

[RollingsFarms]

That may play in OK or TX, but around here scum has more rights than the pond. If you know what I mean.


Rolling,

The "guide" called me just yesterday. He apologized for any confusion. May have forgot to get permission. No money changed hands, not something he does for a living. Just some buddies. Blah blah blah. Too bad 'cuz he's broke before the holidays, blah blah.

After talking to him, I contacted the warden. He was interviewed by them as part of an investigation. He had a whole different story. Got the land for guiding on it. Had 4 groups from 3 different states. Total money changing hands over $22,000. He had a hired guy guiding with no guide license. Told people it was 400 acres when it's only 80. Had stands on public land and claimed it was private. The hunters GPS'ed the stands and shared that information with the wardens, so they KNOW where he set them up. it goes on and on. He gives two faced lying scum a bad name. Oh, the warden didn't let on that he has been in close contact with me and let the moron play out a lot of rope.

As far as not knowing what the land lease was worth, yep. Ya got that one right on the head. A very eye opening discovery. Here's a couple pics of typical bucks. Would this put the land in the $7 or closer to the $20 per acre category?

that is some beautiful deer you have on your property!! around here, i could command $20+ per acre and i would have to fight off folks trying to hand me money to get a shot at deer like that. in SC, those size deer in your pics are "trophy bucks", but i would say they are about the norm for WI and surrounding areas. i'm not sure what prices per acerage go for in your area so i don't want to give you a figure when i know it would most likely be incorrect. just remember that if someone comes to you and seems "eager" to buy, rent, lease something you have, the ball is in your court to command a good price for your benefit. also consider this, the guy who was doing the "guiding" probably scouted your land for awhile and studied the signs of mature deer that are located there and knew he could make a killing by guiding hunts without your permission or you getting any piece of the pie. he knew what you had on your land and that he could get plenty of outsiders to come hunt. don't let this sway you from trusting deer hunters. there are far more good people who deer hunt and are honest then there are crooked people. just ask around about prices others are charging in your area. the game warden you have been dealing with could also tell you the going rate in your area.

 

[Tororider]

Well I know what JB and I are going to be doing next fall, guiding hunts on his property. We can split the $20k+ 50-50. Sound good to you JB. I will bring the hot chocolate.

 

[john_bud]

Well I know what JB and I are going to be doing next fall, guiding hunts on his property. We can split the $20k+ 50-50. Sound good to you JB. I will bring the hot chocolate.

Well, that would sound good if it were to work out. (The kind with the little marshmallows?)

 

[EddieWalker]

John,

Sorry to hear you were scamed. It's always a shame to hear of people taking advantage of anothers kindness. Other then canceling his contract and keeping the money, I doubt there's anything else you can do about. Maybe help the game wardens in their case to make sure he doesn't do it again.

One thing to be very cautious about is overhunting your land. It's the complaint with outfitters. They get a piece of land to hunt on, do good the first and second year, then there's nothing left and the clients get upset. The outfitter gets it from the lanowner and the clients, and disapears to just show up and do it again on another piece of land.

I was involved in a case in Idaho where an outfitter sold tresspass rights to hunt 30,000 acres of private land. Turned out to be about 2,000 acres that controlled most of the access to some National Forest land. There was a road to get to the National Forest land, and we used it for the hunt. He was doing allot of crazy stuff and the complaints got to the point where two Game Wardens drove out to my house in California to interview me and my hunting buddies. I had saved all my notes and brochures, which they said was very usefull in their case. I was to testify on a certain date, but the day before I was to fly out, he changed his plea and cut a deal. Loss of license, paid some small fines and pretty much walked away from it all.

The courts have bigger fish to fry and tend to look on wildlife violations as minor offences. The State of Idaho spent tens of thousands of dollars on the case, which the fine didn't come close to covering. Because it's so expensive for them to prosecute these things, they rarely do so.

Good luck,
Eddie

 

[tallyho8]

In hindsight, it probably would have helped to insert some penalty clauses in your lease clarifying what he would have to pay you if he broke the terms of the lease.

After saying that, I realize that I have 160 acres in the Ozarks National Forest, inside a wildlife management area, that I lease out for $500 a year plus he pays for the hunter's and the landowner's insurance policies on the property, and my lease agreement is all of three lines long.