Land lease scam

[john_bud]

In hindsight, it probably would have helped to insert some penalty clauses in your lease clarifying what he would have to pay you if he broke the terms of the lease.

After saying that, I realize that I have 160 acres in the Ozarks National Forest, inside a wildlife management area, that I lease out for $500 a year plus he pays for the hunter's and the landowner's insurance policies on the property, and my lease agreement is all of three lines long.

Cough cough -- giving it away --cough.

Uh, would you like to see my slightly longer version?

I blah blah blah'ed out the identifying parts, but that is what the guy signed. I thought it was good to go. We discussed the terms in depth and I made several word changes prior to the signing. Oh well. As they say, "Scam happens".

 

[joes_427_vette]

Hey John Bud;
You will be half an attorney before this is through. Now you know why I dont let anyone hunt my property. I don't want the grief connected to it. There are plenty of deer in this square mile cause only one section gets hunters ( owner is out of state ). I have been on more calls of tresspassing and holes shot in houses........ over a lousy 20# of venison. Some of these people never grow up and tramp through private property like they own it. Serves them right when they get caught. The fines are not high enough to get their attention.

 

[john_bud]

I got a letter back from the DA. He feels that there is no criminal case and that I need to find a lawyer for initiation of civil proceedings.

1/2 a lawyer -- shiver.... what a mean thing to say!

Then again, to go after the scum bag I will need to have the killer instinct of a starving pack of wolves around a pound of hamburger.

 

[bearhawk]

I think this is the time to mark this as a "Learning Experience" and move on.

We have all had them.

Some of us have actually spent a lot more to learn a simpler lesson.

 

[tallyho8]

To help prevent this type of infraction in the future, you must further complicate your lease by adding phrases such as these in red:

Lessee agree to pay a total of $600 prior to the commencement of the lease plus an additional $600 per person that lessee allows on lease during the period of this lease.

Lessee further agrees: That if proceedings must be taken to collect amount due from lessee, then lessee agrees to pay for all attorney's fees and court costs involved.

And regardless of the releases that you have them sign, proper insurance is mandatory.

Any other issues that may bother you need to be included in the lease also with the penalty for doing so clearly spelled out. (building tree stands, littering, hunting other game, etc.)

 

[Tororider]

JB,
Keep us updated as to what you plan to go forward with.

Seems like it is probably the last time you lease your land to someone other than family close friends, and me for guiding hunts next year of course.

 

[rox]

I think I would take an entirely different approach. Hmmm he is the one hustling to find customers, hmmm he has the social and sales skills to get people to pay him money to hunt. I think what I would do is not sue him at all, I think I would jsut go in business with him. Why make him your enemy? Make him your partner. You have the product he desires the land and game on it. You know in business pride is a terrible thing to have. Don't let your pride in in the way of a good deal for you.

I HATE my old mill, really hate the manager. However my current mill was NOT pressing my Bouteillan olives into the quality of oil I insist on. Soooooooooooo I swallowed my pride, showed up at my old mill and got my Bouteillan olives pressed there. Trust me it was really really hard to bring my olives to our old mill, but I wnated the best quality so I did it. Bottom line in business focus on making money. Instead of suing this guy I would suck it up and go into business with him.

 

[Skerby]

can you put a propane cannon (orchard tool ) out there to scare the game and piss off his clients? is it an exclusive? can you sell land use to others as well? or let 4x4 atvs in there to make it unsuitable for game hunters?

 

[john_bud]

In my state, the amount recoverable in small-claims court is limited to actual damages incurred. Anything beyond that goes to district court, and will probably require a lawyer to be involved. I just cannot see the amounts involved justifying the legal expenses, and I am pretty sure that is what the lawyers will tell you as well. You also need to consider how much personal energy and angst you are willing to invest in this beyond what you already have.

Personally, I would take it as a lesson learned, and walk away a little wiser for the experience.

Best of luck with whatever you decide.

S1

He made $22,600 off of hunters on my land that I know of, while paying me $600. Each hunter in bow season paid $1300. Each in gun paid 2x that.

Even if actual damages are $600 per hunter (lease was for ONE person at $600), I'm looking at a $10,800 recovery. That is well past the point of getting my attention. Maybe not yours, but mine for sure.

I wouldn't get in bed with that scum sucking @&*%$!!. The conservation wardens are on his case for numerous violations. That is not something I want to be party to.

From what I have gathered, in Contract law there are 2 types of breach, efficient and opportunistic. An efficient breach is one where both parties are enriched (or not harmed) by the breach and recovery is limited to actual damages. ex. You leave your apartment, but bring a new person in and the owner does not lose any rent at all. You are only liable for actual damages to the apartment, etc. An opportunistic breach is where one party is disadvantaged by the other, typically by fraud and punitive damages can be imposed to punish the breaching behavior. ex. You rent a pool for a family gathering of no more than 10 people, but have a party with 3000 people each paying $5 cover, have a band, sell booze, etc. Actual damages + punitive damages can be apply.

I will be talking to a lawyer shortly.

By the way, I spoke to the conservation warden today. He played me parts of the interview with the scum. He is a good liar, I have to give him his due.

jb

 

[EddieWalker]

How many hunters were on your land? I'm guessing it was around a dozen. Do you have any idea of how many deer were taken? Was that dollar amount based on hunters he had on your land, or did he put them on different properties?

Some outfitters, and I use that term loosely, will move a hunter from one property to another depending on whether they are seeing animals there, or not. If it's slow at one place, they go to another. Typically most hunts last a week, but some are just for a few days. Either way, where was he putting them up for the night? Does he have a lodge or did they have to stay in hotels? Just wondering about his assets, or if he has any?

It is 80 acres right? With a dozen hunters on 80 acres, I'd be concerned that he shot it out and you're out fo animals for awhile now. There could be some long term damages that you might try to bring up if this is the case. Over hunting the land and it's long term, or future earning potential to you the land owner.

Eddie